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DeathlessDraich
17-01-2007, 17:20
This was in the 6th Ed, either in the rulebook or in Chronicles somewhere.

Units had LOS through an intervening abandoned Warmachine and could also move through them without penalties.

Is this still true in the 7th? I can't find the relevant rules.

Thanks in advance

ewar
18-01-2007, 15:42
Good question. I can't find it explicitly in the book, but always play that they do NOT block LOS or movement - if all the crew are dead and there are no other possible replacements I always ask an opponent to take it off the battlefield, saves any confusion!

Anyone else got confirmation of this though?

greenskin
18-01-2007, 17:04
As a player of Frenzied troops, I wish that were true. I've had to charge an unattended war machine with three Frenzied chariots!

DeathlessDraich
21-01-2007, 14:00
What are the rules for LOS and movement through an abandoned warmachine?
Is someone going to attempt to answer this, please? :p

Yellow Commissar
21-01-2007, 14:24
It's undefined in 7th edition. I would probably use the standard LOS rules. You are going to have to agree with your opponent how you both wish to play it. The 6th edition FAQ could be a good guide, but doesn't technicaly apply. I, for one, would be happy to play that way, but it's not the rules.

debruce
21-01-2007, 19:09
Dont you remove an abandonded warmachine anyway?

alextroy
21-01-2007, 19:18
No. A warmachine has to be destroyed by shooting or close combat before it is destroyed.

As to the orginal question, there is no rule stating that warmachines do not block LOS or prevent movement. They therefore block LOS and movement just like every other model.

Briohmar
21-01-2007, 19:46
As a player of Frenzied troops, I wish that were true. I've had to charge an unattended war machine with three Frenzied chariots!

That does present an interesting dilema, is an abandoned warmachine an enemy unit still, or is it merely an immobile terrain terrain piece that still happens to belong to the other player. I do not feel that frenzied troops should have to charge it, because it is no longer a unit, it is merely terrain at that point, plus if the crew is gone you already get full points for it.

alextroy
21-01-2007, 20:54
You get Victory Point if the machine is not crewed at the end of the game. The crew could return or a different crew could move to it. Your frenzied troopers want to make sure that doesn't happen, so charge forth and smash the machine into little pieces.

T10
21-01-2007, 21:46
Indeed! The artillery piece is an enemy model.

Though not strictly by the rules, I usually remove artillery pieces without crew if there is no obvious chance of reclaiming them. I also prefer to mount them on bases so they exist in a clearly defined area.

Also we commonly treat the crew and artillery piece as a sort of skrimish unit, even though I can't recall if that, by the rules, is fact or simply conjecture. At any rate, it works.

-T10

sds661
22-01-2007, 05:38
I asked virtually the same question a week ago, with minimal response. The replies here seem to indicate there is a change from 6th to 7th ed.

In 6th Ed I believe an abandoned warmachine did not prevent me charging through it into combat with a unit behind. As I read it, in 7th Ed I need to charge the war machine, auto destroy it, and rely on my overrun carrying into a unit behind.

Does this interpretation seem correct?

DeathlessDraich
22-01-2007, 10:37
Thank you for the replies.
The question seems to be unresolved and hopefully will be addressed by an FAQ.

The only guidelines for LOS given by the rulebook for ambiguous cases is to try to establish LOS by moving a player's eye level to the tabletop. This doesn't really help because of the numerous gaps in a warmachine and a lack of a base. Few players adopt T10s method of adding a base

sds661: Charging the Warmachine and then overrunning effectively gives the charger added distance and an advantage. Perfectly legal

sulla
23-01-2007, 03:10
sds661: Charging the Warmachine and then overrunning effectively gives the charger added distance and an advantage. Perfectly legal

...and autodestroys the machine too. Good value if you ask me...

sds661
23-01-2007, 04:14
sds661: Charging the Warmachine and then overrunning effectively gives the charger added distance and an advantage.

Not necessarily, since the overrun is random.

Suppose my knights can charge 16", the warmachine is 4" away and my desired target is 14" away, directly behind the warmachine. Under 6th Ed I thought I could declare the 14" charge, effectively ignoring the warmachine. Under 7th Ed I am relying on rolling 10+' on 3d6 for my overrun of the warmachine, and the combat won't be resolved until the next combat phase (unless the target is already engaged in an unresolved combat this turn).

But the situation I actually faced last battle was as you said. I didn't quite have the move to reach my desired target, but by overrunning the warmachine I got there. My opponent was initially doubtful of the manouvre but he accepted it in the end.

DeathlessDraich
23-01-2007, 08:41
True. There'll be no advantage for flyers as well.