PDA

View Full Version : Grey Knigts Geneseed



Marinox
17-01-2007, 18:39
I'm sitting here at work bored out of my skull and i was wondering who the Geneseed for the Grey Knights is. i don't remember reading it in the codex, so i apologize if i've simply forgotten.

can anyone help me out?

Khornies & milk
17-01-2007, 19:23
I'm sitting here at work bored out of my skull and i was wondering who the Geneseed for the Grey Knights is. i don't remember reading it in the codex, so i apologize if i've simply forgotten.

can anyone help me out?

Sure can!
GK's were founded on the orders of the Emperor, before the Second Founding.
The Geneseed is a mix of 8 loyal Space Marines from the Traitor Legions.
Their courage, loyalty, and strength of mind were beyond question.

Like the Ghostbusters, thet had great Paranormal skills:D

Look up Wiki - under Grey Knights. there is loads of great useful info in there.

cheers:)

Daemonslave
17-01-2007, 19:26
No one knows for sure. Many theories have been posted about their origin, such as them being a missing Legion or believing them to have geneseed from the Emperor but I don't like those.

What has been implied in the recent Heresy visions books is that they were founded from the loyalist marines that came from the Traitor legions (i.e. those that escaped aboard the Eisenstein) but, again, no one is sure.

TheSanityAssassin
17-01-2007, 23:15
I like the Eisenstein theory....

Has there ever been any description of what they physically look like outside of their armour? That would probably be a good clue

Khaine's Messenger
18-01-2007, 02:20
It's simply not relevant. As far as some Grey Knights care, at least (per the GK books). It makes them Space Marines, but it doesn't make them any more than that, no matter what anyone says. Unlike other chapters, they don't make any claim to a particular psychological or physiological quirks passed down their gene-lines. Most of their quirks are part of their recruitment, training, operations protocols, indoctrination, equipment, and deployment. All of which are definitely non-standard.

Of course, if you really have to know and don't like the handwavy "that was all in a distant mythological past whose exact nature isn't really of consequence" answer, then right now the popular notion is as above--some of the loyalists from the traitor legions were given a place in the new order for the fact of what they were and the idea they represented.

downundercadet07
18-01-2007, 02:31
I'm not sure that their gene-line is non-unique, Khaine. Afterall, they have a silver carapace, and not a black one, as is standard for most space marines. Isn't that grown, like an organ and not implanted? If so, I would assume that it is a rather significant change in the gene coding.

Khaine's Messenger
18-01-2007, 02:41
Where does it say they have a "silver carapace"? They have a black carapace in Grey Knights, and nothing special is really made of it (other than that one of them got a hole blown in it before the book started).

downundercadet07
18-01-2007, 02:45
The wiki entry on them states that they have a metallic silver carapace, with various wards and other things naturally inscribed on it. I don't know where that comes from though, I have only read the Daemonhunters codex.

Khaine's Messenger
18-01-2007, 02:53
The wiki entry on them states that they have a metallic silver carapace, with various wards and other things naturally inscribed on it.

If that was on the wiki (which it isn't now, and no I didn't change it), it was most likely describing their armor. Which, again, incorporating a full aegis suite, is definitely non-standard and without real reference to their geneseed.

downundercadet07
18-01-2007, 02:57
Looking at it now, you are right, it isn't there. I saw it at lunchtime too. Hmm. Do you make anything of their desire to be brought back to Titan when dead instead of put in a dreadnought?

Khornies & milk
18-01-2007, 04:14
There is probably some thing in the Background(fluff) to suggest why they would rather go back to Titan, but in game terms DH would be right royally screwed...aw handicapped... without Dreads as a HS option.
LR's would be all that is available, and I do take them, but darn expensive.
So if it is the Grand Masters wish that they be interred in to Dreads, then they will have to come to terms with it, won't they.

cheers

Feor
18-01-2007, 05:12
Grey Knights Do gets Hexagrammic Wards tatooed into their skin in silver ink to better protect them form the psychic attacks of the warp spawned hosts they must fight. Game terms probably part of the Aegis.

And Grey Knights have no qualms about being intered in Dreadnoughts. A Marine in a dreadnought isn't dead, he's just so crtically wounded that he needs constant life support to stay alive. Marines who are actually dead (Not sorta dead, or mostly dead, but full fledged, go through their pockets for spare chage, all dead) wish to be retured to Titan to be buried in the Catacombs with their battle brothers and await the final battle when the Emperor will call them forth do destroy the forces of Chaos.

Also, don't trust anything you see in Wikipedia unless you can find another source for it. The fact that anyone can edit it means that all kinds of half truths (like the "silver carapace") and outright falsehoods can make their way onto their, only to be taken down in favour of something else equally suspect a day, week, or month later.

As to what the Grey Knights look like outside their armour, they apparently look like (Drumroll please...) Space Marines with silver tatoos. Nothing fancy, no albinos or fangs or all blonde or anything like that, just big, tough, muscular looking guys without any ribs.

Khornies & milk
18-01-2007, 05:48
I agree totally about Wiki, but it is one resource that people can peruse.
Likewise with the Codex, which just happens to be rather vague about the history of the GK as well. If they had of given a definitive to the Geneseed origins, ala Ultramarines as an example, then all these different theories wouldn't abound.
Me, I'm definitely not a 'Fluff-nut, don't mind a bit of it but it isn't a fetish.

cheers

Wazzahamma
18-01-2007, 06:16
Well, anything on wiki that you can trust will have citation supplied. If one is needed or missing, consider it suspect...though the 40k wikipedians do a good job of policing the articles against vandalism and fancruft (like the "silver carapace"). The majority of info there is correct.

Iceheart2112
18-01-2007, 08:02
I'm gonna have to side with the Eisenstein-ian marines being the beginning of the Grey Knights. It just sounds more-better-good that way!

BrainFireBob
18-01-2007, 08:41
I always preferred the custom-designed gene-seed concept, myself. Alpha-version: Original modified techno-warriors, perhaps represented by Custodes. Beta-test version: Space Marine.

Custom, graphic-interface model: Grey Knights

Feor
18-01-2007, 14:08
Custodes came about after the Space Marines, they took over for the Dark Angels as the Emperor's personal body guards at some point during the Great Crusade.

There's nothing special about the Grey Knights geneseed thoguh, so that doesn't really wash. It's just they are specifically trained and equipped for fighting the Daemonic. Theoretically any Space Marine Librarian could have been a Grey Knight, even with his own gene-seed.

Wazzahamma
18-01-2007, 22:21
Custodes predate the Astartes.

Noserenda
19-01-2007, 00:16
Custodes came about after the Space Marines, they took over for the Dark Angels as the Emperor's personal body guards at some point during the Great Crusade.



Sorry couldnt resist, this is a perfect example of stuff that gets into wikis...

Custodes predate marines and have mysterious origins :skull:

BrainFireBob
19-01-2007, 02:40
And the Grey Knights gene-seed is special- they're particularly resistant to daemons, and that's partially in their gene-seed.

Light of the Emperor
19-01-2007, 03:50
In regards to the Eisenstein theory, perhaps we may get some hints when the book comes out...
The marines aboard that vessel showed a resistance to chaos which would make them perfect candidates for Grey Knights. It is known that those marines dissapeared after the heresy and no one knows why. The Grey Knights were founded in great secrecy sometime thereafter so one could assume a link between the two.
The Eisenstein theory uses correlation between fluff. On the other hand, the fluff that states "A portion of the Grey Knight geneseed is rumored to come from the Emperor himself" has actually been put into text. I just don't recall where though.
Again, perhaps Ben Counter might drop some hints should he write another GK book.

Feor
19-01-2007, 04:59
Sorry couldnt resist, this is a perfect example of stuff that gets into wikis...

Custodes predate marines and have mysterious origins :skull:

You guys sure? Cause I'm pretty certain I remember reading in the HH novels where one marine or another is talking about how the Dark Angels had served as the Emperor's personal Bodyguard on Terra and the first part of the crusades until the Custodes came along.

Zachariah
19-01-2007, 05:31
Please don't hold me to, or laugh at this... but, I believe I read somewhere that the Grey Knights gene-seed came from the emperors own flesh. Can't quite back it up though.

Feor
19-01-2007, 05:50
The bit about them using the Emperor's own geneseed is right in Codex: Daemonhunter, pg. 6, near the end of the second paragraph. However, even there it's said that that was "said by some" which is fancy literature talk for "is a rumor." :p

BrainFireBob
19-01-2007, 06:51
You guys sure? Cause I'm pretty certain I remember reading in the HH novels where one marine or another is talking about how the Dark Angels had served as the Emperor's personal Bodyguard on Terra and the first part of the crusades until the Custodes came along.

No. I *think* you're thinking of the IA article, where the DA were the Emperor's original Praetorian and commanded by him personally in the Great Crusade until the Lion was found.

The Custodes existed before the DA- they may be immortal, or created according to the original methods for making marines (the Primarchs were used to speed-up the process via gene-seed, but if you've ever wondered, this is how their "old" followers were inducted into their legions when found, such as Kor Phaeron or Luther, they got Custodes treatment), but they were never numerous enough to be an army in their own right. They were always the Emperor's "personal guard."

Zachariah
19-01-2007, 08:39
Yep Feor, you're right... but, either way they might be my favorite SM chapter, if the Knights are even technically a chapter.

Grindgodgrind
19-01-2007, 10:35
I was of the opinion that the Grey Kinght's geneseed came from the Emperor himself.

Feor
19-01-2007, 14:12
The problem with Claiming that the Grey Knights use the Emperor's Geneseed is very simple: The Emperor wasn't a Space Marine.

Not a space marine means no Geneseed to harvest. ANd by the time the GreyKnights were created the technology to make new geneseed from the Emperor's genetic material would probably have been long lost.

Light of the Emperor
19-01-2007, 14:14
While the Emperor may not have the actual Geneseed "organ", he still could've included his own genetic DNA in the creation of the geneseed.

Alessander
20-01-2007, 02:21
Sorry couldnt resist, this is a perfect example of stuff that gets into wikis...

Custodes predate marines and have mysterious origins :skull:

Absolutely, I remember that fluff from a webpage about a fan-made chapter...

Feor
20-01-2007, 16:32
While the Emperor may not have the actual Geneseed "organ", he still could've included his own genetic DNA in the creation of the geneseed.

He did... for the primarchs. And to a lesser extent it filtered down to all the regular marines. But by the time the Grey Knights were founded the Emperor was on the Golden Throne and the infrastructure (and knowledge) needed to engineer brand new Geneseed would probably have been destroyed during the Siege of Terra.

Matt Stone
20-01-2007, 23:02
Realm of Chaos, Slaves to Darkness, page 247:

"The Grey Knights were a single Chapter created during an unregistered Founding shortly after the (official) Third Founding."

"They are listed as a Third Founding unit and, by the Emperor's instruction, were designated Chapter number 666."

"...by tradition their Chapter Master has always been an Inquisitor of the Ordo rather than a Space Marine."

Codex: Daemonhunters, page 6:

"Legend tells that it was around the time of the Second Founding that the Emperor ordered the creation of this secret Chapter of Space Marines."

"Where other Space Marine Chapters were created from the gene-seed of existing Chapters, the Grey Knights were unique in that their gene-seed was said by some to have come from the Emperor's own flesh."

"...and one of its Grand Masters is traditionally a member of the Inner Conclave of the Inquisition."

It's easy enough to see that even GW doesn't seem to know what the "real story" is, eh? :D Their original appearance in RoC:StD states one thing, and the recent codex pretty much scraps it all for another version of the story.

Ah, well... Whatever. In the end, I don't think we're meant to know where their gene-seed comes/came from, and I don't know that it matters in the big picture, anyway...

Noserenda
21-01-2007, 02:49
No. I *think* you're thinking of the IA article, where the DA were the Emperor's original Praetorian and commanded by him personally in the Great Crusade until the Lion was found.



Just read the Dark Angels IA, and no mention of them being the Emperors praetorians...

As for the Grey knights? Id guess the loyalists from the traitor legions, theyve got the will, and theyve dodged some temptation, and theyre hardly going to be welcomed anywhere under their current colours are they...

BrainFireBob
21-01-2007, 02:53
It wasn't in the DA IA? I need to go through my old WDs, then. I know the reference is somewhere in there.

Matt Stone
21-01-2007, 04:05
Just read the Dark Angels IA, and no mention of them being the Emperors praetorians...

From Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader, page 138:

"The celebration of the Feast of Malediction by the Dark Angels Chapter of Space Marines... The Feast celebrates the founding of the Chapter by Lyyn Elgonsen at the beginning of the Imperial Crusades almost ten thousand years ago. The Dark Angels are honoured as the first Marine Chapter. They were founded by the Emperor at a time when he still lived in the conventional sense. Within the Chapter the title of the Dark Angels' leader is Custodian, an honour which acknowledges the Emperor as the Chapter's true leader."

This is the only citation I've ever seen for a direct relation between the Emperor and the DAs. I don't own

From Index Astartes, page 18:

"The true origins of the first founding Chapters are intrinsically tied up with the birth of the Imperium and the legendary times when the divine Emperor still walked among men... The Dark Angels have the honour of being the first Space Marine Legion, created by the Emperor to fight in his Great Crusade to liberate the human race from aliens and the dominion of dark gods."

Plenty of cites for being the first legion/chapter, but nothing that I have ever seen calling them the Emperor's praetorian guard... Can anyone provide an actual reference for this?


As for the Grey knights? Id guess the loyalists from the traitor legions, theyve got the will, and theyve dodged some temptation, and theyre hardly going to be welcomed anywhere under their current colours are they...

Unless all the loyalists from the Eisenstein were also potent psykers capable of resisting influence by warp entities (resisting the temptation to rebel doesn't necessarily equate to the same thing - Luthor's "fall" was one of thought and belief, not physical/psychic corruption), they'd hardly meet the basic entry criteria, would they?

Feor
21-01-2007, 04:30
Assuming that the first generation of Grey Knights were all Psykers with a heavy resistance to corruption by the warp. Those particular qualities are both rather obvious for a force that will continually battling the Daemonic, but that doesn't mean that they went out and rounded up 1000(+ gotta allow for geneseed rejection) children with those characteristics and immediatly started training them.

More likely the first batch of Grey Knights were run of the mill marines, and the Grey Knights, over hte past 10,000 years have evolved into what they are today.

Noserenda
21-01-2007, 07:09
Exactly, with their close links to the Inquisition the Grey knights probably have their pick of the black ships to recruit from. But as i understand it Grey Knights arent powerful Psykers, but strong willed less potent ones who work in concert to produce effects comparable to a single potent battle psyker.

And in any case, the majority of their equipment and training does not necessarily require the user to be psychic.

Also, while the Eisenstein was a notable event, there may well have been other loyalists from the Traitor Legions around the galaxy, notably the Iron Warriors and to a lesser extent the Word bearers were prone to leaving men around the place, odds are a few of these groups may have remained loyal.

BrainFireBob
21-01-2007, 08:35
Flat out in the DH 'dex it says that each Grey Knight is a potent psyker in their own right- Nemesis force weapons and the Aegis are psychic equipment the Grey Knights maintain (ie, use, like psychic hoods) in addition to actually fighting. Plus, they're always calling the shrouding.