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northwoodDreamer
17-01-2007, 20:18
Ok, so I'm starting to like the idea of having a Treeman Ancient. My first question is, how feasible is this in a 2000 pts game? My second question is how do you equip one? Is it worth its cost? I don't know, I've never really tried anything like it before. All advice is appreciated.

RavenBloodwind
18-01-2007, 00:04
I've only been playing WE since the new release, this is my fairly new opinion:

Treeman Ancient relative to a Treeman costs you 40 extra points (325 vs 285) and a lord slot (both take a rare) for which you get +1 Ld (9 vs. 8) and the opportunity to buy up to 100 points of spites. Of the spites, only the dispel die, only get hit on 6's in challenge, and either shooty or melee attacks are meaningful. The others are 'cause terror' (which he already does) and 'make attacks magical' (which they already are).

I personally haven't found much use for the ancient over the plain treeman. In 2,000 pts I usually prefer a forest lord or lord-level spell caster, a BSB, a branchwraith (for the dispel-die spite) and maybe a 4th character (usually an alter noble but sometimes another level 2 mage). The only real time to take the ancient is if you're taking an all forest spirit army.

When I take the Ancient I'm too tempted to take too many spites (which rarely recoup their points) and end up with a 425 point treeman that I could have gotten for 285. That 140 pts is another glade guard, glade rider or dryad unit any of which is more utility than +1 Ld and 100 points of spites.

lokigod
18-01-2007, 06:40
Totaly agree with raven. Although he could make a mean anvil if you use eternal guard also with a battle standad noble. Although then you would not have alot points for the really cool stuff like waywatchers, wardancers, wild riders, etc.

Your Mum Rang
18-01-2007, 09:50
An Ancient is a beast! Able to go toe to toe with the toughest characters that are out there (so long as you have Annoyance of Netlings). He's a great anvil and lends a lot to the Wood Elf army.

You have to base the army around him though but I don't see him as a 300+ point characters but a 40-odd point character.

Someone I know has the rule that if you have a Treeman and a free Lord slot, then make him an Ancient!

DeathlessDraich
18-01-2007, 11:05
Interesting, I've always rejected the Ancient in favour of a Highborn but thats because I like shooting.

Reinnon
18-01-2007, 13:59
there is one reason to take a ancient over a normal treeman, and that is spites.

give him netlings and BAM, you have perhaps the finest unit in the wood elf list

Negativemoney
18-01-2007, 15:41
The fact that for the cost of a Treeman + 90 points you have a character that now costs 415 points that can easily take down 600+ point daemons and other heavy hitting characters. Remember 2 things though first you need to get yourself in a possition where you are able to make a challenge. Second you need to keep him away from war machines.

From playing against WE with DL and Chaos Mortals I can safely say that the anchient is the bane of most armies that have or rely on powerful characters.

brimmstorm
18-01-2007, 20:11
The fact that you can challenge with the Ancient is what makes him great. I've taken one in all my games and he is a total monster. Killing many a general and i'm very hesistant to give him up for another lord choice. I always take annoyance, and radiants on mine, and sometimes murder if I have the points left.

-brimmstorm

Von Wibble
18-01-2007, 20:23
Interesting - I think the challenge is a disadvantage for the ancient. To easy to save models from being killed by accepting with a champion and thus maintaining +5 cr.

It is very easy to tie him up fighting a unit that won't ever lose in combat against him and costs a lot less points. Any unit with a full rank bonus will do this. Since you need 5 kills not to lose a combat its looking bad when fighting a unit of 30 goblins!

Therefore your 400pt model needs support. Too many points tied up in one place - not very wood elf like imo.

Personally I feel that the more flexible highborn, and more defensive spellweaver are better options. Highborn allows shooting as well as decent combat and better manouverability. Spellweaver can provide crucial magic defense in addition to the obvious offense. Both are cheaper options so a unit or 2 can also be bought.

god octo
18-01-2007, 21:49
An Ancient is a beast! Able to go toe to toe with the toughest characters that are out there (so long as you have Annoyance of Netlings). He's a great anvil and lends a lot to the Wood Elf army.

You have to base the army around him though but I don't see him as a 300+ point characters but a 40-odd point character.

Someone I know has the rule that if you have a Treeman and a free Lord slot, then make him an Ancient!

Thats exactly waht i think! For the few extra points, you do get quite a few bonuses- another treesinging bound spell, +1 LD, access to spites and a truely terrifying Lord. If you want a treeman, but you also want a fighty character, i would pick him, as he is a good combination of both. He may be a bit expensive, but then again, he is a Treeman and a Lord in 1.

rockforchumps
20-01-2007, 16:53
Ancients should always have Annoyance of Netlings. If you're worried about magic, then also give them A Cluster of Radiants.

mightygnoblar
21-01-2007, 00:02
I like ancients but only really for all spirit lists to give the exta treesing and leadership

lokigod
21-01-2007, 08:24
hmm I guess I need to be more specific on why he can suck.....

1. Flaming owns him period(dwarf bolt thrower anyone 1 shot kill its happened)
2. I have had a giant take my treeman out so im sure it same with the ancient... head but just sucks along with other attacks.
3. lord and rare slot.... treeman and lord will be alot more flexiable.
4. He requires a certain list to do well.
5. your missing out on a lvl 4 caster...