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Davec_barbarian
17-01-2007, 22:51
ok, this is question i really hate to ask, but there are some problem below

The fuse fizzles and the gun fails to fire.It takes a complete turn to replace the shell, so the Mortar cannot shoot this turn or next turn.

the problem is '...cannot shoot this turn or next turn'

does it mean, this turn and next turn? :rolleyes:

Atrahasis
17-01-2007, 22:59
No.

If it said "cannot shoot this turn and next turn" it would mean the mortar could do one or the other. It can't.

Axel
17-01-2007, 23:45
It takes this turn and the next to clear the mortar, so you cannot fire this turn AND next turn.

JonnyTHM
17-01-2007, 23:46
To clarify what Atrahasis is saying (though he is quite definitely correct).

The problem is that you're reading the rule as "it cannot shoot this turn or it cannot shoot next turn" (we'll call this A), when the rule is "it cannot shoot this turn or next turn"(call this one B)

If you want to rewrite A in terms of "and" it's equivalent to "it cannot shoot this turn and next turn" (as in, it can't shoot both, but one or the other is just fine" while B in terms of "and" is equivalent to "it cannot shoot this turn and it cannot shoot next turn".

In summary:
The rule is correct as written. There is always a way to write a statement that uses 'or' using 'and' instead, and so there is never a need to appeal to the other for the correct statement. You're just putting the emphasis on 'cannot' as if it were applying to each term individually when it applies to "this turn or next turn".

Logical breakdown: we'll call C = shoot this turn D = shoot next turn, ' = negation, v = or, x = and

(C v D)' = C' x D'
(by De Morgan's Law)

...

And people always said taking two courses in formal logic in university was useless...

Atrahasis
17-01-2007, 23:55
And people always said taking two courses in formal logic in university was useless...I loved my logic courses at University, and the world would be a better place if more people took them.

blahblahblah
18-01-2007, 00:20
LOL just when I thought I would never see that stuff again it pops up here of all places! :)

T10
18-01-2007, 07:05
does it mean, this turn and next turn? :rolleyes:

(Though already answered above...)

It means:

Cannot shoot this turn.
Cannot shoot next turn.

-T10

DeathlessDraich
18-01-2007, 08:06
(C v D)' = C' x D'
(by De Morgan's Law)


*De Morgan's theorem is not part of Warhammer rules. :D

Applying that theorem in both ways
Not shoot this turn OR next turn = Not shoot this turn AND not shoot next turn

Not shoot this turn AND next turn = Not shoot this turn OR not shoot next turn.

*However most people would transpose the AND statements to AND as well and as far as Warhammer is concerned why not? Warhammer logic is not a subset of mathematical logic:p

Davec_barbarian
18-01-2007, 22:54
thanks for all the guys above for replies, i knew exactly what the answer is.
just some idiot local player can't see the logic about the misfire chart.

well, we aren't english speakers after all, some this kind stuff just has ask here to make sure. :p