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Reinnon
21-01-2007, 21:41
Hello all

a question.... what happens if i hit the steam tank with the spirit sword? The argument "the steam tank doesn't have wounds" no longer applies

however, the steam tank lacks a LD value, bar the engineer who has LD 10 (the highest LD in the empire army outside of SC incidently).

so, do we consider the steam tank as having LD 10 or 0? as strictly speaking you don't hit the engineer.

also, if the steam tank has LD 0 or -... can it even be effected by the spirit sword?

fluff would say no, but yet again the rules don't always follow the fluff

T10
21-01-2007, 21:47
You use the Ld value of the Engineer in the same manner as you would use the Ld value of a chariot's crew.

-T10

vampires are cool!
21-01-2007, 21:50
Agree with T10, you'd use the LD of the engeneer as its the models only LD.

Rivlo
22-01-2007, 04:09
Is there not a rule for the steam tank that say's it passes any and all stat tests except for initiative, for which you use the Engineers? If this doesn't apply to the Spirit Sword (I remember it being rolling dice or sommat), then one would assume you would use the Engineers leadership, as you would use the engineers initiative.

T10
22-01-2007, 07:34
It is not so much a characteristics test as a rules mechanic based on the Ld value of the models involved.

-T10

Dspankdo
22-01-2007, 07:40
Don't know if this is the right place to post this but I just realized that the steamtank can't be killed by that brettonian virtue as it's a warmachine and they cannot be killing blowed.

Atrahasis
22-01-2007, 07:57
It is not so much a characteristics test as a rules mechanic based on the Ld value of the models involved.I deliberately avoided posting here so as not to open the "what is a characteristic test?" can of worms of yore. I'm putting the can opener away now.


Don't know if this is the right place to post this but I just realized that the steamtank can't be killed by that brettonian virtue as it's a warmachine and they cannot be killing blowed.

Why not? Neither the rules for KB or for war machines specify any immunity as far as I am aware.

damiengore
22-01-2007, 10:55
KB only works on models with a US of 1 or 2, STank is US 10.

DeathlessDraich
22-01-2007, 11:21
damiengore: Virtue of Heroism grants Killing blow to Large Targets. Therefore it could destroy a Steam Tank.

Spirit Sword - the rules do not include the word 'test' therefore it will affect the Steam Tank as T10 mentioned and so will the Casket and Banshee.

Avian
22-01-2007, 11:49
Yep. Though of course the Tank has the same Ld as a Wood Elf Lord and more Wounds, so it's not really a very good trick to use.

Atrahasis
22-01-2007, 11:54
so will the Casket and Banshee.The Light of Death is a spell with no Strength, so will not affect the Tank, while the banshee will.

jullevi
22-01-2007, 12:17
The Light of Death is a spell with no Strength, so will not affect the Tank, while the banshee will.

Banshees will not affect STANK either, because it is Immune to Psychology.

Atrahasis
22-01-2007, 12:36
Banshees will not affect STANK either, because it is Immune to Psychology.

Good point.

Reinnon
22-01-2007, 16:21
ok, thanks for the answer

Jester007
23-01-2007, 02:42
damiengore: Virtue of Heroism grants Killing blow to Large Targets. Therefore it could destroy a Steam Tank.


The rules for killing blow specifically state that if you target a model riding a chariot or monster, the mount and chariot are immune to the killing blow effect. Now, being that the Steam Tank is a large target, it also has the effects similar to that of a chariot. So I would have to say that killing blow would not work.

Someone that tries to use the Bretonnian virtue in that manner needs to be smacked at the very least. To me killing blow is meant to target things with determinable anatomies. So things like Bone Giants, Shaggoths, Dragons, etc that is or was living and breathing are all susceptible to the special killing blow rules against large targets.

That's all I've got to say on this subject. I imagine people will be arguing and debating over this situation until GW comes out with a FAQ on it. Catch you guys later.

Got Squig?

Negativemoney
23-01-2007, 03:10
KB from the virtue of heroism does make sense when it comes to a steam tank as there are many ways a Bretonian Lord can exploit the weaknesses in a Steam Tank. Saying that it doesn't work just because its no a living breathing machine is silly at best.

DeathlessDraich
23-01-2007, 08:44
Negativemoney, I think Jester007 is just winding us up - hence his name.:D

sulla
23-01-2007, 10:03
Someone that tries to use the Bretonnian virtue in that manner needs to be smacked at the very least. To me killing blow is meant to target things with determinable anatomies. So things like Bone Giants, Shaggoths, Dragons, etc that is or was living and breathing are all susceptible to the special killing blow rules against large targets.



Gotta love a guy who's argument would mean vampires are immune to killing blow... and since when are bone giants living or breathing?

If you can target the heart of a dragon through it's armoured scales you can target the boiler of a steam tank IMO.

Revlid
23-01-2007, 10:24
Gotta love a guy who's argument would mean vampires are immune to killing blow... and since when are bone giants living or breathing?

Note:
"determinable anatomies"
"that is or was living and breathing"

Emphasis mine.

Jester007
23-01-2007, 19:13
Thanks Revlid, even when you do admit to the point I was making. And thanks for not reading my post completely sulla so that Revlid could make the post he did =)

Got Squig?

Atrahasis
23-01-2007, 21:29
Thanks for telling us how you think the rules should work. However, that isn't how they work, and KB is perfectly legal against the Steam Tank.

Jester007
24-01-2007, 02:30
As you stated in another thread of the moonstone.... what's stopping me from shooting you in your shooting phase there Atrahasis. I believe this is where you say "Touche"

You're probably one of those guys that would use the horrible rule of the warp lighting cannon having to flee as a charge reaction no matter the source of the charge. Like a unit of dwarf warriors declaring a charge on turn 1 against the cannon causing the cannon to flee off the board because it has to run. There's another one of your C Lawyer interpretations of your rules.

Got Squig?

Atrahasis
24-01-2007, 03:20
You're probably one of those guys that would use the horrible rule of the warp lighting cannon having to flee as a charge reaction no matter the source of the charge. Like a unit of dwarf warriors declaring a charge on turn 1 against the cannon causing the cannon to flee off the board because it has to run. There's another one of your C Lawyer interpretations of your rules.You couldn't be more wrong. Its becoming a habit.

sulla
24-01-2007, 04:46
Thanks Revlid, even when you do admit to the point I was making. And thanks for not reading my post completely sulla so that Revlid could make the post he did =)



Fair enough, I'll put my hand up and admit to misreading your post. Mea culpa. I will however point out that your statement is still flawed. Bone giants are undead constructs and as such, were never living... nor do they have determinable anatomies.

The rule applies because they are large targets, not because of their background...

;)

Jester007
24-01-2007, 23:15
A construct is usually made from parts of similar things that are meshed together. So a bone giant could be a bunch of smaller skeletons put together to make a bigger one.

sulla
25-01-2007, 02:32
A construct is usually made from parts of similar things that are meshed together. So a bone giant could be a bunch of smaller skeletons put together to make a bigger one.

? So what's your point? How does that apply to bret's killing blow?

Reinnon
25-01-2007, 07:43
ok... this thread has served its purposes i don't want it to go into the art of killing blowing (that sounds so wrong) something that isn't alive