View Full Version : Symetrical armies

Minos Engele
22-01-2007, 08:24
Everytime I'm thinking of new army lists I can't help to alway's take two or 3 of the same Unit/Vehicle. And I'm not talking about "almost" the same setup, no 2 or three EXACT same units. It's not that I really mind it but sometimes it get's a bit boring but it doesn't feel right if I take different squads with different weapon loud-outs.
I'm also not talking about min-maxed squads, I hate them. I'm talking about 8 Chaos Space Marines with 2 plasma's and an Aspiring Champ with Pfist in a rhino. That sort of stuff.

Are there more people with this kind of problem?

22-01-2007, 08:31
I don't view it as a problem, but a good tactic. Compound your sins; if a unit type works for you, why change for something else?

I don't always do it, depending on what army it is, but more often than not i will take duplicates of what i view as 'utility' units.


Rabid Bunny 666
22-01-2007, 08:32
I know, i seem to get that when i write out lists.

Its not a problem, why take one unit that people seem to like when you can use tried and tested units?

22-01-2007, 08:35
I allways field ten squads of guardsmen, 5 with grenade launchers/missile launchers and 5 with grenade launchers/autocannons, but i guess that's not what you've been asking for.
I don't see any problem if you field 6/7(or 9/10) mechanized csm squads. It IMO gets boring if you max out on nobrainer choices, like oblits or asscannon landspeeders, plus it's more fluffy IMO to have most of a csm force be csm.

Easy E
22-01-2007, 08:44
It's not a problem at all. The best way to keep one unit alive is to duplicate it. The more of it there is, the harder that key unit is to take out.

It also makes army list building easier if you are doing it the old pen and paper way.

Partisan Rimmo
22-01-2007, 08:45
Minos Engele I have EXACTLY the same problem you do. It's starting to worry me a bit. I feel as though I'm limiting myself. I'll be very interested as to if anyone has any solutions.

22-01-2007, 08:55
I don't see a problem with it highly organized armies like marines and IG, or chaos marines. Even Tyranids are "programmed" for the situation, so they might be more organized than not. Necrons don't really have any options and so are necessarily organized this way; Tau as well. The one army I hate to see with a bunch of cookie cutter units is Orks. Orks have to be the ramshackle thrown together army of them all. For example:
Warboss with X stuff.
13 slugga boyz: nob with PK & choppa, 3x RL.
13 slugga boyz: nob with PK & choppa, 3x RL.
13 slugga boyz: nob with PK & choppa, 3x RL.
13 slugga boyz: nob with PK & choppa, 3x RL.
Just doesn't seem right for Orks to be so organized. I go with similar units instead, but always include a variety of them: Flash Gitz with big shootas & shoota boyz with big shoota; slugga boyz with rokkit launchas & tankbustas with rokkit launchas. This makes them at least a bit different, yet they still fill similar roles.

Just my opinion on Orks(excepting those humie wannabee Bloodaxes;)). Most other armies probably should be more organized.

22-01-2007, 09:08
Try Eldar. Fat chance you won't do it there.

I do the same with my marines and tyranids, but that because in both cases there are very good alround choices that you might as well take dozens of.
With my thousand sons, IG and Eldar I always have to think what I'll bring, because there isn't one unit that does it all.

Though I love two demolishers....

22-01-2007, 09:12
I guess I got the same "problem" with my tyranids.
Identical squads of Genestealers/Termagaunts, identical Zoanthropes.
Identical Biovores, identical lictors, and the list goes on.

22-01-2007, 09:28
So I'm not the only one!

I'm weird though - I don't like to have an odd number of duplicated units. I like having two rhino squads. I like having four rhino squads. But three rhino squads grates unless the 3rd is somehow different from the first two.

The only place I'm really attached to stereotyped squads is in my Troops choices though. Other slots can be unique.

22-01-2007, 09:42
With my thousand sons, IG and Eldar I always have to think what I'll bring, because there isn't one unit that does it all.

I concur, although I took two identical Wraithlords back in 3rd ed. - Starcannons ho!

22-01-2007, 10:03
My Vostroyans have platoons of identical squads. More than anything I do this to fill a specific role with any one force selection.

22-01-2007, 10:33
I am the exact opposite. i want one of everything. I can't stand the monotony of painting multiple units exactly the same.

22-01-2007, 10:40
My long time DE army is quite the same

1 Archon
1 Drachon
2 Units of wyches
4 units of warriors
2 Ravagers

With DE it's understandable. They have very few units that work, so you will always end up with more than one of a choice. Same with Necrons

22-01-2007, 11:21
My Alpha Legion are probably the best example - every single unit in my 1500pt army had an identical backup, including the two HQs, a pair of lieutenants.

My Tyranids were pretty bad in that repect as well, everything was duplicated bar the two Hive Tyrants, but that's only because winged ones are a 0-1 choice.

Oh, and the next two armies I'm working on will have mucho duplication too, the only 'unique' squad in each of the lists being the HQ. Guess it's just the way some of us are wired when it comes to an army.

Still, not as monotonous as the "Asurmen, 35 Avengers, and 4 Grav-tanks" I was thinking of at one point :)

22-01-2007, 11:42
I think this is a symptom of the way you (and indeed I) build armies. You say that you think of an army list and it starts to happen, but thats because you are thinking of good all round units that you can tailor to be quite nasty when combined with x other units. If you do this you are bound to end up with duplicate units, as you have refined the first squad, and you can simply cut/paste a number of them - then repeat for the other units.

A different approach would be to buy models you like the look of/ like the background fluff of and go from there...this will result in a very different army.

I don't think it's a problem though, as by doing it your way you end up with a competitive list, and you know exactly what to buy so you save cash too.

22-01-2007, 14:29
i'm doing it the exact oposite way, i doesn't have a single identical unit in my alpha legion army, the closest is two squads that has 6 men and two spec weapons in them. This is beacause i hate multitasking (minus obliterators), 'cause when you shoots at one thing, then you're wasting some potential. And i also like to try something new, 5 infiltrating CSM with two meltas anyone?


22-01-2007, 14:57
I with you, OP. I always have redundancy in my lists, usually in the form of identical units.

Mostly because I have something I want to occur in my battle plan, and it's just too common for one squad to get shot up, tied up, broken, or what have you - then the other can carry out the task assigned to it.

Eldar is a noted exception, though - when I borrow my bro's eldar, I usually don't have any duplicated units at all.

22-01-2007, 15:40
Well, using multiples of the same unit does have one distinct advantage....

It's very easy to remember all the options on those squads

With my Tau, I always try to keep all my devilfish loadouts the same, for simplicity's sake ( Is this the fish with the target lock or was it that one?).

22-01-2007, 15:44
I like it, it makes things simple and just makes sense to me. But thats me!

22-01-2007, 16:05
Rules wise: If it's not broke, why fix it? The unit works, is probably fairly efficient for what you're trying to do, and you obviously like it. So fielding it in multiples isn't a bad thing. When I write Army lists I tend to get one or two "duplicate squads" that get repeated a couple times usually one anti-infantry and one anti-tank. Then just replicate them as needed. Save the fancy stuff for the real specialists.

Fluff Wise: Most soldiers get the same gear, from the same place. Does it make sense for the Administratum to custom tune every squad? With billions of troops, no it doesn't. They're going to say "If they're going tobe meant for cityfighting against infantry, give them a flamer. If they're meant for city fightiung against vehicles, give them a Melta." etc. for other goals. Then every squad will get that equipment.

22-01-2007, 16:14
I can see the problem:

Guy X uses las/plas/5 marines and finds it effective

Guy X tells Guy Y about the Combo. Guy Y starts using it

Guy Y tells Guy Z about it

And so on

This leads to armies that look the same (Im looking at you Eldar/Tau players with 3 hammerheads/prisms)

22-01-2007, 18:41
I use almost always identical units. But then again it is kinda hard to get much variety when you want to play a pure SoB force... You basicly have one viable option in each kind of unit.


22-01-2007, 18:56
I hate duplication! I don't want to clone my squads, if they have weapons options available I want to use as many as possible not stick with what is predictable (las/plas comes to mind).

I don't want my army to look like a phalanx of lifeless robots, if I did i'd play Necrons. No I think personally, the more character+variation within squads the better, changing poses is all well and good, but having different weapon loadouts across the board also makes for a more unpredictable, exciting affair.

22-01-2007, 18:59
In my 1000 points Tau list, I've got only one of every kind of units besides FW teams (3 of 6) and Crisis' (two lone suits) - one Stealth Team, one Drone Squadron, one Piranha, one Hammerhead... It keeps things interesting for me - I really don't like copy-and-paste lists, simply because they're boring when somebody uses only one choice for every unit type... Effective, yes, since you always have duplicates when one squad goes out, and it doesn't require learning so many units - but boring.

That said, when I'm going 1500 I plan to duplicate a few choices, but again - it's 1500 points, and I want my army to be coherent as well as at least a bit competentive ;).

@Carlos: You're one to talk, man... after posting that 6 Crisis Combat Patrol list of yours :p...

22-01-2007, 19:31
With Space Wolves, I have a hard time avoiding this. I'm trying to mix it up some, but the basic Grey Hunter squad, tricked out like mad, is just too much fun. I'm thinking about reconfiguring some as "assault" squads and some as "firefight" squads, which would change their kit noticeably, but at the moment I tend to like the "Bolter/CCW, melta, 2 PFs, 2 PPs, Rhino" mix. Expensive, though.

Tau are worse (obviously). You get a rifle:carbine ratio to mess with, a transport choice, and the option of upgrading the sargeant a bit (LD, drones, markerlight, target lock). I'm thinking of putting together a mechanized tau list that's infantry heavy, and it's basically 2 12-man FW squads in a fish, 1 ethereal w/ 11 bodyguards in a fish, and two 8-man pathfinder teams packing 3 rail rifles apiece in fish. My issue with this is that it looks incredibly symmetrical, and since there's options I like to have on vehicles, those are going to be identical too.

22-01-2007, 19:43
It's hard for me to do that with my eldar as I only have one squad of each aspect. Now, Guardians, I usually take two maximum sized defender squads, with a warlock and scatter laser. If not more - I do have close to 100 of them.

22-01-2007, 19:53
well its also relistic...even in the real army all the squads are supposed to be the same...except a special weapon squad . so three basic squads per one specialised one

[SD] Bob Plisskin
22-01-2007, 20:15
My lists always seem to have the core of the army as quite repetative - eg.

1. my khorne list has 3 squads of 8 zerkers with champ with pfist
2. my eldar have 3 squads of 6 jetbikes with 2 shurikencannons and 3 units of 2 dual shurikencannon vypers.
3. my marines have 2 squads of 6 marines w/ h.bolter mounted in h.bolter razorback with a similar Dev squad (only more h.bolters!).

The way I see it these parts are the core of my army, the main tactics I will be using revolve around this and everything else either compliments or covers weaknesses.

22-01-2007, 20:36
My Eldar have duplicated units in every FOC area save HQ. Two Dark Reapers, two scorpions, two vypers, three guardian squads, two Dire Avengers... in HQ I have two farseers, but these are equipped very differently.


The Good Doctor