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View Full Version : Do you like the new Empire statetroops?



dirach.
23-01-2007, 13:10
There have been much discussion but no poll. How do you like the new empire statetroops? Are they better than before or worse?

MadNinjaSkilz
23-01-2007, 14:04
I still like the halberdiers from 4th ed. I believe they capture the 'feel' of the Imperial soldier... grim, determined and faceless, marching to meet the enemies of the Empire
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i74/Joel-Michael/IMG_1268.jpg

Mephistofeles
23-01-2007, 14:05
I wouldn't go as far as to say that they are great, but they are way better than the last ones (and those god-awful fourth edition ones, seriously MadNinja Skilz, what's up with that fetish? :P)

Sentinel75
23-01-2007, 14:12
I like them, but not any more than the older ones. I like that I now have loads of varients now. I can mix and match new, old, and older and have a unique look.

jullevi
23-01-2007, 14:31
They are a lot better than the previous ones, but not even nearly as good as they could have been.

Pros:
-increased amount of detail
-armour and weapons look lot better than before
-enormous feathers and codpieces :D

Cons:
-every model in identical pose :wtf:
-some of the heads are very bad (but on the other hand, some are very good!)
-lack of poseability with weapon options
-decreased amount of puffy sleeves

Dr Death
23-01-2007, 14:34
I've gone with neither better nor worse. There are good points, there are bad but they at least provide an option and certainly that's worth releasing them for alone since if there is one thing to be said against the previous models it is that there wasnt that much variety (especially by modern standards). A combination of the two generations seems to work quite well to produce some very good looking models.

Dr Death

Lieutenant Frederic Henry
23-01-2007, 15:04
Anybody have any pics of combined "new and old" Empire State Troops?

Keller
23-01-2007, 15:39
I don't care much for the new models. I haven't seen them in person yet though, so I can't judge too harshly. I just hope the new Halberdiers are much more durible than the last set; I am always having to repair the halberd heads.

Dosadi
23-01-2007, 16:05
I voted Better, but only because they are an improvement over the last version. Those old regiment sets were halberd only (unless you were able to purchase those with the metal bitz from 4th/5th edition) and it took forever to assemble a unit of 20. I still like the models and would use them for Halberders as I think the new ones are best suited as swordsmen (they just arn't holding the pole right). The old spearmen and handgunners you got in the 6th edition box were pretty good for rank and file models and if you got a few sets you could have some pretty fat units.
The new handgunners are nice IMO, Sure the poses are all the same, but would you want your handgunners to not look like they were shooting?
So for me, a non-empire player who kinda wishes he was, they are nice and give you some variety to throw into the mix. A good looking empire army would have a nice mix of new and old state troops IMO.


Dosadi

Snotteef
23-01-2007, 17:14
I like the sculpts, but I HATE the new box. Now everytime I want more swordsman I am FORCED to buy more handgunner/crossbowmen?:mad:

Sure you get a little bit of a price break for those extra 10 guys, but I would MUCH rather pay the old price of $35 and get what I want than pay $45 and get 10 more useless models. I mean, how many handgunners to you really need? If you want an infantry heavy army, you'll be buying at least 4 boxes (probably 5 or 5), but I sure as heck will NEVER use 40 (or 50 or 60)handgunner/crossbowmen! Ugghh! Why couldn't they have been separate!?!

Cacodemon
23-01-2007, 17:32
You can always buy boxes of 10 state troops, so you don't have to get any missile units if you don't want to. No-one's forcing you to buy the Detachment box after all.

scarletsquig
23-01-2007, 17:55
My 60 well-painted 4th edition halberdiers (as shown above) above aren't going anyway anytime soon.

Still very nice figures, and "one pose to rule them all" never bothered me with massed warhammer regiments.

Plus, I bought them for 10p a figure :D

Crazy Harborc
23-01-2007, 18:03
As of a few days ago, the the "Special Detachment box" with 30 minies for $45(USD)......IS as long as supplies last/limited time ony.

Heck, I sold the part I didn't want. At least, on this side of the pond the oldstyle minies/boxes are still available. That was through/at the ol' local company store.

You can buy the "new improved" 10 minies enclosed for $22(USD) boxes. True, it will cost you a total of $44(USD) for only 20 minies instead of $45 for 30 minies. You can also buy the old versions 16/20 minies for $30/35 (USD).

No I haven't forgotten the new improved cav boxes of 5 minies instead of 8.

Yes, 22....IS less than 30/35. BUT at a higher item/unit cost. You actually pay more and get less. 20 foot can now be at least $9(USD) more for that 20 total.

75hastings69
23-01-2007, 18:37
I voted neither better or worse.

There are some nice details on the new ones, but the lack of posing possibilities (beyond cutting them to bits) and the awful mold lines ruin them for me.

skoogiz
23-01-2007, 19:46
I also got a soldier sprue with terrible mold lines but I really like the models. The only thing I’m not to pleased with is that they have taken away most of the puffy sleeves witch I loved.

Crazy Harborc
23-01-2007, 20:16
Yeah....I had to put a new blade in my modeling knife too. The lines did/do scrape off easily. The plastic really "likes" my Testor's poloystirene (spelling?) glue. Black and red for clothing and trappings. All kinds of colours for hats I am thinking. Crossbows will likely be a couple of shades of brown.

dirach.
23-01-2007, 20:38
My 60 well-painted 4th edition halberdiers (as shown above) above aren't going anyway anytime soon.


I have mixed them with some battle masters haleberdiers in a 36 man strong unit. Including metal comandgroup. I will never change them with new models.

Philhelm
23-01-2007, 21:12
I like them, but I do miss the puff 'n slash. I'm ecstatic that crossbowmen are once again state troops.

TKitch
24-01-2007, 05:15
I don't like *all* of the parts of the new box, but it's nice.

There's a lot of good features, and with a little chopping, you can make some really neat stuff. I'm building two boxes into two or three mordheim warbands. I'm waiting for a box of pistoliers to complete it for bits! :)

Poisonpen
24-01-2007, 05:32
Most people list the single body/legs as a negative, but I must say -after completing a regiment of halberdiers, I love it. Ranking infantry up has always bugged me, and single peice models make this much easier to handle. Also, the poses are more dynamic than the 'hey, I'm gonna' stand right here' thing they had going previously (though I could see how some liked the 'watchman' poses better).

I must agree though, some of the heads are ghastly! But I found a way around this: use outrider heads! This may not work for everyone, but since I am planning for a rather sizable collection of pistoliers, I will have many outrider heads left over. Since swordmen are suposed to be more well trained and all that rot I seek to employ their normal bodies with the more collected heads of the outriders to set them apart. Then I will use the better heads unused from that unit to add to my halberdiers and forego the use of the particularily bad heads (of which there are a few, but not too many).

Which brings up another pro, they are very interchangable in regards to other empire plastic bits. Lends to easier and fluid conversions. This is all just opinion though, and I could see how many would vote 'eww...' or 'meh.'

Bortus
24-01-2007, 05:52
Ok, this is the best view I've gad so far of these guys and what comes to mind is with all of the talent at GWs dispossal this is the best that they can come up with? It's not bad enough that they feel so compelled to introduce a stupid mechanical horse and a god aweful rocket launcher that they have to go and ruin the state troops as well! Please, GW from the bottom of my heart please, oh please don't screw up Chaos as well! I am primarily an O&G player but my Empire army is second so maybe I'm still a bit sore about the way they managed to mess up some of the O&G stuff (some of it is good but doesn't make up for the rest!) but when I thought about it I realized something, nope I'm not letting my feelings about the O&G army get in the way with the Empire changes, they're just plain bad! Peace N' Chicken Grease!!!

Capitán Sánchez
24-01-2007, 07:27
I really dislike them. I'd rather 5th/6th edition models.

I do not like that big feathers on them. They also seem to have lost some of their unit look by giving them that dynamic poses.

But if there's something I hate it's the new single body+legs models. I have converted a unit of mounted pistoliers using halberdiers torsos and Knightly Orders legs; I have seen nice zombies and pirates conversions using 5th/6th ed. miniatures, but now it is over.

Perhaps I am one of those little people who rather metal better than plastics, excepting for multipart models to convert. Now that it is impossible, I am not buying the new troops.


Thank you

Rotten
24-01-2007, 07:27
I really like the amount of detail and the overall higher standard of each individual piece. However, I hate the lack of poseability (or whatever it's called). A mix of the new ones and those from the 5th/6th edition would possibly have made the greatest State Troops ever.

There is one thing that have been tormenting me ever since I saw them for the first time though. How come the sculptors suddenly lost all knowledge of physics and combat technique? I mean, holding a halberd like that..? No freaking chance. Or carrying a banner in one hand high above your head? Oh dear... :rolleyes:

Arhalien
24-01-2007, 09:13
I think in some ways they look good (the more dynamic poses and the detail I;ve seen) but some of them can look a bit cartoony sometimes. However, the old ones were a tad on the dull side IMO. Wouldn;t call these better, but things need to move on, and these state troops have certainly done that.

Dr Death
24-01-2007, 14:03
The pose is one of the greatest improovements over the oldset that the new plastics have. the oldmodels really couldnt muster anything more than advancing in regards to aggressive posturing but whenever i look at the new swordsmen with their shields up and their swords poking over the top it just evokes the image of what state troops are about- discipline and grit.

Dr Death

Caligula
24-01-2007, 15:47
I think the new Empire State Troops are certainly better than their previous incarnation. That doesn't mean I think they're anything to really brag about though.

They're good enough, I suppose. I'd probably have a much more...concerned opinion if I was an Empire player, however. In the end I suppose Empire players are just happy to have miniatures with, at the very least, some sense of movement to them.

SonofUltramar
24-01-2007, 16:29
I went for neither better or worse as well and purely because i'm just glad for the variety? By the time i'm done with my new Hochland army it will include old metal models as well as plastics old and new. Lets face it with an army as numerous as the Empire a little bit of variety can do a world of good:)

Lieutenant Frederic Henry
24-01-2007, 18:40
I can see using myself the new state troops as front front rankers for my regiments made up of the older models, as I don't think every rank needs to look like it's fighting; only the one in the front. The new halberds(weapons, not soldiers) look great, but the designers seem to be emphasizing more the spear part of the weapon as opposed to the axe blade. Besides, with the obscene price of the new state troops, I can't see myself buying more than one or two boxes of them... I would hate to be a new Empire player, having to create a whole new army out of the current range of plastics. Seems absurdly expensive.
Cheers.

PS- Still waiting to see if anyone has any pictures of the new state troops mixed with parts from the old state troops...

truthsayer
24-01-2007, 19:31
Or carrying a banner in one hand high above your head? Oh dear... :rolleyes:

Mmm, I thought that, I used the standard from the missile troops set as the pole reaches the floor and looks like the guy would actually be able to hold it.

I quite like the models although i had to cut the collars off at the back on some of them as the heads all looked like they were looking at the floor.

zak
24-01-2007, 23:36
The new state troops have there disadvantages, but overall I think they did a good job. Some of the heads are a tad dodgey, but the sheer amount of extras more than make up for that so that each soldier is different from the next. It certainly makes painting them a bit more interesting.

Crazy Harborc
25-01-2007, 00:38
I'm finishing my first 10 as crossbows. All those goodies left over:( NOW if I can come up with some bodies and heads.......Saaaayyyeee I wonder how it would look to have somes HEs fixed up with Empire arms holding handguns?;)

Chicken Pig
25-01-2007, 11:18
I said better, but only just. The previous "Soldiers of the Empire" models were ok, but a bit lifeless and lacked the detail (especially on the bodies) of the new ones. The one with the gilded armour with Sigmar written on it is glorious. The issue of some of the new heads being a bit rubbish is easily overcome with heads off of the old kit (or even Imperial Guard/Bretonnian peasant or any relevant human head). That said, I still use 4th edition models for the halberdiers, with head swaps, just to give variation amongst the state troopers and to defeat the fact that the halberds on these models are again rather rubbish. I seem to have contradicted my vote here...

Athelassan
25-01-2007, 11:57
I said "worse than ever" although this shouldn't come as a surprise. The old state troops weren't the most exciting models ever sculpted, but it was possible to put together some decent looking units with a bit of imagination, and they did at least look like members of the homo genus rather than arthritic orangutans.

Consdering that GW are supposedly trying to make the look of the game more "gritty and realistic" the models are more cartoony than ever, except when it comes to the trademark frills and puff which are gone almost completely (but only on the state troops; those on the characters are bigger than before :confused: As has been mentioned, if you have a unit of more than ten it starts to look ridiculous that every rank is fighting, and they're holding their spears/halberds/banner poles in such a way they're more likely to drop them than kill someone.

And then we have the united body/legs issue, and the outrageous price, and so on.

Ath

Lordsaradain
25-01-2007, 12:52
I hate how some are barefoot! I mean comon! Bretonnian peasants arn't even barefoot.

Otherwise they are ok, the new sheilds are abit small, the standard pole to short, they dont have the classical ppuffy clothes anymore...

On the other hand the spaemen, halberdiers andhandgunners are much better than before in total though and have lots of nice details.

dirach.
25-01-2007, 13:30
I don't think that barefoot soldiers is rare in realworld history. Shoes were expencive. Many of the russian soldiers were barefoot during world war 2. Those who were first in front didn't need shoes for long.

szlachcic
25-01-2007, 14:01
I definitely think they are a vast improvement over the previous models. The detail on the models is crazy compared to the older ones. Unlike some of you I do like that they are one piece bodies since it helps putting them together and ensures that they rank up well. I would be upset if they were in a more static pose, but since the models are more dynamic it works really well.

My only big complaint about the new models are the damn mold lines. It has taken way too much time making sure I get all of the lines before assembly.

Petey
25-01-2007, 19:34
I've always wanted an empire state soldier with a Sallet and large plain metal breast plate. If they give me this, i ll make units of them.

Until then, my Empire force will remain a force of thieves and cutthroats living in the woods.

(i do like the new poses though)

bdickj
25-01-2007, 20:28
There is one thing that have been tormenting me ever since I saw them for the first time though. How come the sculptors suddenly lost all knowledge of physics and combat technique? I mean, holding a halberd like that..? No freaking chance. Or carrying a banner in one hand high above your head? Oh dear... :rolleyes:

This is because GW has gone to using a computer to do the sculpts, whereas older editions employed human sculptors. I wonder, now that they don't have to pay for sculptors, why haven't prices gone down? ;)

loveless
25-01-2007, 20:36
This is because GW has gone to using a computer to do the sculpts, whereas older editions employed human sculptors. I wonder, now that they don't have to pay for sculptors, why haven't prices gone down? ;)

...because now they have to pay for the artists that digitally sculpt...unless you mean that now they don't have to pay for sculpting putty...

anyway, as anyone who's read any of my posts could probably tell, i said that the new minis are better than before *nods*

blahblahblah
09-02-2007, 00:03
A little off topic, but I heard that the detachment boxes are sort of limited release, is that true?

dominic_carrillo
09-02-2007, 00:27
the new troops look very... foppish. almost like a bunch of nerds marching off to the renaissance fair.

vorac
09-02-2007, 01:20
the new models look as if there is a lot of in breeding in the empire :)

TKitch
09-02-2007, 01:43
A little off topic, but I heard that the detachment boxes are sort of limited release, is that true?

yes they are, and they're OOP already unless my store told me wrong.

Commodus Leitdorf
09-02-2007, 01:44
I think the new Models look fine. If anything they look more proper in many respects then the last ones. Most of em probably the youngest children of a large farmers family...probably 10th or 11th child with no real prospects at home, off in the army. Probably scarred and generally damaged by whatever diseases they may have contracted in there life leaving their scars on them, whether that be physical or mental. Joining the army cause its the only real alternative they have to ensure they get food and lodging....until there cut in two by an Orc Choppa that is.

However, due to the fact my Army is from Averland, I need my puffy sleaves! So I'll be sticking with the older models.

zodgrim
09-02-2007, 02:00
The new ones look a little ratty and unkept. They look more like militia than professional military state troops.

blahblahblah
09-02-2007, 15:47
:rolleyes: it figures that after being put off by the puffy sleeves years ago, I finally get an empire army in 6th edition and find myself quite attached to them. years agoo I wouldn't have thought I'd be disappointed to see them more or less without, but they looked more like the organized, disciplined force they're reckoned to be in the books, now they don't look much better than the militia. I see a lot of those heads taking up permanent residence in my bits box, while I ration out the extras I still have from 6th edition sets or from the new pistoliers box

*sigh* c'est la vie...:(

Crazy Harborc
10-02-2007, 02:22
IMHO, it seems that GW is going for a more "real world" look to the new breed of state troops. I prefer the movie versions......all shiney metal and leather with clean crisp AND fluffy uniforms. I'll be mixing in small units (10 each) of shooters. For now, there are NO plans for an influx of the "updated" spears or swords.

I do LIKE the improved outrider/pistoliers:evilgrin: Gonna see several units of those in my version of an Empire army.;)

Overt_Spy
10-02-2007, 06:38
I don't really care for the new state troops. I don't like how they don't have poofy sleeves. I can understand changing them, but now it looks like their wearing spandex (especially with that resculpted bulge), and lack of really any texture on their limbs (save a few coils on the arms and knee areas)a

I wish they had made alternate poses, the lurching-forward-Orc-like pose works for the first rank, but when all the other ranks are in the same pose it looks weird, like their all in perfect unison when they move. I would have them rather made them like the previous edition spearmen, with the first two ranks in an agressive pose, and the supporting ranks in a more at ease stance. Just looked more like a real unit of soldiers.

I like how they have more detail and vare.riation of armor and doo-dads, but overall, I liked the previous versions mo'

dominic_carrillo
10-02-2007, 06:59
the feathers sort of turned me away most of all. what kind of gay bird would have feathers like that?!?!?

nakai
10-02-2007, 10:38
Well the thing is I will not buy the new figures, because they are "nicer" or more beautiful. It's still most important how you paint them. And If your army looks generally bad painted. It doesn't matter at all.

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Festus
10-02-2007, 12:22
There is one thing that have been tormenting me ever since I saw them for the first time though. How come the sculptors suddenly lost all knowledge of physics and combat technique? I mean, holding a halberd like that..? No freaking chance. Or carrying a banner in one hand high above your head? Oh dear... :rolleyes:
How come you didn't inform yourself when it comes to the aforementioned things?

Have you ever wielded a halberd, don't you know the Banners of the renaissance period? :rolleyes:

Festus

Crazy Harborc
10-02-2007, 20:53
Rotten.......You would be very amazed by what a human can do with no thought of it, in combat. The poses are not all as I think they should be. Still, I can easily imagine troops in similar poses in HtH. HtH is very fluid as far as positions used to stay alive.

DarkAngel74
10-02-2007, 21:31
All those tights that new State Troops wear keeps reminding me of "Robin Hood: Men in thights". I think it would be funny if those guys do French Can Can Dance just like they did it in the movie.