PDA

View Full Version : 1500 pts Empire - expanded for 2000pts as well.



EndlessBug
23-01-2007, 15:00
Heroes
Warrior priest - great weapon, armour of meteoric iron
battle wizard - lvl 2, dispel scroll
battle wizard - lvl 2, doomfire ring

Core
25 Swordsmen - full command
10 free companies - detachment

25 Spearmen - full command
10 halberdiers- detachment

10 handgunners

14 flagelants

5 huntsmen

Special
5 Pistoliers

1 Cannon

1 Cannon

Rare
Hellblaster Volleygun


To expand to 2000pts I'd add :
Arch Lector - shroud of magnus, additional hand weapon, enchanted shield, dawn armour

20 Greatswords - full command
8 free companies - detachment

It's lacking knights I know, though I'm not sure where exactly I'd make the points up to get a nice small unit of shock troop knights in.

basically it's a mix of a gunline with a state troop army.

any suggestions?

MattKienbaum
23-01-2007, 18:47
in the new book, I have become fond of outriders. Drop the 2nd great cannon and upgrade the pistoliers to outriders. then drop the unit of 10 gunners. and add a unit of 5 knights. this won't come out right but you can grab the pints by droping a couple troopers from one or both of the core units. The outriders firepower easly make up for the lost gunners. and the knights can be a new target for the enemy.
over all thei is close to the 2000 point army I have mad, but it is still untested.

EndlessBug
23-01-2007, 21:54
mmm im not so sure about the outriders, they only have move OR shoot weapons as fast cav that's relatively pointless IMO. but I'll think about it.

MattKienbaum
23-01-2007, 22:46
think about it. Correct me if i'm rong, I don't have my book with me.
10 handgunners bs 4 range 24 Move or shoot 10 shots.
5 pistoliers bs 4 range 8 move or shoot 5 shots.
AVG = 15 shots @ a bs 4 and not all can shoot 24"

5 Outriders @ bs 5 range 24 move or shoot 15 shots
AVG = 15 shots @ bs 5 and all shoot 24"
better firepower for the cost.

I also tend to outfit them with barded horses. I know that means there not fast cave but the knights then become harrrasment and shock troops

lack0fbettername
24-01-2007, 01:18
Benifits Outriders have over handgunners

Outriders are BS4, 5 for the campion
hangunners are BS3, 4 for the champion

Smaller Frontage to get more shots.
(5 models wide, vs trying to find a place to fit 15 wide hangunner squad)

As long as you dont give them barding,
Fast calvery has 360' firing arch, so they can shoot at tunnelers or anything that pops up behind them, this makes them a good guard for war machines.

You may have to take a turn to get em in possition but im taking outriders.

You also in the new book cant take huntsment in units of 5, they are 10+

I would also consider using detachments in the 3x3 formation as they can fit places a 5x2 cant and have a much better chance of not being charged.

EndlessBug
24-01-2007, 04:48
ok so how about drop the handgunners and huntsmen to give :

upgrade to outriders and a unit of 5 knights?

can u use 3x3 for raf troops? thought min was 5 in a rank

Makarion
24-01-2007, 09:36
I would personally drop the helblaster (too unreliable) and the flagellants (too few to do much good) and take outriders (already pointed out by others).

Maybe a war altar for your arch lector, if you can't quite swing a small group of templars? It's an unbreakable chariot with a ward save for 100 points. Given that the ward save is for your lord, that is quite a good deal. Use him as you would use regular flanking cavalry and that should be well worth the cost. Saves you the Shroud of Magnus as well, so it's even cheaper.

I've become fairly fond of the Icon of Magnus on a warrior priest, to anchor my battle line around a big block of infantry. Of course, my regular opponents include several flavours of Chaos as well as a many shamans (skinks and night goblins), so... If your group isn't too scary, you can probably drop that for a captain with a nice weapon or a BSB.

lack0fbettername
24-01-2007, 17:25
yes you can use a 3x3 detachemet.
The minimum size of 5 models in a rank is to get the rank bonus.
So with 40 men you could rank up the unit 2 wide & 20 deep.
This is not advantagous because you only have 2 models attacking back & get no rank bonus.


However with your detachements you shouldnt care about their rank bonus or really their killing potental, their main task is to help with outnumbering & negating enemy ranks. Which you can do with any formation. As long as they are atleast 5 models strong.

Say for example If you have a detachment inbetween 2 parent units...

With a 5x2 you have a good chance of a fast enemy (heavy calvery) slipping inbetween your parent units and charging your detechments, then breaking thru and getting behind your lines to run amok. However with a 3x3 you could put your parent untis closer together so that enemy units couldnt fit between & charge your detachment.

Also another downfall is it takes more space to wheel a 5x2 detachement.

Many people run the what has become refered to as the "mini-bus" formation 3wide x 4 deep, it has the same benifits of the 3x3 with a few extra warm bodies.

I however strongly advocate the 3x3.

You may want to rethink the flaggilents as makarion said, at T3 and no armour they are the most expensive infantry in your 1500 list but die the fastest.

ffarsight
25-01-2007, 09:53
Benifits Outriders have over handgunners

Fast calvery has 360' firing arch, so they can shoot at tunnelers or anything that pops up behind them, this makes them a good guard for war machines.

I would also consider using detachments in the 3x3 formation as they can fit places a 5x2 cant and have a much better chance of not being charged.

How can fast cavalary have 360 firing arch?? it only has it when itīs moving and shooting, not when they are steady. if they are not moving then they have the normal 90 arc fire(line of sight). correct me if iīm wrong

Yap, i alread use det as 3x3 and its great, you cant really expect to do lots of kills with them, they just are there for taking rank bonus and +1 for resolution.
I love the war altar soo much that i just canīt trade it for a grand master or general... :) . You canīt have enchante shield and dawn armour , because they are 2 magic armours.

EndlessBug
25-01-2007, 12:25
New 2000 pts army:

Lord

Arch Lector - sword of battle, Enchanted Shield, heavy armour, War Altar

Heroes

Warrior priest - great weapon, armour of meteoric iron

battle wizard - lvl 1, 2 dispel scrolls

Captain - BSB, Full Plate, Griffon Standard

Core

25 Swordsmen - full command
9 free companies - detachment

24 Spearmen - full command
9 halberdiers- detachment

10 handgunners - champion, Hochland long rifle

5 Knights of the Blazing Sun

Special

5 Outriders - musician

19 Greatswords - full command
- 9 Free Companies - detachment

1 Cannon

1 Cannon

Rare

Hellblaster Volleygun

Total : 2000 pts

Dispel Dice : 6
Dispel Scrolls : 2
Power Dice : 3
Bound spells : 3 (power level 4)

lack0fbettername
25-01-2007, 17:46
Ffarsight, i dont have my big rule book, ill have to double check when i get home but im 99% sure that fast cav. have a 360degree shooting arch all the time.

It would be under fastcav-shooting section, ill double check.

Thats one of the benifits about the outriders, you can move them up 16" to the flank of an enemy unit to march block. And then they cant move out of your firing arch, so youll get all those shots at short range.

As far as the list it seam to be a very balanced list, im probabaly gonna be running something similar myself.

I dont like the hellblaster myself but thats personal preference

Mike3791
25-01-2007, 20:22
fastcav cant shoot in 360 angle, you are thinking of skirmishers. They can only march/reform and shoot, but since their weapons are move or fire only, then this rule is negated. Always bard them.

lack0fbettername
25-01-2007, 21:58
Umm.. Im not sure you all are playing the same game i am.

The section on fast cavalry (Page 70 of the 7th edition big book) First paragraph on the right side of the page title "Line of Sight", Second sentence

And i quote
"In the shooting phase, fast cavalry models can fire all round, reguardless od the direction the models are facing."

YOu should never bard your outriders as they lose this increadably cool ability.

Makarion
26-01-2007, 08:18
They also don't block eachother's LoS as long as they are fast cavalry, which is handy. Only give them barding if you want them purely as an advanced shooting gallery (and plan to bring pistoliers for the real harassment).

ffarsight
26-01-2007, 10:59
Ok, i think your correct lackofbettername, they can fire 360, in that case putting them in a good place they could shoot every turn even behind them, whitch make them really cool.

ffarsight
26-01-2007, 11:07
Dispel Dice : 6
Dispel Scrolls : 2
Power Dice : 3
Bound spells : 3 (power level 4)

Correction:

you get

Bound Spells: 4 (3 power level 4 and 1 power level 5 from war altar)
you should see my list here:

-Arch lector, war altar, dawn Armour, shield, sword of battle, van horstman speculum.

- W.P. barded W.h. , H.A. shield, sword of Battle, orb of thunder. ( with great hammers)

- W.P. G.W., armour of meteoric iron, ( with swordsmen)

- Battle Wizard, level 2, Doomfire ring----Lore of Fire ( with great hammers)


Core:

- 24 Swordsmen, full command
det.- 9 halberdiers

- 25 Spearmen, full command, shield(i would rather take it out next time)
det.- 5 handgunners

- 5 knights

- 18 Flagellants

Special:

- 20 Great hammers, full command
det. 9 free company

- 1 cannon

- 1 cannon

- 5 pistoliers

Power dice - 4
Dispel dice - 7
Bound Spells - 7

total - 1996