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Ozorik
05-04-2005, 00:32
Having got bored of 40k's simplicity and the fact that my favorite IG army has been neutered by 3.1. I have decided to move back to fantasy after an absence of several years, I think I stopped playing in 4th ed. I used to run a large Empire infantry army and had moderate sucess but I want a change especially as I have spent most of my gaming career painting humans and as O+Gs are an archetypical fantasy army I think Ill give them a go.

I dont really know how fantasy works these days however and Im not sure how I should structure my army except that It will be pure orcs with maybe a unit of gobbos for fluff reasons. I dont have the army book yet and I wont be able to get a hold of it until next week.

Basicaly Im asking for some ideas as to what sort of army I should use as a base and some general tactics.

Ive knocked up a quick list in army builder that seems to give me agood foundation.Bear in mind that I only have a rundimentary understanding of the rules and how fantasy works these days :)

19 boyz full command spears sheilds =201

19 boys full command spears shields =201

19 boys full command sheilds =155

19 gobbos full command short bow= 80

19 gobbos full command short bow= 80

Orc big boss light armour great weapon warboss ums best big boss at= 101

orc shaman lvl 2 wollopaz one hit wunda= 110

2 gobbo spear chukkas= 70

total = 998

I know it isnt particullary exciting and that I dont have anything particullary nasty but as I said it is to form a base of a larger army which will contain some more exciting choices.

Arnizipal
05-04-2005, 01:46
All in all that looks like a pretty solid 1000 points list. It has some minor flaws though:

An all footsloggers army of Orcs is a powerfull thing, but watch those flanks. I'd suggest getting some wolfriders to take care of enemy fast cavalry and skirmishers.

Goblins archers are kinda crap. I'd swap 'em for wolf riders.
If you want to keep them, however, drop the full command. Goblins aren't great in combat and the extra attack of the boss won't make any difference. You can be fairly certain the unit is lost as soon as it gets charged. That's why it is probably best to drop the standard as well. As it stands, that standard is worth more victory points than the unit itself. :D
Keep the musician though. +1 Ld for rallying is something Gobbos can really use.

If you can spare the points, upgrade one of your units of Orc Boyz to Big'Unz. +1WS and +1S is nothing to scoff at, especially when combined with extra hand weapons (though that is costly).

It's bit pointless to give your Shaman a magic weapon. As you might have noticed, spell casters aren't the decent close combat troopers they were back in 4th/5th edition. In fact, it's best to keep them out of combat alltogether (but near enough for WAAAGH! bonusses).

Ozorik
05-04-2005, 02:30
He has the magic weapon as I had 12 points left over so..
I only took gobbo infantry as I though you had to before you could get wolf riders....
I also forgot about victory points :)

OK my revised list is as follows:

19 boyz full command spears and shields= 201

19 big unz full command extra hand weapons= 199

19 boyz full command shields= 155

10 gobbo wolf riders spears, short bows and musician = 136

Orc big boss great weapon 5+ ward hat thing = 100

Orc shaman lvl2= 100

2 gobbo spear chukkas= 75

1 gobbo spear chukka= 35

= 998 or there abouts

should I use the wolf riders in 1 block of 10 or 2 blocks of 5? Are wolf riders skirishers as well as fast cav or how does that work these days (I cant get the rule book till next week either :) )

Should I drop all 3 chukkas for another 10 wolf riders with spears?

User Name
05-04-2005, 03:04
If you want all orks then you should check out grimgors Ard boys list, it allows for all biguns or black orks making for a quite a solid army.

The list is on this sight http://stormofchaos.ca.games-workshop.com/preview/book/campaign_book.htm

Ozorik
05-04-2005, 03:41
Ive never been keen on elite armies, Id rather use an all gobbo horde but I cant be bothered to paint them all :)

User Name
05-04-2005, 04:44
There orks there not rely that expensive, but its oyur army and yuor call, just pixk up the book and find what owrks for you :)

Karhedron
05-04-2005, 11:00
should I use the wolf riders in 1 block of 10 or 2 blocks of 5? Are wolf riders skirishers as well as fast cav or how does that work these days (I cant get the rule book till next week either :) )
They are just fast Cavalry, however that is pretty good. As to the 1 unit of 10 or 2 units of 5, that depends on how you plan to use them. If you purely want to harass the enemy with their shooting, block march moves and flee from charges then 2 units would probably suit you best. However as the only fast units in your army, there is some value in having a unit you can use for flank charges.

Wolf Riders are not hot in combat but if you charge a unit with a US of 5 or more into the flank of the enemy while the Orcs charge the front then you can negate the enemy rank bonus. This allows them to pretty much take on anything the enemy can throw at you. However with units of 5, a single casualty will prevent them from negating rank bonuses. If you can spare the points then 2 units of 7-8 would be a pretty good idea as they can take a few hits before losing their effectiveness.


Should I drop all 3 chukkas for another 10 wolf riders with spears?
Keep at least a couple of chukkas. They are great value for the points and can potentially cause a lot of damage. Orcs are not strong on shooting so having a few missile weapons in your army is a great way to soften up nasty targets for the charge. I once got lucky a shot a Dark Elf Lord off the back of his dragon with a shot from a chukka. The Dragon then fled the field giving me almost 500 points for a single shot! :D Unlikely but worth trying.

Lastly you may want to give your Shaman a few odments to help him out. The Miscast table is really nasty for Orcs so buying him "Dangly Wotnotz" will probably save him from one miscast. Also a dispel scroll will usually come in handy. That is 50 points for both items but them will go a fair to maximising the return on your investment for the shaman.

Festus
05-04-2005, 11:38
Hi

Drop the spears on the infantry, they are worthless.
Use the points to build another unit of Wolfboyz to protect flanks, harrass the enemy. (I'd make both about 6 strong).

Add a Dispel Magic Scroll.

Greetings
Festus

Ozorik
05-04-2005, 12:47
OK Ive revised the list again:

19 boyz full command shields= 155

19 big unz full command extra hand weapons= 199

19 boyz full command shields= 155

8 gobbo wolf riders spears, sheilds = 96

8 gobbo wolf riders spears, shields = 96

Orc big boss great weapon 5+ ward hat thing = 100

Orc shaman lvl2 dispel scroll= 125

2 gobbo spear chukkas= 75

= 1001

To bring the list up to 1500 Im thinking of adding 12 boarboys, 2 gobbo chariots and an orc chariot and bulking out my characters equipment a bit.

Badgobbla
05-04-2005, 13:55
Looks good up 'till now, but I'd consider taking a Battle Standard Bearer asap. You really need to be able to re-roll those break tests, because with a big boss you only have Ld 8, which is not much these days.

Also, I wouldn't bother with the 5+ ward-hat, I'd give your general a 'Dead ard armor', which confers a 1+ save. This should be able to protect him even against the most hardy adversaries: against a Str 6 attack you still have a save of 4+ and it would be silly to lose your general to a plethora of Str 3 or 4 attacks with only a 5+ save instead of a 1+ or 2+.

I've played very intensive for about 5 years with O&G and I noticed that you can go one of two ways with them: either you go magic/shooty-heavy or you go close combat-heavy. I'll explain what this entails:

Magic/shooty: you take at least 3 shamen (preferably 1 lvl 3/4 and 2 lvl 2) and as much spear chukkas, rock lobbas and doom divers as you can fit in your army backed up by plenty of boyz (I usually took 2 chukkas, 1 lobbah and 1 diver and 1 regiment of arrer boyz) to mop up what's left.

Close Combat heavy: you take as much mounted units as you can so you get stuck in asap (I took 2x10 wolf riders, 10 boar boyz and 10 savage orc boar boyz, 2 goblin chariots and 1 pump wagon, backed up by 3 units boyz: 1 regular unit, 1 big 'uns and 1 savage ladz).

I didn't really like the magic/shooty army, because you're depending too much on your spells coming through, but the close combat army is a beast: normally you're in combat from turn two and with a bit of luck you can break mediocre/hard units with a charge of 10 wolf riders and a chariot.

Arnizipal
05-04-2005, 16:04
Wolf Riders are not hot in combat but if you charge a unit with a US of 5 or more into the flank of the enemy while the Orcs charge the front then you can negate the enemy rank bonus. This allows them to pretty much take on anything the enemy can throw at you. However with units of 5, a single casualty will prevent them from negating rank bonuses. If you can spare the points then 2 units of 7-8 would be a pretty good idea as they can take a few hits before losing their effectiveness.

Actually, wolf riders like all cavalry, have a US of 2 per model so you'd need to cause 2 casualties on a unit of 5 to stop them nagating rank bonus.

Still, with Goblins more is always better so two units of 8 are better than 2 of 5. Just remember that fast cav doesn't get rank bonusses.

gukal
05-04-2005, 16:25
Actually, wolf riders like all cavalry, have a US of 2 per model so you'd need to cause 2 casualties on a unit of 5 to stop them nagating rank bonus.

We're getting closer to the truth. A unit of five wolf riders has Unit Strength 10 (US2 each). If you inflict THREE casualties, the unit is reduced to US4 and can no longer negate enemy ranks or gain a bonus for a flank charge. If you only inflict two casualties, the unit still has US6 and is fully effective at negating ranks and reaping flanking/rear charge bonuses.

Rambo
05-04-2005, 20:31
Maybe consider having the big Uns with jus choppa and shield, S5 on the charge is very nasty.

Arnizipal
05-04-2005, 20:36
We're getting closer to the truth. A unit of five wolf riders has Unit Strength 10 (US2 each). If you inflict THREE casualties, the unit is reduced to US4 and can no longer negate enemy ranks or gain a bonus for a flank charge. If you only inflict two casualties, the unit still has US6 and is fully effective at negating ranks and reaping flanking/rear charge bonuses.

*slaps forehead*

You are, of course, correct.
Damn, this two week Easter holiday is really undermining my brain power.
I can't even do a simple calculation anymore. :eek:


@Rambo: I think it pays off to go for quantity over quality with Orcs.
5 S5 attacks is impressive, 10 S4 attacks is nasty. :cool:

Ozorik
05-04-2005, 22:31
It may not be the right place to ask this but how many special choices can I take? Currently I have 4 in my 1.5k list this seems to be a bit much to me when I only have 5 core choices.

I intend to make a close combat army, shooting and magic just dont seem very orcy. I would have prefered magic armour but army builder only listed shields and I dont have the army book yet

Arnizipal
05-04-2005, 23:49
Under 2K you get three specials and one rare.
At 2k you get 4 specials and two rares. After that it's one extra special and rare per 1000 points.

Remember that wolf chariots and spear chukkaz are two-for-one special choices (and they're a steal at that).

EDIT:Army builder will mention Magic Armour if you take away the character's normal armour.
e.g. It won't show Magic Armour if you've given you Big Boss light armour, because you can't wear magical armour over normal armour.

Ozorik
06-04-2005, 00:04
I see well Ive restructured my list again this time with 3 specials (Ive dropped the gobbo chariots for a BSB).

How survivable are solo characters? Im thinking of keeping my BSB outside of a unit and mounting him on a boar so he can keep out of trouble but still have the speed to help out where needed.

Im not used to using so few missile units, Im only rolling 2 to hit die per shooting phase so very differnt to my IG :) Are arrer boyz useful even though they are only armed with bows?

Badgobbla
06-04-2005, 06:45
Well, I've got 16 of them, just because they came in the basic box and I painted them just for fun. But the times I used them I found them quite good: they still got their choppas, which means Str 4 on the charge. And, let's be honest now, lots of people just ignore those 16 arrer boyz whilst playing, which means I can sneak in some surprising flank charges if my shaman gets the Hand of Gork-spell. Off course, they're still orcs, so sometimes things go well and other times things go bump, this is something you will have to learn to live with (or buy some Black Orcs).

I have to agree with Arnizipal on the subject of quantity over quality: this is one of your biggest strengths as an O&G-player, numbers, more orcs with additional weapons = more potential kills.

@Ozorik: That's an interesting idea you have there to mount your BSB and let him run around the back of your battleline to help where needed. I've never thought to use him that way. But beware of missile- and magic-heavy armies (high- and dark elves in particular), because if they can unleash something on your BSB he probably won't survive it. And remember: he can only take a magical banner OR another magic item, not both.

Ozorik
06-04-2005, 14:35
Ok Ive increased my list up to 2000 points now.

Warboss Great weapon, guzzlas backbone brew, dead ard armour= 209

lvl 2 orc shaman dispel scroll, danglywhotnots= 140

lvl 2 gobbo shaman dispel scroll= 115

BSB light armour boar = 108

19 boyz shields full command = 155

19 boys full command shields= 55

20 big uns extra hand weapons full command= 211

8 gobbo wolf riders shields spears= 96

8 gobbo wolf riders spears sheilds= 96

20 goblins= 40

20 goblins= 40

10 arrer boyz = 70

10 arrer boyz= 70

12 boar boys full command= 254

orc chariot= 80

2 spear chukkas with bully= 75

doom diver= 80

This gives me good melee capability, some useful thrwaway units and decent firepower with reasonable magical support.

The warboss goes with the big unz and the BSB either goes on his own or joins the boar boys depending.

MadJackMcJack
06-04-2005, 21:00
I've just started putting together an Orc army, but wanted to know what people would recommend for equipping Orc regiments. Is it better to go for 2 choppas, or get a shield?

Badgobbla
07-04-2005, 06:45
I always go for the additional hand weapon because: 1) I got the plastic orcs from the boxed set, which are automatically armed with two hand weapons and 2) more attacks means more potential wounds.

Let me elaborate: orcs already have a toughness of 4 which is pretty good on their own against most units. I think it's not a good idea to give them shields, because I think it's a waste of points. IMO you're better with keeping some points to spare for either another magic item (ie dispell scroll) for one of your characters.

warlord hack'a
14-04-2005, 21:57
let me correct one thing here: orcs can not have two choppa's! If you give them an additional hand weapon then all of a sudden your choppa gets turned into a normal hand weapon: bye bye +1S on the charge. AND using a choppa and a shield in close combat does not give you the lovely +1 additional armor save so this makes, as badgobbla has mentioned, the shield pretty useless.

So what I advise to do is take some spears. Why? for three reasons:

1) if you get charged then the second rank will come in nicely as it is your turn to strike back
2) if you charge you can choose whether to use your choppa for the +1S in the first round or use your spears (this does not help you in round one but it does help you in subsequent rounds)
3) you could also take additional hand weapons to give more attacks but you lose the choppa option and the other reason not to take them is because if you get charged and 4 models get killed out of you front row of 5 then you have two attacks back, if you have spears you will still have 6 attacks back.

And an additional HW is as expensive as a spear. Only advantage of an additional handweapon is that you get more attacks in the round you charge (which is wordt something).

Here is yet another thought: take savage orcs and give them spears! Each savage orc has 2 attacks, so if you charge you can deliver 10 (or 11 with boss) attacks and if you get charged then you will deliver 20 attacks -2 per slain orc, so using the example above: you get 4 dead orcs, this leaves 6 spear armed savage orcs alive to attack back with 12 attack in total, sounds to me a lot better than 6 or 2 attacks.

So quality does pay back, also for orcs and gobbo's. Having said that, quantity is also important, take units of 24-30 orcs in a 2000 pt army, then you are sure that even after the enemy has pounded you you still have enough lads to win a combat. Take 20-40 gobbo's per unit (if they are fanatics cariers then 20 should suffive, if you want them to fight use 30-40). And yes, gobbo's fighting is not a bad idea, they are not much worse than an ordinary hummie..

And use wolfriders, do not be afraid to charge a flank of a 20 strong enemy unit with a block of 12 wolfboyz (with light armour so they are not fast cav but do get a rank bonus). If you can charge a flank, do so. You have a rank bonus (+2), a banner bonus (+1), a flank charge bonus(+1) and an outnumber bonus (+1) and hopefully you will kill something with 4 ws 2 S4 and 4 Ws4 S3 attacks. Even better, include a gobbo big boss with great weapon (old trick) for an additional 3 Ws4 S6 attacks (for only 53 points!). So charging a flank (any unit that does not have a rank bonus can be charged frontally if they are a bit isolated) will give you a start of +5 CR(+4 if the other ones have a banner), even if you do not kill anything this will be a tough nut to crack for the enemy. Best time to charge is when your orcs are onr round away from charging: that way the enemy does not know if it should turn to face the wolves, exposing the flank to the orcs..

Of course, all you need to do is pass your animosity tests, stear clear from enemy missilefire and find an exposed flank but after that this unit of 203 points (including the big boss!) will win your day.

Snoozer
15-04-2005, 18:10
I like to use additional hand weapons as much as I can (and for a while the only theme for my army was: lots of attacks no armor) but then I realized that the additional hand weapon is almost useless on a regular orc, because of the ws3 and str3 they mostly missed. So now I like to use choppas and shields (you dont have to have the shields, but I wanted to) for regular orcs, this way they are cheaper and you get more of 'em.

For Big 'Uns I still like to use additional hand weapons, because they know how to fight(just yesterday my 24 big uns + black orc general unit standed their ground after a ogre bull unit charged in front and a iron gut unit with a bruiser in the flank, I did have some luck and that war banner saved my ass just barely, but still)

and about Ozorik's list, if you like it thats all that matters, but I dont like arrer boyz at all, if your taking them just because they come in the starter box you can always convert them with leftover pieces from the orc regiment boxes, if your taking them because you want archers I would (well I already have) taken gobbo arcers instead, a lot cheaper and miss about the same amount of time (I toke N.gobbos and use them as a meat shield walking and shooting, letting fanatics go and then run away,).

I just have to say one last thing... gobbo meatshields dont work at all. they always fall into animosity and all hell breaks lose when half of your army is stoped by one of your gobbo units (but I like it when things dont work as they should, thats why I play with O&G)

taer
16-04-2005, 06:02
I just have to say one last thing... gobbo meatshields dont work at all. they always fall into animosity and all hell breaks lose when half of your army is stoped by one of your gobbo units (but I like it when things dont work as they should, thats why I play with O&G)

That's why black orcs exist.