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Nubelf
24-01-2007, 20:24
The goal is for Dark Riders to pepper units with fire and slow down marches, the Noble in the Cold One unit slams into the frontal offense and a turn later 40 Corsairs, 14 witches, and 20 BG join the fight!

I lack magic defense, but with my points limit I couldn't fit a Sorceress in. My first Noble (Avrith) is better equipped than Lo'Som, but unfortunately I am maxed on points.

Hero 295
Dark Elf Noble (Lo'Som): 70
Heavy Armor; Sea Dragon Cloak; Lance; Cold One= +40
Seal of Ghrond +25; Enchanted Shield +10= 35
Total= 145
Sorceress: 90
2x Dispel Scroll= +50
Total= 140
Noble joins with Cold One unit. He and the unit tackle/slow down opposing units while footsloggers make their way ahead. Sorceress is anti-magic.

Core 814
20 Corsairs, with Command= 225
20 Corsairs with Command= 225
5 Dark Riders with Musician=127
5 Dark Riders with Musician= 127
10 Warriors with Xbow= 110
Warriors sit back by the Bolt Throwers to lay down fire on units; that’s it for them, really. Dark Riders harass the faster enemy units in hopes of preventing them the first charge. Hopefully their fire does something, too. Corsairs are more mainstay, they are meant to butcher the basic troops of other armies (although chaos would probably hand them their asses).

Special 559
14 Witches with command and Rune of Khaine= 360
5 Cold One Knights, Full command= 190
Cold One Knights are with Noble in his brash, suicidal charge. Witches are going to throw themselves into combat and murder everyone!

Rare 200
2x Bolt Thrower= 200
Same as any boring Bolt Thrower, sit back and pew pew

Total for Army= 1849




I am hoping for a list that will be very competitve in tournaments, with some flexibility. All the while maintaining a close-combat, "raid" style army. Get in, get out, leave none alive.

Last note, my first noble was going to join the BG; but, due to points, I couldn't afford to field him.

Despair
24-01-2007, 23:36
Might be just me, but as fast cav your dark riders dont need a banner. It will only be a slight modifier in combat which you shouldn't get into.

Makaber
24-01-2007, 23:37
Can't use additional hand weapon while mounted, sorry.

I'd drop the champion and standard bearer on the dark riders: The banners aren't going to help you much, because the corsairs will either be up against very light units on their own (war machine crew, lone mages, stuff like that) where a banner is a bit redundant, or they will support another unit (in which case having two banners in the fight isn't doing you any good). And the additional ballistic skill on the champion is of doubious value.

For the points you save, you can get the noble a shield and a lance. I don't have my army book with me right now, so I don't know how much points you have left over after that, but other options you might consider are:

Enchanted shield! Low cost, additional protection.

Shield of Ghrond! Underestimated, functions the same as giving him an enchanted shield and +1 Toughness!

Sword of Might!

Seal of Ghrond! Helps with the magic defense.

War Banner! Helps the Knights a lot in breaking the opponent.

Nubelf
25-01-2007, 03:45
Thanks greatly for replys! I haven't played Warhammer in years, so the dual wielding thing slipped my mind (tho I had a feeling it wasn't possible; how would they hold the reigns?!). I was thinking of using the sword that gave +1 hit, to make up for loss of 2nd weapon. Will drop Champ and Flagger on Dark Riders (I assume that's what you meant when you said Corsair...); I put them up without really thinking.

I can give the guy a lance AND a magic weapon, right? So, on charge I'd have base number of attacks, but +2str. Correct me if I am wrong, :)

Uraithen
25-01-2007, 05:25
Only bretonnian charaters can use lance first and switch so don't go for both 'cause you will only be able to use handweapon if you charge in with lance.

Corsairs are underestimated but since the cost for warriors has dropped they are a better choice now a days.

You also should put in at least a lvl 1 sorceress as a scrollcaddy to get some magic defense. you should also consider some reaper boltthrowers and drop the black guards (overestimated!)... they are expensive and not to good.

Make these changes and you might have a chanse but I good magic list, a good shooting list or just a good player will pick this army apart.

Don't want to be meen but it's pretty weak in its current stage.

Others will comment later today. LISTEN TO WHAT THEY SAY AND YOU WILL GO FAR!

Nubelf
25-01-2007, 05:55
Firstly, I edited the main post for army update.

About Black Guard, can I get a reason why they're bad? With Eternal Hatred and Stubborness I can't see how they wouldn't be effective. Not forgetting, they look pretty bad ass ;)

I know I lack, sorely, magic defense. I also probably lack great ranged armies, except for my good range armor saves.
I hope it doesn't look like I am arguing suggestions, but I want a reason to give up Black Guard, and such.

The SkaerKrow
25-01-2007, 08:39
Hero
Dark Elf Noble (Lo'Som): 70
Heavy Armor; Sea Dragon Cloak; Cold One= +36
Sword of Battle +25; Enchanted Shield +10= 35
Total= 141

Your Noble will be hitting on 3s against most things in the game without the Sword of Battle. Exchanging your Sword of Battle for a Sword of Might would give you more killing power, which is helpful against high toughness opponents.

More importantly, your army has no magical defense. If you had a cavalry based army with lots of fast units, you might be able to pull this off. As it is, you're going to get thrashed by armies with a substansial presence in the Magic Phase. If you don't want to take a Sorceress then you could drop your Noble's Sword of Battle, give him the Seal of Ghrond and find the points for a Lance.


Core
40 Corsairs, with Command= 450 (2 units of 20)
10 Dark Riders with Musicians= 254

Are the Dark Riders in two blocks of 5, or one block of 10? If it's the block of 10, consider splitting them up so you can march block your opponent in multiple places.


Rare
20 Black Guard with Command with Dread Banner = 430

This unit will lose the game for you. Lightly armored (because Heavy Armor alone can't stop much), Toughness 3 infantry that cost almost 20 points apiece just do not work against armies with decent missile troops, war machines or offensive magic. They're fierce in close combat, and that's one of the reasons why your opponent will likely blast them to pieces as quickly as possible.

Considering that your army is infantry based, you might want to add some Chariots instead of Cold One Knights. Chariots can't march, but their 7" movement lets them keep pace with Dark Elven infantry pretty well. If you mount a Noble in a Chariot, it goes up to the all-important Unit Strength 5 (which lets them break opposing ranks on a Flank or Rear charge) and can actually cause a lot of damage.

In a friendly game your list might be fun, but I just don't see it performing too well in a tournament environment. The lack of magic defense and vulnerability of the Black Guard will turn things against you pretty quickly. Whatever list that you bring, I wish you the best of luck in your tournament.

Nubelf
25-01-2007, 17:29
The Dark Riders are two units, yes.

I guess I'll look into removing the BG, enough people are saying they blow. Of course, that frees up like a 1/4th more to spend. I am thinking, for replacement, a Sorceress and couple Bolt Throwers. Good/bad?

I may change Noble's magic sword with Seal of Ghrond and just hand him a lance. I can definetly see why that would be of help.

Nubelf
25-01-2007, 18:20
Edited list, made it a bit easier to comprehend and also told my plans for specific units.

The SkaerKrow
26-01-2007, 08:11
Didn't mean to a buzz-kill about the Black Guard. I really like the unit myself. I have a whole regiment of the old models (which I actually prefer). They're just really, really vulnerable.

The Bolt Throwers will serve you well. You can split their fire against small units, or really punish a larger unit with concentrated volleys. The Sorceress should also give you some survivability in the Magic Phase. I know that a Scroll Caddy and a couple of RBTs aren't the most glamorous additions to an army, but if this is for a tournament you'll need to be prepared for extremely hard, unfluffy lists.

If you ever play a game outside of a tournament setting, bring your Black Guard list. It might be really fun, just not tournament fun.