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Nazguire
16-07-2005, 07:38
Oh Brothers, lay down thy arms, lay down thy cheese burgers and lay down thy erotic fantasies and come to my aid!

To me, there seems to be a fair amount of confusion over the Dreadnought and its various classes, types and availability to a Chapter/Legion. So lets embark on a magnificent quest, to slay the white rabbit, rescue the Cheshire Cat and lay down pen to paper, digit to key, once and for all the compilation of Dreadnoughts and their various food items!


Well there is the 'Fury' Class, the Carnivator (I think) classes that I can remember. They are the older classes, with the little head out the front, ala Horus Heresy artwork. To me they seem to be more suited for the up close and personal with a small gun (Dreadnought-wise) and a huge weapon for smashing heads. They are also classed the Mk III, I think. Once again, correct me if I'm wrong.

Availibility to a Chapter. Well the Imperial Fists has somewhere up to 7 I believe, don't have the source material at hand. So it is reasonable to assume that most older Chapters have a Dreadnought per company, some older and more mechanically intune Chapters (Salamanders, Iron Hands, Brazen Claws) may possess one per Company plus an extra 1 or 2. Younger Chapters would maybe possess up to 5 or less depending on how recent they were founded.

Sephiroth
16-07-2005, 08:13
Availibility to a Chapter.

The organisation chart at the back of the former Codex: Space Marines had each company with varying amount of Dreadnoughts, from the Fifth Company's single Dread, to the Ninth's seven!

Jaq Draco
16-07-2005, 13:19
your forgetting the old rogue trader classes

the deredo (eddy)
and
the furibundus (fury)

Nazguire
16-07-2005, 16:00
your forgetting the old rogue trader classes

the deredo (eddy)
and
the furibundus (fury)


The Furibundus I mentioned. (Fury) :p

Rabid Bunny 666
16-07-2005, 21:11
So lets embark on a magnificent quest, to slay the white rabbit.


oh noes! :D


the HH trilogy (third book-a-coming) seems to have reaper autocannons and power fists

IMHO i think that the dead marines are "gifted" with a dreadnaught best suited to its abilities in life, such as a lascannon/rocket launcher for a marine of the 9th company as it makes sense to me

Skonar
18-07-2005, 18:09
Well there's another question to this, and that's the question of how frequently an elligable marine comes along that can be bunged into the dreadnaught.

Marines are, on the whole, very survivable people, particularly when they get some limbs knocked off that get replaced with bionics, et al.

As such, in how many situations do we find a marine who is wounded enough not to return to duty soon or immediately, but not quite enough to die, -and- while there are plenty of tech-marines around?

I'm under the impression that if a Marine can continue to fight as he is, plus or minus, (addition of bionics, loss of a few fingers,) he does so.

Of course it's likely a marine could survive much longer than a human being in a totally pulped out 'oops I caught an artillery shell on my leg' type state... but I think the number of dreadnaughts-to-be is probably also really, really low.

El_Machinae
18-07-2005, 19:21
It's a very (un)lucky combination of damage to be sure. The damage has to be non-repairable, but insufficient to ruin the brain activity.

As well, there is the pretense that only honorable heroes get the "forever coffin" of the dreadnaught. I'd bet that there are a decent number of rookies that catch the right shells in the right places, but don't have the resume to qualify.

One wonders what happens to those rookies. Efficiency would dictate putting them on life support until the progenoids can be harvested.

Minister
19-07-2005, 00:51
Life support systems untill harvest, and them most likley the Emperor's Mercy.

Nazguire
20-07-2005, 06:34
It's a very (un)lucky combination of damage to be sure. The damage has to be non-repairable, but insufficient to ruin the brain activity.

As well, there is the pretense that only honorable heroes get the "forever coffin" of the dreadnaught. I'd bet that there are a decent number of rookies that catch the right shells in the right places, but don't have the resume to qualify.

One wonders what happens to those rookies. Efficiency would dictate putting them on life support until the progenoids can be harvested.


'Rookies' I'm guessing would be found by Medics, put out of their misery, harvested, armour/weapons recovered, name written down in the Great Big Maccas Book of Honour and then forgotten about as far as things go.

Come to think of it, is there a such thing as a rookie in the Astartes? Scouts you could sort of say so but to me it doesn't sort of fit with the image of the Astartes.

Sephiroth
20-07-2005, 06:38
Come to think of it, is there a such thing as a rookie in the Astartes? Scouts you could sort of say so but to me it doesn't sort of fit with the image of the Astartes.

Sure there are. Have you read all those 'last stands' Space Marines make? Evidently they can't be that great if they 'sacrifice' themselves that much. Tactical incompetence.

But that's Space Marines for you... great on power, short on brains, beloved of munchkins. ;)

Adept
20-07-2005, 12:33
But that's Space Marines for you... great on power, short on brains

Except for Imperial Fists. Fists are thinkers. Too bad they got a crappy colour scheme, their fluff rocks.

unwanted
20-07-2005, 23:25
Except for Imperial Fists. Fists are thinkers. Too bad they got a crappy colour scheme, their fluff rocks.Now, now, there's absolutely nothing wrong with yellow and black (5th company)...

Nazguire
21-07-2005, 02:28
Sure there are. Have you read all those 'last stands' Space Marines make? Evidently they can't be that great if they 'sacrifice' themselves that much. Tactical incompetence.

But that's Space Marines for you... great on power, short on brains, beloved of munchkins. ;)


That hasn't anything to do with lack of brain power but is to do with the pride of the Marines. Not every Chapter does it. The Crimson Fists are an example.

A last stand doesn't hold much merit if there is the oppurtunity to escape. Most Space Marine last stands occur because there is no way to escape otherwise. For example, the last stand of the 1st Company of the Ultramarines. No way to escape, might as well die to a man holding the polar fortress.

hivefleetcarrion
21-07-2005, 11:55
personally i would still rather choose escape.....

Inquisitor S.
21-07-2005, 12:27
There's a quote from the Space Wolves which illustrates quite well, what in my opinion is the attitude, as giving your life in vain is considered a blasphemy against the Emperor.


It is the way of Fenris. We stay as long as we can. Fight as hard as we can. Kill as much as we can. Only when we can do no more do we move on.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Quotes_Space_Marines

Gregorus
21-07-2005, 16:12
It's a very (un)lucky combination of damage to be sure. The damage has to be non-repairable, but insufficient to ruin the brain activity.

and what about the half-head 'Terminator'-style bionic from new sets? If a marine can still serve in infantry after damage, which had half his skull replaced by metal plating, I fear to think what is enough to make him ready for the sarcophagus...

Wiseman
21-07-2005, 16:13
i can just imagine a scout being sufficiently hurt to be stuck in a dreadnought and being turned away at the desk by some little receptionist who claims that his resume isnt up to scratch and he needs another dozen chaos marines on it at least before he qualifys for a dreadnought.

TenTailedCat
21-07-2005, 16:14
Wasn't hakkon made into a dreadnought in the Space Wolf series? He got half his brain blown apart by las fire but didn't die, then he was taken away by Iron priests.
I've not read Wolfblade so I don't know if there's mention of him there.

Inquisitor S.
21-07-2005, 16:16
Only veterans and heroes receive the honor to be interred in a sarcophagus, surely not scouts.

TenTailedCat
21-07-2005, 16:20
Ws that directed at my post? If so Hakkon was a veteran sergeant. If not, I don't know who you're directing it at so I can't offer an opinion.

Sojourner
21-07-2005, 16:41
If there's a dreadnought waiting for a pilot, I'd say any marine seriously wounded enough to need it should get the opportunity. Being so grievously wounded and living on is heroism enough.

Nazguire
22-07-2005, 01:32
Only veterans and heroes receive the honor to be interred in a sarcophagus, surely not scouts.


Yes, I agree. It doesn't make any sense to give to the relatively unproven Scouts a millenia old and sacred object of preservation over a proven 200 year old Veteran of a hundred campaigns just because he got injured first.

Sojourner
22-07-2005, 10:40
So what, you let the kid die? I don't think so. Wasting a marine's life is a cardinal sin according to the Codex.

Inquisitor S.
22-07-2005, 11:53
@Sojourner: it doesn't really matter what you may think, like in the other thread about Marines what GW says is THE TRUTH. Scouts or normal troopers would not be interred in a dreadnought, and apart from none such mention there's a very simple reason for that: Not every mortally wounded hero can be placed into a Dread immediately, so they are kept alive in sarcophaguslike things until a dread becomes vacant.

And about the young Marine, yes, he would die, as do most of the recruits.

TheSonOfAbbadon
22-07-2005, 12:27
Well, I forget where I read this, it was one of those very short stories that GW sometimes put next to some of their online articles. Anyway, it was about a marine, he leapt in front of his battle brothers to save them from a missile [or something] and when he came to there was an apothecary there, he said the marine's time had come and he had done well, shot him in the head and grabbed his geneseed.

Obviously getting a frag missile in the face and having your chest blown open along with your skull smacked to peices and destroying your nervous system is enough for you to get put in a dreadnought, but if you're just a battle brother you get shot and your geneseed is harvested.