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Yellow Commissar
25-01-2007, 00:21
What does it mean? Is it just a reminder to play nice? Is it a cop-out for GW, telling us to dice everything off because they refuse to write clear rules? Do you apply it to your interpretation of other rules, or do you ignore it? Is it even a rule? What do you think? Let me know.

loveless
25-01-2007, 01:06
When in doubt, just dice it off. Most people should be willing to leave it up to chance if it's unclear. If not...they probably need to take a breather.

I don't think it's a cop-out. I think it's GW's way of reminding the hardcore set that it's still just a game.

Yellow Commissar
25-01-2007, 02:29
Thanks for the reply. I like your interpretation. :)

Sashu
25-01-2007, 03:12
I think it's GW's way of reminding the hardcore set that it's still just a game.

I agree there. Infact, they need to make more references to it... it's pathetic watching grown men pouting because someone says the can't draw LOS through something.

T10
25-01-2007, 08:54
What does it mean? Is it just a reminder to play nice? Is it a cop-out for GW, telling us to dice everything off because they refuse to write clear rules? Do you apply it to your interpretation of other rules, or do you ignore it? Is it even a rule? What do you think? Let me know.

It simply means "Make Nice!".

The rule only works if both players are willing to abide by the result, which again means they are making an effort at being reasonable.

-T10

Angelwing
25-01-2007, 16:31
its not a cop out, the dice off covers stuff like individuals terrain collections, and different ways of reading things. i dont care how much play testing goes on. someone , somewhere will see something different. so in order to play the game and have fun, rather than argue and not have fun, you have the most important rule.
what is the real point of any hobby? having fun.

Yellow Commissar
27-01-2007, 01:21
I agree that TMIR means all this and more. It not only means to play nice, and to have fun, but it specifically directs us how to do so; not by dicing everything off, but by agreeing. I believe the true meaning of TMIR is to make the game as fun for your opponent as possible.

The first paragraph mentions "the spirit of the game". This phrase seems to mean something different to each of us. To some, it simply means to not cheat. Others carry it so far as to include the intent of the designers. To me, a quote from the appendix sums it up quite concisely....

"GENEROSITY
Players are encouraged to play in a spirit of cooperation, and should be prepared to allow some slight repositioning of units rather than spoil a good game. If in doubt be generous...or roll a dice to decide where things are very close."

Be generous. Be prepared to agree. The spirit of the game is a spirit of generous cooperation. I've taken this advice to heart. As a former MTG player, and a former U.S.Marine, I tend to be competitive. I wasn't trained to be generous, I was trained to take advantage of my opponents weaknesses and exploit them. I needed TMIR to be a rule to remind me that this is just a game, and that in this game, generosity and cooperation are more important than winning. At Magic tournaments, I wasn't interested in being generous when my opponent misinterpreted a rule. Playing WHFB now, I am.

The second paragraph explains why generosity is necessary in this game. Certainly no one would expect a chess player to allow his opponent to move outside of the rules even though, chess is, after all, just a game too. With games like chess the rules are much more clear, neat and concise. In WHFB it is just not possible to encompass this genre with simple, clear rules. Most games will have some situations arise that just don't lay entirely within the existing structure. To make this game actually work, all rules interpretations must come from this perspective. A POV that I know the rules, and I am right just won't work. It doesn't even matter if I am truly right. I must be prepared to agree with my opponent or the foundation the rules rest on will crumble, and the game will degenerate into something that just isn't very fun.

Now we get into the meat of the rule, directions on how to apply it. The last three paragraphs detail exactly how I am supposed to apply rules when playing. The first of these tells me how to resolve situations that lay outside of the rules. It doesn't say we should just roll a dice, either, it says to either interpret a rule or come up with a house rule. I take this to mean that I should do what makes sense, to both of us. Usually this is easy. My friends and I all share reasonable sensibilities, and this takes about five minutes tops.

The controversial dice roll comes next, and I'd like to point out that what this paragraph actually says is that both players should agree. Only in the event that I cannot conform to the directive to agree should I ask for a dice roll. I don't read this to say "just dice everything off". That is reserved for when a "situation of contention" turns into a "dispute". If the game has gotten to the point that it is a dispute, I believe I've already failed to comply with the part that tells me to agree. No one's perfect, and I can't claim that I've never had a dispute spring up during a game, but I can say that the last few "situations of contention" that I've experienced have been resolved with generosity, not dice rolls.

Lastly, TMIR encourages communication. This is, IMO, the most important part of the rule. I've found that communication is vital to my friendships. Even if we have a hard time seeing each others perspectives, at least we both know what they are. Nothing strengthens a friendship more than a good fight followed by honest discussion, and friendship, IMHO, is what this game really is about.

So, to me, TMIR is a rule. A very important one, too, as it covers all of the silly oversights of the designers. It solves exploitave tactics like the Fanatic Slingshot, Clipping, chargers charging before fleeing units flee, chariots gaining attacks from a frenzied rider, Fanatics dying on open terrain, Bull Centaurs counting as mounted, and Night Goblins going wild (watch out spring break!). It may not solve them exactly the same way every time, but that is the nature of this game that we all love.

Thanks again for your replies. If you disagree with me, please let me know. Perhaps I am missing something in the rules. If you agree, I'd love to know as well, since there are some who say TMIR is not, in fact, a rule as I attest. Some go so far as to say that it has no place being discussed in a rules forum. I say RAW = the rules as written = the rules = the rules as interpreted through TMIR.

TTFN; The Yellow Commissar. ;)

Angelwing
27-01-2007, 02:37
and that is that. amen brother!