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Raggie
25-01-2007, 00:51
I’m after the official base dimensions (or your recommendations) for the following models. I know that some of them are not usually put on bases, but I want to start putting some real effort into modelling them. However, I also want to keep them game-legal – if only to keep the charge distances and flank definitions easy to identify.

1. Chaos Warrior Chariot (including and excluding the horse bases)
2. Empire Great Cannon
3. Chaos Hellcannon
4. Dark Elves Reaper Bolt-Thrower
5. Goblin Rock Lobber
6. Goblin Doom Diver

Thanks for your help, everyone.

Yellow Commissar
25-01-2007, 02:38
The stickied FAQ at the top has a link to the official base size chart for you. Good luck with your conversions. :)

TKitch
25-01-2007, 02:50
*cough*read the PDF, it doesn't actually help*cough*


There is no official 'war machine' base size. Most players make a base that comfortably fits the weapon and crew. (Sticking the crew into 2 or 3 pre-cut holes in the base.)

They're removable for injury reasons, of course.

If you take a rectangle of Balsa wood, oh about 75x100mm and cut the holes for the models' bases, you could then place plasticard under it for support, and you've got a base ready to rock!

(Balsa is light and weak, but at the thickness of a normal base, almost a quarter inch, it's more than strong enough for such uses as this. Especially with the added strength of the plasticard under it.)

Raggie
25-01-2007, 03:25
Good idea, thanks guys (PDF at least had the chariots – which I forgot to check:) ).

ffarsight
25-01-2007, 11:12
If you want you could get bases a bit larger than official base dimensions in the pdf, of course you also get more models in base contact, that could be good or bad. :)

Braad
25-01-2007, 11:57
You can also mail order 50x100mm chariot bases at your local GW shop.
Bit expensive though compared with other bases, but very usefull.

Bit difficult to find also, but I just happen to believe that this is the ordernumber: 99379999030 Sprue: Chariot Base

Making bases larger than official is not allowed in tournaments and that kind of stuff.

ffarsight
25-01-2007, 16:54
Making bases larger than official is not allowed in tournaments and that kind of stuff.

Sorry, but itīs not true, making smaller bases is not allowed, you may want to do a great paintjob on these.

NakedFisherman
25-01-2007, 17:15
No, that's a 40K rule.

Base sizes are what they are. The base size of a model is what it needs to have: no bigger, no smaller.

Gorbad Ironclaw
26-01-2007, 08:40
As NF said, thats a 40k rule. In Warhammer base size are set. If you want to do it correctly, you use the specified one, there isn't any wiggling room for different ones.

And of course, there have never been any word on the base size for Warmachines, so just make something that will fit.

ffarsight
26-01-2007, 09:41
ok, i agree tha they should be the correct bases, but then why does some models in gamesworkshop site have diferente size bases????
take this links for example:

1 - http://uk.games-workshop.com/vampirecounts/malakhians-warhost/

The banshee and the fell bat


2 - http://uk.games-workshop.com/darkelves/saldirmeks-soulcrushers/1/

The The Harbingers of Despair (Dark Riders)--- if you take a good look you see the bases are much bigger than normal cavalary ones.

3 - http://uk.games-workshop.com/darkelves/saldirmeks-soulcrushers/2/

The whole picture shows that all cavalary bases are larger than normal, and dark peagasus is also larger.

And iīm sure i will find more if i go deeper... soo what were you all saying about not having bigger sized bases????

The Dark One
26-01-2007, 10:23
No, that's a 40K rule.

Base sizes are what they are. The base size of a model is what it needs to have: no bigger, no smaller.

please tell me where this is written, i know you can't go smaller but not bigger (never heard this other than the manager of my local store who couldn't prove it)

Mephistofeles
26-01-2007, 10:26
There is no rule saying that you can make them bigger nor smaller in fantasy. Therefore you are not allowed to. If something is not written, you can't do it, this is not like a law-compilation, here you can only do what the books say, not what the books don't say...

And as for warmachines, use any base you want, since you never measure anything from or to the bases anyway. Just make sure you know how big the crews bases are, and that they are removable.

ffarsight
26-01-2007, 10:44
There is no rule saying that you can make them bigger nor smaller in fantasy. Therefore you are not allowed to. If something is not written, you can't do it, this is not like a law-compilation, here you can only do what the books say, not what the books don't say....

Ok, i agree, but why the hell we see lots of models with larger bases in tournaments?? Because it looks great, and whe are talking about only some inches more, just to show a good base, i see no problem at all.

have you looked at the 3 rd link i posted? almost the whole army has larger bases

Gorbad Ironclaw
26-01-2007, 12:38
have you looked at the 3 rd link i posted? almost the whole army has larger bases


And this is relevant why?


If you ask what the rules says, then thats the answer you get. No, you can't do larger bases by the rules.


That Scott Goldstein maybe have larger bases on his models isn't really very relevant in a rules question. Not even sure they are larger, could just be the way he have done them that makes them look big.

Flame
26-01-2007, 12:44
Scotts army isnt even on larger bases anyway.

Slottabases have angled sides, thus making the area of the top of the base smaller than the bottom of the bases. As scott simply used balsa wood (I think) for his bases, they lack this feature. Hence, they are larger on top, and appear to be so, but are the same size as normal bases.

Gorbad Ironclaw
26-01-2007, 13:10
Thats what it looked like to me too, but not having seen his army in person I wasn't sure.

ffarsight
26-01-2007, 14:14
then see the base for the normal dark pegasus and compare the space to his dark pegasus, you will see the diference, as almost all model is under the base...its pretty clear... no way its 40*40 .

Just one more thing... whatīs the size for a giant? --- Gw faq(pdf) --- 50*50, right? yes

Whatīs the size of the new giant model base? 50*50 ?? no --- itīs 50*75 why??
it says:
"The new plastic Giant also includes a new size of base, which is 50 mm x 75 mm (too big for us to show at actual scale on these pages). If you don't want to use the pre-textured base that comes on the Giant sprue, you can always make one by supergluing a cavalry base to a 50 mm square base and filling in the gaps with Green Stuff. Almost all of the bases in this article were made in this way."

2 sizes? what should we take? it doesnīt matter, because we just canīt have smaller than 50*50, and thatīs it bigger is ok.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/dogsofwar/giant-bases/1/

ok, nevermind that... iīm only saying that if i want to put my green dragon on a bigger size base (just maybe 2 inches bigger) , iīm doing it and i donīt care, because nothing says i canīt, and it looks better.

Thanks

Sherlocko
26-01-2007, 14:17
Even if something is on a bigger base it is always easy to "calculare" how many models are supposed to be in contact and so on.

Shagrat
26-01-2007, 14:29
What about the giant?
50x50mm on the old ones, and 50x100mm on the new model...

I have two of the old metal models, mounted on 50x50 bases...
For a tournament, do I have to put then on the larger bases, or the 50x50mm is ok?
The PDF from GW says that giants go on the 50x50...

T10
26-01-2007, 14:47
How old? The Marauder Miniatures one? I built a custom 60x40mm base for mine.

-T10

ffarsight
26-01-2007, 14:50
Thatīs what iīm saying we can build diferente bases for some miniatures and still be legal because isnīt smaller than the reference. and all that gw says is a REFERENCE , not a must be rule.

ffarsight
26-01-2007, 14:57
[QUOTE=Gorbad Ironclaw;1246652]If you ask what the rules says, then thats the answer you get. No, you can't do larger bases by the rules.[QUOTE]

Now...whatīs that rule anyway?? and where is it?? its only a reference chart, not a rule.

Festus
26-01-2007, 14:58
Well, use whatever you like, but keep a standard base handy for measuring purposes...

All things go on their regular bases, and for a giant, this should really be 50x50, but stoopid GW chose to produce a different base... :(

Festus

edit:
for most things, there is a rule:

Infantry goes on 20x20, or 25x25, depending on type,
cavalry goes on 25x50,
chariots go on 50x100, barring special rules (Daemonic Chariots),
Monsters go on 40x40 or larger, individually determined.

All of this is on p.7 BRB.

Then there is p. 71 and the table there, detailing it further.
Those are the rules, no debate about that.

It is only Monsters who pose a problem sometimes, as they come with no base (Flyers) or the wrong base (Giant) in the box...

Angelwing
26-01-2007, 15:37
would anyone actually object to a larger base size for a battle standard that is too top heavy for its normal base? my skaven BSB is on a 25mm base.

Festus
26-01-2007, 16:18
Hi

Why don't you just put him on his base with three other rats as 40x40, marking his area somehow?

Festus

Vattendroppe
26-01-2007, 16:33
would anyone actually object to a larger base size for a battle standard that is too top heavy for its normal base? my skaven BSB is on a 25mm base.

Or ut loads of metal scrap-pieces on and under the base?

ZeroTwentythree
26-01-2007, 16:48
Anyone else ever try basing the older Screaming Bell on a 40x60, as suggested by that chart? No way it will fit.

I've been stuck on this without really having an adequate solution on how to use it in games. The other issues tied to it is that it fits within an infantry unit, increases ranks, etc.

Anyone have any suggestions besides "throw away a perfectly good model and buy the new one?"

Shagrat
26-01-2007, 16:57
How old? The Marauder Miniatures one? I built a custom 60x40mm base for mine.

-T10

No, not THAT old. The one in with two head choices, with a tied halfing and a sheep on his belt.



All things go on their regular bases, and for a giant, this should really be 50x50, but stoopid GW chose to produce a different base...

So I should keep my giants in they 50x50 bases. That makes me very happy, as the new giant is much more easy to get hit by cannons, get flanked, receive more attacks from the flank, etc... The 50x100 base is a big trouble for him, if you ask me...

EvC
26-01-2007, 17:58
What about the giant?
50x50mm on the old ones, and 50x100mm on the new model...

I have two of the old metal models, mounted on 50x50 bases...
For a tournament, do I have to put then on the larger bases, or the 50x50mm is ok?
The PDF from GW says that giants go on the 50x50...

You should really only use the pdf as a guide, but not gospel. It's obselete, sadly. For example it says that a Hydra should be on a chariot base, but it appears several times in the WH rulebook on a standard 50mm monster base. It also messes up the Black Coach base size, which could never fit on a chariot base...

Festus
26-01-2007, 20:24
Hi

The 50x100 base is a big trouble for him, if you ask me...
I haven't bought the new Giant, but it sure seems a 50x75 base to me, if I am not mistaken...

Festus

ZomboCom
26-01-2007, 20:54
The main issues with using larger base size are Terror range and number of models in contact.

If I stuck my dragon on a 10 inch base I am artificially increasing the 6" range of his terror. That's not fair, and not allowed.

ZeroTwentythree
26-01-2007, 21:43
The main issues with using larger base size are Terror range and number of models in contact.

If I stuck my dragon on a 10 inch base I am artificially increasing the 6" range of his terror. That's not fair, and not allowed.

But then he's also easier to attack, less maneuverable, and more enemies can jump on him in combat. (Just playing devil's advocate...)

I think it's a matter of being reasonable. Using a slightly larger base because of the size of the model is one thing, using a one that's huge and obviously many times the size of the model is obviously weaselly.

Another aside, I've always thought that the look & design of GW's newer - 4th-7th ed. - dragons has been hindered because of the "standard" base size issue. And even with the "official" base sizes, some of them just can't fit in base-to-base contact with many of the other figures.

Angelwing
27-01-2007, 02:44
Hi

Why don't you just put him on his base with three other rats as 40x40, marking his area somehow?

Festus

alas, he is the battle standard bearer, and so a single character. as for weighing him down, he is the 4th ed stormvermin standard bearer with warlord queeks trophy rack on top. in lead. i couldnt pack enough metal underneath, and the simplest solution was to put him on a 25mm base. he looks great, and i havnt had any complaints about the base size

ffarsight
29-01-2007, 10:15
I donīt want to be a jackass but if you all ready carefully pag 7 of the rulebook you will read "are normaly in 20x20 bases" ... for infantry ...or ..."monsters normaly in 50x50 or higher" THIS IS WHAT IT SAYS, it doesnīt say you are rstricted to use this measures for you all miniatures. So we should take the measures just as a reference and of course be reasanable with the bigger size bases.

Just my finished replay about this.

WLBjork
29-01-2007, 13:19
Which is why page 71 is also referenced. If I put a Dwarf on a 40mm square base he suddenly becomes US3, which is self evidently ludicrous.

As a result, models should always be mounted on the base they come with.

In the case of Warmachinmes, bases will be scenic rather than anything else.

ffarsight
29-01-2007, 14:05
Which is why page 71 is also referenced. If I put a Dwarf on a 40mm square base he suddenly becomes US3, which is self evidently ludicrous.

Whatīs reasanable about that?
Thatīs why i said reasanable.... iīm talking about 2 inches more in a monster, or 1 inche in a chariot, nothing like the double size base in a character on foot. lol donīt forget it has good things and bad things making bigger size bases.

Again be reasanable fellows...

Mezziah
30-01-2007, 19:53
Just think about one thing when increasing the size of bases.
Example:
If a vampire count with the "talon of death" magic item sat upon a zombiedragon and the player increased the base size for the dragon (cuz it looks cooler), the "talon of death"īs power would be greatly increased.

There are several items and rules that affect all models in base contact, so be wary.

ZeroTwentythree
30-01-2007, 21:45
There are several items and rules that affect all models in base contact, so be wary.



*contemplates mounting plague censer bearers on 200 x 200 bases*

:evilgrin:

Negativemoney
01-02-2007, 22:10
Sorry for giving this a bump but here is the official base size chart.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer/base-chart/assets/base-chart.pdf

EvC
01-02-2007, 22:43
Its location was referenced in the first post of this thread, plus it's already obselete or unusable, sadly (E.g. War Hydra, Screaming Bell, Black Coach)...