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View Full Version : Rhinos - I'm a bit confused!



Odin
25-01-2007, 16:47
A Rhino or Razorback comes with a stormbolter as standard. It may also have a pintel-mounted stormbolter purchased as an upgrade. Now, a pintel-mounted stormbolter is indeed included in the plastic kit. I assumed that this was the pintel-mounted stormbolter you can buy as an upgrade, as it is shown as optional in the instructions. But if that's the case, where is the stormbolter that comes as standard? Nowhere it appears.

In fact, the same was true of the old Rhino kit - that never had a stormbolter either, despite it being standard. I had to convert it using spare bolters from CSM bikes.

I'm just about to put together a Razorback, and I don't want to include the pintel-mounted stormbolter as it looks silly sitting directly in front of twin-linked heavy bolters! But that means I have no stormbolter on the model even though I'm supposed to.

So what's going on then? Anyone got any thoughts?

Good god, I just put an apostrophe in the title when there shouldn't be one. By my own standards I should now be tortured horribly.

ryfitz13
25-01-2007, 16:56
As I understand it, the hull-mounted Stormbolter is accepted as being part of the Rhino model - it doesn't necessarily need representation, since it's not an optional part. (And double-check the entry for the Razorback; I'm pretty sure that the Razorback does not include this hull-mounted SB).

The pintle mounted SB is an optional add-on for both tanks, and generally this is what the SB in the Rhino/Razorback kits is used to represent.

And yes, I agree that it doesn't look like such a good idea, placing that weapon mount directly within the fire arc of the Razorback turret - but that's the only option the model gives us.

t-tauri
25-01-2007, 16:57
Good god, I just put an apostrophe in the title when there shouldn't be one. By my own standards I should now be tortured horribly.Title edited. Torture to be arranged.;)

I've often put two storm bolters on rhinos. Razorback doesn't have a standard storm bolter, only an optional one. I normally mount it on the hatchtop like the old style rhino as a remote turret rather than having a pintle mounted one with gunner in the line of fire of the razorback turret.

lord_blackfang
25-01-2007, 16:57
There is a perfectly simple solution to your problem. Razorbacks don't have a stormbolter as standard, just the turret weapon ;)

And paying 10 pts for a pintle SB is utter folly...

ryfitz13
25-01-2007, 17:09
And paying 10 pts for a pintle SB is utter folly...

Why do you say that blackfang? I'm also assembling a couple Razorbacks (though they may turn to Rhino's the more I think about it) and I figured that the SB would be a decent addition, giving the APC more firepower for use as a light tank, assuming it survives to deliver its cargo...

Is the survivability of these things that bad that the 10 points are just throwaways? Fortunately, I'm planning on doing some magnetization of the kits, so I can easily swap out that SB (or sub it back in) if my plans change.

==Me==
25-01-2007, 17:12
A Rhino can have up to two Storm Bolters, hence two storm bolters on the vehicle sprue.

I wouldn't recommend PMSBs on many vehicles mainly because they are points better spent elsewhere (more marines, grenades, etc)

Odin
25-01-2007, 17:28
A Rhino can have up to two Storm Bolters, hence two storm bolters on the vehicle sprue.

I wouldn't recommend PMSBs on many vehicles mainly because they are points better spent elsewhere (more marines, grenades, etc)

Er, my kit only has one stormbolter, hence the confusion.

But I agree, unless the cost comes down to 5 points, I'm not going to bother with a PMSB for Rhinos or Razorbacks. That means I can use the one in the kit as the standard one on a Rhino (probably coverted to be directly on the hatch.

And you are all correct, a Razorback doesn't get one as standard, so I don't need to worry about it. Cheers for pointing that one out.

fracas
25-01-2007, 17:33
i think having two weapons, with one relatively cheap, makes the vehicle significantly more useful. i hate those weapon destroyed results.

Shrike30
25-01-2007, 17:47
I use PMSBs on rhinos when i've got a few extra points floating around, because they double the firepower output of the rhino. Basic marines lay down 4 bolter shots at 24 inches, for 60 points, and that's what a rhino with two SBs can do. It's actually pretty handy when you're fighting armies that have a lot of smaller infantry units (like IG, or tau (detached gun drones), or some orks, etc), because you pretty frequently will end up with those annoying survivors in a firefight. You know who I'm talking about... those two guardsmen left from the squad, banging away with the plasma rifle and the autocannon. Using up an entire squad's firepower to wipe out two wounds, even if they're both using special weapons, feels like a bit of a waste, but being able to hose them down with a couple of independently-targetable storm bolters usually makes "cleanup" during firefights more efficient.

Slipping Rhinos around to the Armor 10 side of a vehicle and hitting it with a pair of storm bolters can sometimes lead to amusing results, as well... you get the occasional glancing hit, and oft-times the player will try and figure out how to slide that weak armor away from the rhino, and end up doing something else he didn't think of, like exposing his side armor to one of your other sources of firepower rather than his front.

It's not something I do when I'm totally strapped for points, but there's a lot worse things to spend 10 points on with a marine list than getting another storm bolter that doesn't require you to turn an entire squad's worth of fire onto a target.

stecal
25-01-2007, 19:54
That extra 10 pt PMSB is BS4 (compare to IG who pay 10pts for a BS3 version) and on a DH/WH Rhino it can get Psycannon bolts making it AP4

Angelus Mortis
25-01-2007, 22:15
I use PMSBs on rhinos when i've got a few extra points floating around, because they double the firepower output of the rhino. Basic marines lay down 4 bolter shots at 24 inches, for 60 points, and that's what a rhino with two SBs can do. It's actually pretty handy when you're fighting armies that have a lot of smaller infantry units (like IG, or tau (detached gun drones), or some orks, etc), because you pretty frequently will end up with those annoying survivors in a firefight. You know who I'm talking about... those two guardsmen left from the squad, banging away with the plasma rifle and the autocannon. Using up an entire squad's firepower to wipe out two wounds, even if they're both using special weapons, feels like a bit of a waste, but being able to hose them down with a couple of independently-targetable storm bolters usually makes "cleanup" during firefights more efficient.

Slipping Rhinos around to the Armor 10 side of a vehicle and hitting it with a pair of storm bolters can sometimes lead to amusing results, as well... you get the occasional glancing hit, and oft-times the player will try and figure out how to slide that weak armor away from the rhino, and end up doing something else he didn't think of, like exposing his side armor to one of your other sources of firepower rather than his front.

It's not something I do when I'm totally strapped for points, but there's a lot worse things to spend 10 points on with a marine list than getting another storm bolter that doesn't require you to turn an entire squad's worth of fire onto a target.
I agree with this post wholeheartedly. I was just thinking pretty much word for word what you wrote as I was reading the thread. Thanks for saving me the typing. :D

Kahadras
25-01-2007, 22:36
And paying 10 pts for a pintle SB is utter folly...

I dunno. I use a couple of Rhinos packed with Grey hunters in my SW army and I like having as much firepower as I can on the turn they jump out. Although it may not do that much against a Chaos marine it can really do damage against stuff like Orks or Gaunts.

Kahadras

Scanno
25-01-2007, 22:45
At 24" range the extra SB'll give you the same firepower as 4 marines for the same points, but it can move and fire, and small arms can't get hurt by small arms. Not a bad investment, especially since your opponants HWs are usually after a meatier target early in the game than an empty rhino.

MrBigMr
25-01-2007, 22:48
That extra 10 pt PMSB is BS4 (compare to IG who pay 10pts for a BS3 version) and on a DH/WH Rhino it can get Psycannon bolts making it AP4
Yeah, but with 2pts. more, they get the Heavy Stubber with 3 shots and 12" more range, but AP6.

And on the subject of Razorback Storm Bolter, why not moun the SB halves on the sides of the Razorback turret? It could look workable.

Sarge
25-01-2007, 22:52
Tau? Light Infantry? What are you smoking?

Kroot are light, yes, but Fire Warriors and Drones have 4+ saves, so I have no idea why you think that's light. Unless ofcourse you're an SM junkie and the lowest armor save you deal with is 4+.

I suggest taking any and every shooty bit you can on a vehicle, within reason, ofcourse.

*cough* SM don't get heavy stubbers *cough*

Why did you bring up the glorious heavy stubber anyway?

Angelwing
25-01-2007, 23:08
As I understand it, the hull-mounted Stormbolter is accepted as being part of the Rhino model - it doesn't necessarily need representation, since it's not an optional part.

does this include a leman russ battle cannon?
seriously though, you need to put that SB on your rhino as its supposed to be equipped with it. looking at the assembly instructions for a sister of battle rhino, the stormbolter isnt listed as an additional extra (represented by a ! symbol). if you want a pintle SB, then two SBs must be on your rhino.
what im saying is, you cant say well my rhino comes with a SB, so i dont need to model it, but i have stuck on a Pintle SB as an upgrade. the model looks like it has the one SB it gets as standard, so doesnt follow wysiwyg, and importantly could confuse your opponent.

MrBigMr
25-01-2007, 23:27
*cough* SM don't get heavy stubbers *cough*

Why did you bring up the glorious heavy stubber anyway?
Did you even read my quote? For what I know, IG spells Imperial Guard. The get heavy stubber for 2pts. more compared to the SM, who get a BS4 Storm Bolter. Am I making myself clear?

Gerrok
25-01-2007, 23:33
That extra 10 pt PMSB is BS4 (compare to IG who pay 10pts for a BS3 version) and on a DH/WH Rhino it can get Psycannon bolts making it AP4


I don't think it works like this.

Only grey knight vehicles can get psycannon bolts. As far as I know the only grey knight vehicles are the heavy support LR/LRC and the dreadnought. Strictly speaking, even land raiders taken as a inquisitors transport cannot be upgraded.

Gutlord Grom
25-01-2007, 23:43
Why not buy the Razorback kit instead? As I understand it, the kit comes with the regular hatches for a Rhino. Just don't glue them in, and switch them the guns and hatches as needed.

BrainFireBob
26-01-2007, 07:09
I don't think it works like this.

Only grey knight vehicles can get psycannon bolts. As far as I know the only grey knight vehicles are the heavy support LR/LRC and the dreadnought. Strictly speaking, even land raiders taken as a inquisitors transport cannot be upgraded.

Storm troopers. They can take Rhinos.

Binky
26-01-2007, 07:14
In fact, the same was true of the old Rhino kit - that never had a stormbolter either, despite it being standard. I had to convert it using spare bolters from CSM bikes.

Didn't the old Rhino kit have a pair of regular bolters, one on each of the top hatches, or did that change later (haven't bought a Rhino since they first came out and you got 3 for 9.99!)

Angelwing
26-01-2007, 12:53
the old kit had a bolter for each top hatch.

logosloki
26-01-2007, 13:07
I thought the heavy stubber was 12pts.......

RedShirt
26-01-2007, 21:58
Stormtroopers in the DH army don't have access to the psybolt upgrade. Only GK vehicles do (Dread/LR/LRC)

Khornies & milk
27-01-2007, 00:54
I don't think it works like this.

Only grey knight vehicles can get psycannon bolts. As far as I know the only grey knight vehicles are the heavy support LR/LRC and the dreadnought. Strictly speaking, even land raiders taken as a inquisitors transport cannot be upgraded.

Where in the codex does it say that a LR when taken as a transport for the Inq/Lord can't be upgraded at all.

Also, as an aside to the Rhino debate, I need one for my SoB squad.
I'm wondering can the Immolator kit be used to make a Rhino out of it.
It is the same Hull, but I'm concerned about the top hatch and turrets.
I really want it for all the WH icons and such that come with the Immolator kit.
Anyone know?

cheers:)

HiveFleetEzekial
27-01-2007, 01:01
certainly! it's even shown as the SoB version of a rhino. and they give enough bits to make both out of the same thing.

You get the new 'top hulll', the immolator turret, and a viewing dome that has a mount for their SB. It also comes with the regular SM vehicle accessory sprue, so you'll get that extra SB as well for the PM-SB. ) And the SoB SB's are nice too, barrel fed. Just file off the fleur d'lice(sp?) ) Just don't glue either on, and they can be swapped out for the same spot (or put both on, since the SoB top has 2 holes, one in front slot and other in back).

Khornies & milk
27-01-2007, 01:08
certainly! it's even shown as the SoB version of a rhino. and they give enough bits to make both out of the same thing.

You get the new 'top hulll', the immolator turret, and a viewing dome that has a mount for their SB. It also comes with the regular SM vehicle accessory sprue, so you'll get that extra SB as well for the PM-SB. ) And the SoB SB's are nice too, barrel fed. Just file off the fleur d'lice(sp?) ) Just don't glue either on, and they can be swapped out for the same spot (or put both on, since the SoB top has 2 holes, one in front slot and other in back).

Sir, thank you very muchly...you just saved me some dough.:D

cheers