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Minibull
26-01-2007, 13:25
Forgeworld finally put up the experimental rules for the named Great Unclean One:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/downloads40k.htm

Interesting stuff, but I can't see how he does not have Nurgle's Rot...

Please discuss.

studderigdave
26-01-2007, 13:57
i prefer his "cloud of flies" over nurgles rot. makes me want to paint mine up and thow him into a game.

Minibull
26-01-2007, 14:24
I was thinking that he would have a Rot similar to Typhus' - it affects all models within 6" on a roll of 5-6.

For his shooting attack, is it just me or does it not really make sense - is it a flamer template (don't think so) or just a short ranged blast template?

electricblooz
26-01-2007, 14:28
See THIS is why I hate inconsistant rules writing!

ScoobyDoobyDoo (or whatever his name is) may take a 4+ invunerable save "even against attacks that would normally not allow a save."

So does this mean that the Psycannon's and Incinerator's special ability to ignore invulnerable saves does not work against him? Probably (i'm not going to even comment on how over-the-*******-top that is), but the way the current rules are written it is totally unclear. If they had just said "the Psycannon and Incinerator's special rules do not work..." it would have been so much better.... but no, they have to write it so we end up with an irresistable force versus an immovable object argument!

Stupid Stupis Stupendi

Dreachon
26-01-2007, 14:30
These are still experimentel so they will chance when they get printed in a big bad IA book compared to now, best is to simply playtest them with and without nurgle's rot, might even want to test him with the improved rot of Typhus

Kjell
26-01-2007, 14:34
It's still an Invulnerable save, so things that ignore Invulnerable saves ignore his save. If that was not intended his save would be called something else. :)

And I interpret is shooting attack as a flamer template you can plce up to five inches away from him. It could be a regular blast template, though.

Dreachon
26-01-2007, 14:40
It's still an Invulnerable save, so things that ignore Invulnerable saves ignore his save. If that was not intended his save would be called something else. :)

And I interpret is shooting attack as a flamer template you can plce up to five inches away from him. It could be a regular blast template, though.

That's just a typo in the PDF, basicly it's a heavy flamer attack

Yorkiebar
26-01-2007, 14:46
"It may make a 4+ Invulnerable Save against all wounds it takes, even those that would normally permit no save."

This is the standard description for the Invulnerable special rule. He gets a save against power swords, rending claws etc. but if weapons ignore invulnerable saves they DO harm him.

Ko Improbable
26-01-2007, 14:53
"It may make a 4+ Invulnerable Save against all wounds it takes, even those that would normally permit no save."

This is the standard description for the Invulnerable special rule. He gets a save against power swords, rending claws etc. but if weapons ignore invulnerable saves they DO harm him.

[passes out seeing the number of wounds]

I'm not sure the point cost is anywhere near balanced considering the difficulty of killing this thing. I'm not entirely sure any of my armies could do so in a six-turn game, even if this guy is the entirety of an opponent's army and it was just standing there, taking the punishment.

intellectawe
26-01-2007, 14:58
"It may make a 4+ Invulnerable Save against all wounds it takes, even those that would normally permit no save."

This is the standard description for the Invulnerable special rule. He gets a save against power swords, rending claws etc. but if weapons ignore invulnerable saves they DO harm him.

Hey Yorkiebar, Electriblooz is probably a new player, and isn't used to that type of wording.

There are two kinds of saves that is of concern here, a Save and an Invulnerable Save. An Invulnerable Save is NOT a Save/Armor Save, it is an Invulnerable Save. So when you ignore all Saves, you are ignoring all Saves, not all Saves and Invulnerable Saves.

electricblooz
26-01-2007, 16:52
Hey Yorkiebar, Electriblooz is probably a new player, and isn't used to that type of wording.

There are two kinds of saves that is of concern here, a Save and an Invulnerable Save. An Invulnerable Save is NOT a Save/Armor Save, it is an Invulnerable Save. So when you ignore all Saves, you are ignoring all Saves, not all Saves and Invulnerable Saves.

Actually, I've been playing since Rogue Trader, thank you very much :rolleyes:

And the fact is that I can pretty much guarantee some munchkin is going to try and argue that the specific language does override the special rules of the PC and IN.

BTW - it's not the standard wording for Invunerable used in either the WH or the IG codex (the only two I happen to have handy at the moment). These codeces say "the model gains and invunerable save that may be taken instead of the model's normal armor save." End quote full stop.

lord_blackfang
26-01-2007, 16:55
I'm not sure the point cost is anywhere near balanced

Yeah, it costs about twice what it's worth.

Kjell
26-01-2007, 16:56
It's the wording used for Greater Daemons in the Chaos codex, though, and they most certainly are not unaffected by things that ignore Invulnerable saves.

But, yeah, it's a bit of an odd wording.

Lord Humongous
26-01-2007, 16:57
The "Toxic Discharge" rule isn;t even a typo, there's just poor alignment between the header and data rows. The "range" in this case is "template". As Dreachon pointed out, its basically "just" a heavy flamer.

Generally the trial release rules are a bit tuned down compared to the final version; I'd bet money the version that makes the book has Nurgle's rot or better. But the statline is pretty godly; I'm gonna have to run a trial combat of this guy vs the Khorne super-deamon.

Of couse, Scab boy is severly limited in offensive power by virtue of the fact that he moves as infantry.

It is pretty amazing that you need a str 6 weapon to wound him. With so many wounds, the toughness does look a bit OTT- shouldn't a heavy bolter have SOME chance of an effect? Even Meltagun's have an uphill battle against this guy.

His WS also shocked me at first- you'd think he'd be pretty easy to hit if you got close enough. But then I considered that its probably not that he's hard to hit, its that just being near enough to try and hit him makes you wretch...

Corporal Punishment
26-01-2007, 19:43
I think his stats are pretty good. The biggest disadvantage he has is the fact that he is slow. A lot of units can simply avoid him. He is like the nightbringer, if he gets in combat with a unit they are doomed but you can manage to avoid him he turns into a huge points sink.

Lord Humongous
26-01-2007, 20:40
Agreed. A much bigger point sink than either C'tan, for that matter. With less ranged utility to boot. Not to hard to run away from, especially if you can throw a tarpit his way. Might be hard to make it stick, though...

Now, if he did something cool like boosted the effect of every instance of "nurgle rot" in your army...

(FWIW, the published version of An'ggrath just plain OWNS this guys puss, according to the combat calculator. Str 10 will do that...
Oops- my bad- forgot about the "Blade of Decay" and its double wounding. Its still tipped in Angry's favor, about what you'd expect for the points.)

Shrike30
26-01-2007, 20:51
Sniper rifles, wraithcannon, rending, and a variety of heavy weapons are going to be the weapons of the day for fighting this guy. Multilasers and shuricannon, too.

Put him up against 777 points worth of Dreadnought, Kanz, Engines, or other similar units, and I think he'd go down. That'd be a pretty serious bash, though :)

Lord Humongous
26-01-2007, 21:09
Good point on the sniper rifles and rending. That's almost silly. Angry has the same weakness (rending)- a unit of genestealers could clean his clock.

The Judge
26-01-2007, 21:10
Rending would hurt him very badly. The auto-wounding is the key.

I wouldn;t laugh at a unit of Ratlings either.

Norminator
27-01-2007, 08:22
I think his stats are pretty good. The biggest disadvantage he has is the fact that he is slow. A lot of units can simply avoid him. He is like the nightbringer, if he gets in combat with a unit they are doomed but you can manage to avoid him he turns into a huge points sink.

That's what is so good about him. What else fits the god of death and decay than a minion that is slow and ponderous, but utterly unstoppable and inescapable when it reaches you? The GUO seems like a very good avatar for death itself.

Ravenous
27-01-2007, 09:07
T9 and 10 wounds????

holy crap. S6 or higher only for this bad boy. Keep wraithcannons away!

Other then that he kinda sucks (special rule writing anyway, he is a monster in all others aspects). S8 means he instant kills most things anyway.There is only a handful of things in the game that the blade of decay would be useful on.

Weird that he doesnt have all of nurgles psychic powers or a 4+ nurgles rot. I mean 777points?

Toxic discharge should be S6 ap3.

To make up for his move 6" assault 6" just mount him on a 5" base (blast template size) or bigger if that doesnt fit.

Rending and sniper rifles arent that big of a deal reasons
rending - 1 in 6 out of 36 attacks in cc thats 6 on average. he saves 3. 7 wounds left. Do you really think he wont be supported?
Sniper rifles - unless your playing against a sniper army which are few since alaitoc got deballed. The max size of sniper units in most armies is 5 guys. 10 wounds? I dont think so its not like he starts ont he table guys he will appearing right in front of you.

gitburna
27-01-2007, 10:15
What im now wondering is what the uber Lord of Change will be like for 999 points ... :eek:

I like these big chaos daemons though, currently imperials tau and eldar get lots of big tanky walky blasty things of death, these beasties are more or less their equivalents.

The_Outsider
27-01-2007, 11:33
Waste of points IMO.

For that cost you can get two (2) Nightbringers. I'd like ot see who'd win that fight even with the GUO's double wound causing weapon.

Also the NB's would strike first, probably get around 4 ish wounds between them. So thats nearly half its wounds to two models that cost less than it does.

gitburna
27-01-2007, 13:51
Waste of points IMO.

For that cost you can get two (2) Nightbringers. I'd like ot see who'd win that fight even with the GUO's double wound causing weapon.

Also the NB's would strike first, probably get around 4 ish wounds between them. So thats nearly half its wounds to two models that cost less than it does.

Oh really, when was the last time anyone used two (2) Nightbringers in a game ? :rolleyes:

Arkzein
27-01-2007, 14:16
Feels like we're getting back to 2nd Edition with the statlines of the big gribblies Forgeworld put out, not a bad thing in my opinion, avatars, greater daemons, large 'nids etc. have always felt a bit fragile to me since they were toned down. ;)

Honestly is there any need to argue over the cost for what he does? I'd imagine it'll only ever be used in large battles for a bit of fun. Going to be some cheer for taking down T9 and 10 wounds, imagine Abaddon coming along and prodding him once though! What a waste. *laughs*

intellectawe
27-01-2007, 15:46
Actually, I've been playing since Rogue Trader, thank you very much :rolleyes:

And the fact is that I can pretty much guarantee some munchkin is going to try and argue that the specific language does override the special rules of the PC and IN.

BTW - it's not the standard wording for Invunerable used in either the WH or the IG codex (the only two I happen to have handy at the moment). These codeces say "the model gains and invunerable save that may be taken instead of the model's normal armor save." End quote full stop.

I am glad I taught you something.

Also, the wording for his Sword is typical GW style. The rule for the Sword has NO indication of its intent besides the example given. If the example wasn't there, you could not play the Sword the way they intended it to be played due to the ****** wording.

Corporal Punishment
27-01-2007, 15:57
That's what is so good about him. What else fits the god of death and decay than a minion that is slow and ponderous, but utterly unstoppable and inescapable when it reaches you? The GUO seems like a very good avatar for death itself.

Agreed, quite in line with the Nurgle fluff if you think about it.

I look for them to revise the rules and give him Nurgle's Rot. IMO that is something he needs very badly.

Ko Improbable
27-01-2007, 15:59
What im now wondering is what the uber Lord of Change will be like for 999 points ... :eek:



Heh. All major and minor psychic powers, probably every single psyker upgrade, and maybe something evil like all enemy psykers automatically suffer a perils of the warp attack if they use their powers. Can use a psychic power in every phase. Sounds about right to me. ;D

Lord Malek The Red Knight
27-01-2007, 16:11
is it just me, or were they reading the 3rd ed rulebook by mistake when they wrote this? i mean, ICs and the 6" thing? old rule. cant ride in a transport? redundant, as he's an MC. :rolleyes:

also, the line about the doubling of wounds only affecting models with wounds - what was the point in saying that? :confused:

and the Aura could be interpreted in different ways: does it affect just 1 model per turn, or every enemy model in b2b?

~ Tim

jobi
27-01-2007, 16:58
also, the line about the doubling of wounds only affecting models with wounds - what was the point in saying that? :confused:



~ Tim


I think the point of that is so people won't say, "Hey my guy caused five wounds on that squad of 10 dudes, so they're all dead." This way it specifies, that multiple wound dude, just got smacked with 10 wounds.

Lord Malek The Red Knight
27-01-2007, 17:37
I think the point of that is so people won't say, "Hey my guy caused five wounds on that squad of 10 dudes, so they're all dead." This way it specifies, that multiple wound dude, just got smacked with 10 wounds.
yeah, maybe, but it doesnt say that. :confused:
all it means is that when you damage a Vehicle (as opposed to a model with Wounds) you dont do double damage.

~ Tim

Morgrad
27-01-2007, 18:18
As a 'nid player, I gotta say that rending isn't going to do much against this guy. You'd need to rend 20 times, which means 120 rolls to hit - so, 40 genestealers on the charge to kill him outright.

Assuming you're not going to get 40 in, it would take turns and turns to kill him, and he'd be doing just a horrific amount of damage back (5 attacks wounding on 2s, d6 attacks wounding on 5s) - that's gonna hurt. Of course, for 777 points, it *better* hurt......

The_Outsider
27-01-2007, 18:45
Oh really, when was the last time anyone used two (2) Nightbringers in a game ?

When was the last time you saw someone use a 700+ point model?

Son of Makuta
27-01-2007, 18:58
Fact: All the Forgeworld Greater Daemons are intentionally overpowered - except when balanced against their costs. (Take Zarakynel, who's more or less equivalent to a Nightbringer but costs almost twice as much.) Ang'grath is mean as hell, easily able to beat up enemy hard stuff with relative impunity, but 888 points on one monster doesn't leave you with a lot of army to fight off the enemy's 2500-3000pts.

On the other hand: Toughness 9? What the hell? I thought T8 was GW's maximum... and 10 wounds is flipping ridiculous. Then again, just shoot the daemonhost on turn one and 777 points suddenly finds itself only staying alive by its ability to roll less than 11 on three D6 each turn. Then you just walk away from it. Or you could take three or four combat Carnifexes/eight combat Chaos Dreadnoughts for 777 points and whip his green sludgy behind.

Morgrad
27-01-2007, 19:09
Not really. 4 CC fexes, if you go +1 S scything/scything/tusked and get the charge, would be 24 attacks, hitting 6 times, wounding 5, he'd save 2 or 3. Then he'd spank one carnifex and be ready to beat the snot out of another next CC phase.

With +1S scything/claws/tusked (you could only bring 3, but lets say 4), if you maxed out with all 6s for your crushing claws, you'd get 36 attacks, hitting 12, wounding 10, he'd save 5, then kill a carnifex and be ready to beat the crap out of the others.

Oh, did I mention he'd go first against the carnifexs, so he'd kill one before it even got to go?

Without a similar FW beasty, a 'nid army can only realistically a) avoid it, or b) tar-pit it.

Prince Facestab
27-01-2007, 20:03
I think that you should take another look before you write of rending as useless. First off, how about taking implant attack? That'll cut the number required in half.

Also, it's worth noting that with his attacks, he only kills 3.5 genestealers a turn. A group with scything talons, implant attacks, and what the heck, scuttlers, because we like spending points, will take him down in 3 close combat rounds, and lose about 7 genestealers. Maybe his psychic powers would help; I don't know what they do.

In any case, a unit with half his cost can kill him in 3 turns of cc, and still have almost half of its models left. I'd say that's pretty darn good.

Dreachon
27-01-2007, 20:26
A large pack of genestealers with implant attack will take him down easily, I've had the same with anggrath, did about 18 wounds on the guy in a single round thanks to implant.
For 777pts I can take a lot of those genestealers and they will tear him to pieces in 1 round, failing that it'll be 2 rounds of cc.

Deadly Buddah
28-01-2007, 03:27
Christ, at 999 points big bird is going to need some absurd abuse of the deployment phase just to be even concievably viable. That said, even at just above half a small army, papa Nurgle should make for one hell of a good road block in a mega battle.

Yorkiebar
28-01-2007, 13:23
Christ, at 999 points big bird is going to need some absurd abuse of the deployment phase just to be even concievably viable. That said, even at just above half a small army, papa Nurgle should make for one hell of a good road block in a mega battle.He'll certainly deny a lot of victory points. You can be pretty certain he's going to survive any battle, especially if he gets into a prolonged close combat fight.

As for the Lord of Change, I'm thinking similar stats to what we've seen so far but with even more initiative/attacks. It'll be a winged close combat nightmare, of course and at 999 points I also expect to see mega psychic manipulation/destruction of anything on the board. An enhanced version of The Key (Chosen of Ahriman spell) would be nice, maybe able to teleport D6 units including vehicles. Survivability could be an issue - maybe a psychic field for 2+ or 3+ invulnerable.

We shall see...

Ravenous
28-01-2007, 21:31
I think that you should take another look before you write of rending as useless. First off, how about taking implant attack? That'll cut the number required in half.

Also, it's worth noting that with his attacks, he only kills 3.5 genestealers a turn. A group with scything talons, implant attacks, and what the heck, scuttlers, because we like spending points, will take him down in 3 close combat rounds, and lose about 7 genestealers. Maybe his psychic powers would help; I don't know what they do.

In any case, a unit with half his cost can kill him in 3 turns of cc, and still have almost half of its models left. I'd say that's pretty darn good.


A large pack of genestealers with implant attack will take him down easily, I've had the same with anggrath, did about 18 wounds on the guy in a single round thanks to implant.
For 777pts I can take a lot of those genestealers and they will tear him to pieces in 1 round, failing that it'll be 2 rounds of cc.

Ok a couple problems with your theroy.

1) Talons and implant attack are rare to put on genestealers unless you KNOW you are facing something like that.

2) You're assuming that the GUO will be standing there like a mook waiting for your uber stealers to charge him. In reality he will be supported by plauge marines and plauge bearers and will most likely appear right in front of your stealers heavy flamer the hell out of them before going at your 25+ point stealers.

3) the -1 attack aura would drop normal stealers down to 2 attacks. Ok 12 stealers = 24 attacks thats an average of 4 rending. 2 wounds. Yes implant attacks would kill him off faster. But I doubt that anyone would take implant stealers if they didnt know they were to face this guy.

4) Anggrath is I8 and gets around 10 attacks on the charge. stealers wouldnt stand up tp him.

The most common weapon that will kill this guy is the wraithcannon. And even then they are few and far between.

intellectawe
28-01-2007, 22:16
So wait. You need a special rule to deploy super heavies, yet not these demon lords?

Recockulous.

zendral
28-01-2007, 22:52
hmm...insane stats? naw. Things like abaddon's sword and force weapons could ruin any greater greater daemons day. At least they are not immune to little tricks like that. According to the rules, he isnt even immune to his own nurgle plague sword. When I think of this new nurgle creture, I imagine railheads circling and unloading, as with fire prisms.

Lord Malek The Red Knight
28-01-2007, 23:09
hmm...insane stats? naw. Things like... force weapons could ruin any greater greater daemons day.
still got to (a) survive to attack him, and (b) wound vs his Toughness. ;)

~ Tim

zendral
28-01-2007, 23:14
still got to (a) survive to attack him, and (b) wound vs his Toughness. ;)

~ Tim

well...surely nothing too trivial for abaddon, as (a) abaddon does not have to survive anything (has initiative 5, great unlcean one has 3), and (b) he does not have to wound with the sword, only hit

surely showing all daemons in whatever form or size, that they are his bi***;)

Actually, no-one has to survive anything with that poor initiative 3. they just need to hit and wound. good luck liby's and whatever else. Can't wraithcannons suck him into the warp? hell...they only have to roll decent.

Prince Facestab
28-01-2007, 23:20
Ok a couple problems with your theroy.

1) Talons and implant attack are rare to put on genestealers unless you KNOW you are facing something like that.

2) You're assuming that the GUO will be standing there like a mook waiting for your uber stealers to charge him. In reality he will be supported by plauge marines and plauge bearers and will most likely appear right in front of your stealers heavy flamer the hell out of them before going at your 25+ point stealers.

3) the -1 attack aura would drop normal stealers down to 2 attacks. Ok 12 stealers = 24 attacks thats an average of 4 rending. 2 wounds. Yes implant attacks would kill him off faster. But I doubt that anyone would take implant stealers if they didnt know they were to face this guy.

4) Anggrath is I8 and gets around 10 attacks on the charge. stealers wouldnt stand up tp him.

The most common weapon that will kill this guy is the wraithcannon. And even then they are few and far between.

I'm going to address these issues entirely out of order. Good thing you had numbers!

3) I was aware of this, and accounted for it in my calculations.

4) Actually, I can't address this one, as I don't know what Anggrath's stats are. But the Bloatman will only kill about 3.5 'stealers a turn, without psychic powers, but assuming that his nurgling attacks benefit from monstrous.

2) Well... yes. Kind of. What I am really assuming is that because I move faster than, and, due to the point difference, greatly outnumber the rest of the enemy army, the fight will be chosen on my terms. If he gets to flamer me, I will have only myself to blame for not using my advantages properly.

1) If someone took this guy without telling me, I would throw dice at his eyes.

How acceptable is it to take this guy without telling someone? Is it entirely legal, and accepted within the community? Accepted, but not nice? Or does one have to ask? I'm not entirely clear on this.

In any case, I think that tyranids are better off than most. Genestealers are one of a very few options that are both commonly seen, and certainly capable of at least removing this guy as a scoring unit, if not killing him. Others might be massed assault cannons (and I do mean massed), and a goodly number of lighted railheads.

zendral
28-01-2007, 23:25
I'm going to address these issues entirely out of order. Good thing you had numbers!

How acceptable is it to take this guy without telling someone? Is it entirely legal, and accepted within the community? Accepted, but not nice? Or does one have to ask? I'm not entirely clear on this.



Well...it is forgeworld. Generally I would think it a given to mention one has some foregworld models and what they are. Lol, I don't think I would throw dice, but I would be a bit upset. In any case, it is about impossible to not know they have forgeworld. And even if you knew they had forgeworld and didnt mention what they had exactly, you would have a pretty big clue as to where a 777 pt(ish) chunk went.

studderigdave
28-01-2007, 23:31
force weapons arnt going to be an issue, unless the librarian/ss/INQ can muster at least str 6 to wound, even then he is rolling 6's to wound than pappa still gets his 4+.

genestealers WILL drop him, as they drop most ANYTHING they hit on, personally i dont think a creature with rending should be able to wound something it NORMALLY cant wound with its own strngth, but thats just the nature of the beast.

lord_blackfang
28-01-2007, 23:48
I don't see the problem. Why would anyone be upset if facing this model? I would count my blessings. The enemy is effectively wasting half his points allowance on a useless model that you don't even have to deal with.

The only thing this fat loser can kill is whatever the daemonvessel can get into assault with before being possessed. So one unit at maximum. The only way for it to make its points back would be if for some reason you would keep driving Land Raiders into base contact with it.

Wraithbored
28-01-2007, 23:52
1) If someone took this guy without telling me, I would throw dice at his eyes.

If someone brought this model to a game I'd give them a hearty hand shake, a big friendly grin and a nice dinner at the nearby chinese restaurant after I beat the rest of his army and let this guy sit in the middle of the table not doing anything. :D

Ravenous
29-01-2007, 00:04
1) If someone took this guy without telling me, I would throw dice at his eyes.

How acceptable is it to take this guy without telling someone? Is it entirely legal, and accepted within the community? Accepted, but not nice? Or does one have to ask? I'm not entirely clear on this.
.

Well, Since there isnt a restriction on him as a super heavy (yet) really any tourny that allows forgeworld would allow it. Although it is madness to take him in 1500 or less points unless you want him doing all the work. I know at astronomicon they allowed a guy to take a barded heirodule, I should know I played him and that thing is nigh impossible to take down if you arent expecting it. I imagine this the GUO would be unstoppable.

In friendly games that would be a tad annoying. But legalish.

Sergeant Tanthius
29-01-2007, 00:10
Umm...Imagine taking this fella in 1000 points...It will be a huge point sink, but I don't think any army can take 10 wounds off a T9 Sv -/4+ in 6 turns, except perhaps Necrons.

Lord Malek The Red Knight
29-01-2007, 00:14
Umm...Imagine taking this fella in 1000 points...It will be a huge point sink, but I don't think any army can take 10 wounds off a T9 Sv -/4+ in 6 turns, except perhaps Necrons.
dunno mind, min/maxed Guard might manage it (6 Lascannons, plus Plasma and Krak, and maybe even some Ordnance).

3.5 Lascannon hits per turn (Sharpshooters) x 6 turns = 5.25 unsaved wounds alone.

it would be getting the 6 turns that would be the issue...

~ Tim
EDIT: Eldar w/9 D-cannons + 2 x Guide and Doom would have a pretty easy time of it, IMO... all from out of LOS too.

Sergeant Tanthius
29-01-2007, 00:16
dunno mind, min/maxed Guard might manage it (6 Lascannons, plus Plasma and Krak, and maybe even some Ordnance).

3.5 Lascannon hits per turn (Sharpshooters) x 6 turns = 5.25 unsaved wounds alone.

it would be getting the 6 turns that would be the issue...

~ Tim

He'll hit your line in about 4 turns, not enough time to shoot him.

Lord Malek The Red Knight
29-01-2007, 00:27
He'll hit your line in about 4 turns, not enough time to shoot him.
yeah, but thats still a 1/3 of his wounds gone, just from 240 pts worth of your army.

point for point, even with only 4 turns of shooting and average rolls, massed IG Lascannon fire would own him (on paper, at least), IMO.

~ Tim

bertcom1
29-01-2007, 00:42
Killing the thing after it arrives is difficult, however, at 1000pts, it's a struggle to get 2 Troops choices, so there is only going to be 1 or 2 potential demonhosts. Only one would be equipped with anything other than standard gear, so identifying the one that is the demonhost is greater than 50/50.

Focus any fast moving firepower, and any indirect firepower on the likeliest looking squad in turn 1, and that might just be game over.

Ravenous
29-01-2007, 01:08
I see it if your going to take one of the uber Daemons then you might as well take dread claws.

Only problem with them is they can get shot down on the way in.

intellectawe
29-01-2007, 01:23
Every army has was of dealing with it. Its an awesome model.

Sakura
29-01-2007, 02:32
Well for his points his stats do make sense.

The Flamer has a poor reach so he seems almost ignorable completly.
I would like to give him a battle cannon, Uber Hoick of doom and the Hflamer.
But he seriously wont do much in combat, you just cant kill him.
That doubling wounds thing should count on the unit not just multi wound models.