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Invid
26-01-2007, 18:21
I was wondering if it is legal to model a (say) Leadbelcher on a 50mm square base instead of a 40mm square base. Is there somewher in the rulebook that prevents this? Or is this perfectly legal? Might give soem advantages to LOS? other potential disadvantages?

Nekharoth
26-01-2007, 18:29
I can't quote the exact ruling on this, but I am almost certain that base sizes are fixed - 50mm x 50mm bases tend to be used for large monsters, etc. whereas monstrous sized units (ogres, rat ogres, trolls, etc.) should all be on 40mm x 40mm bases.

given that base size affects a lot of things - line of sight, war machine/spell templates, number of models in h2h combat, and so on, i think it's best to stick to the original base size.

Invid
26-01-2007, 20:30
ok thanks!~

Festus
26-01-2007, 20:31
Hi

p. 7 of the BRB details Base Sizes. Ogres are on 40x40. Note that the Hunter comes on 50x50 to rank up with his cats.

Festus

Carcass
27-01-2007, 02:29
and i would like to ask that some characters with steeds ( like the chaos lord/hero of khorne with the steed or the lord of nurgle ) come with a large base ( 40mm or 50mm i dont remember ). Does that mean that i can model a lord on a large base, even if he has a steed and not some monstrous creature ?

Festus
27-01-2007, 09:54
Hi

The Lords on large Bases come with Monstrous mounts (even if some of them doesn't look the part :( ). The Khorne and Nurgle one are on Daemonic Steeds (Monsters), Archaon has a named Daemonic Steed, and Tyrion has a multiwound Horse.

Festus

Capt_Ithuriel
19-02-2009, 08:22
Festus,
Is there ever given a description as to what a monsterous mount actually is? I thought a monsterous mount was one that fell under the "1-4 you hit mount, 5-6 you hit rider".
Since the Demon Steeds and Tyrion don't suffer from said rule, and gain all the bonus of "cavalry", I think there is a compelling argument that they should be on 25x50mm bases.

Joe

Neckutter
19-02-2009, 08:54
you must model the miniature on what comes within the box, sadly.

thus a metal OnG giant will be on a 50x50mm base, while a big plastic one will be on the oddly shaped 48mmx80mm base

Jagosaja
19-02-2009, 10:44
However, all the dragons except the High Elven one come on 50x50 bases, while HE comes on chariot base. What base size is for Vampire Counts Black Coach? What is the size of the base for VC Abyssal Terror, since the model does not exist? Zombie Dragon is bigger than HE Moon Dragon, so why stick it on a 50x50 when we can stick it on chariot base? What is the size of the base for Hellsteed?

Braad
19-02-2009, 12:03
Just put it on the bases they come with, this is generally accepted and I believe also confirmed by games workshop (though not in writing) to be the correct approach. There is no actual rule that specifies for each single model what size its on (would be a good thing though...), but it might not be accepted by others if you start using different ones.

For friendly play, if your friends don't mind, no-one is gonna stop you from using a different base though.

@ Jagosaja
Its not necessarily a logic choice. The old giant came on a 50x50, the new one came on a 75x50. However, if you field both models in one army, no-one can stop you from using 2 different bases, and I think using either of them can be argued. It has more to do with development of models, and the plastics are becoming larger all the time.

Abyssal terror, isn't that one supposed to be the replacement of that old model that had all kinds of animals glued together? So same base as that one, I guess.

And I stuck my wyvern on 50x100, as with 50x50 it would fall over as there is a lot of weight in the front part. GW fault I say, so I think no one could argue against it.

Jagosaja
19-02-2009, 12:18
And I stuck my wyvern on 50x100, as with 50x50 it would fall over as there is a lot of weight in the front part. GW fault I say, so I think no one could argue against it.

I guess I failed at it, but that was my point exactly. I did the same with my conversion of Zombie Dragon.

IIRC, someone said quite a while ago that one should not use a base smaller that it is supposed, but can use larger ones. I guess it is mostly due to conversions, but it can be used for other reasons, like you have mentioned.



Abyssal terror, isn't that one supposed to be the replacement of that old model that had all kinds of animals glued together? So same base as that one, I guess.

Not necessarily. It is a replacement of the old unit, but by description it could be anything, so I guess it should be on 50x50 base, although one can place it on chariot base for the same reason as above.

There still remains the question about Black Coach. I put it on a chariot base prolonged by two cavalry bases, for the steeds pulling it. So it comes to something like 150x50, which I have seen nowhere else, but noone seams to complain.

The main issue is about those models that have not come out yet and it is not clear what the base size should be. Like Hellsteed. I'd put it on cavalry base, others insist on 40x40 because of Pegasus Knights, I claim that it is not flying cavalry but a horse with the "fly" ability in its profile, so on and so forth, but there is no consensus.

nosferatu1001
19-02-2009, 12:41
The Daemonic mounts are listed in the WoC book as being cavalry on a 50mm base - they are not monstrous mounts.

Monstrous mounts are any mount that has more than 1 wound on their profile, and dont give improved armour saves etc (unless otherwise noted, like all things...)

Asmodiseus
19-02-2009, 13:32
Here is a copy of GW's official base size chart posted in a white dwarf

http://www.geocities.com/mi_whplayers/glwl.html

(Scroll down to other official league material)

It is a bit old, but is a good guide to go by.

Capt_Ithuriel
19-02-2009, 18:29
Monstrous mounts are any mount that has more than 1 wound on their profile, and dont give improved armour saves etc (unless otherwise noted, like all things...)

Nos, would you be so kind as to provide a page number citation in the BRB, as I can't seem to find the passage that you are talking about.
The only thing I can find about Monsterous Mounts is in the section Monstor section where it talks about how to randomize hits in shooting and how in melee you can attack either the character or the monster, and US 5.

As a HE player, my main interest is Tyrion. Malhandir is just a horse with better stats. Hell, if I really have to, I'll use the old 3e model that is on a cav base.

Joe

stripsteak
19-02-2009, 18:48
Ithuriel it's on page 59 of the BRB

Malhandir only has 1 wound so he is just a regular mount, not a monstrous mount. so the hits are not randomized and you only need to worry about Tyrion. He should be modeled on whatever base he came with, i think he comes with a cav base.

Nurgling Chieftain
19-02-2009, 19:27
Tyrion's horse comes on a 50mmx50mm base presumably because it used to be a monstrous mount. As a pretty ordinary elven horse now, I wouldn't see a problem with mounting it 25mmx50mm.

Bac5665
19-02-2009, 19:34
Except that it wouldn't come close to fitting.

All models can use the base they come with. For the most part, its that simple.

EldarBishop
19-02-2009, 19:48
It is generally accepted that models should be on the bases they come with. Putting them on a larger is generally seen as OK... however, putting them on a smaller base should not be done.

Neckutter
19-02-2009, 19:50
since tyrion comes with a 50mm base, he should be on a 50mm base. if GW ever gets around to changing what he comes with, then he can be on a smaller base. but it is a disadvantage for taking him, until things change. things that come with bases should be modeled with the base that they come with. for things that havent been made like the abyssal terror, use the BRB and see that it should be on a 50mm base. the hellsteed is a cavalry mount that flies, but not flying cavaly. it comes on a 25x50mm base.
for things like the black coach, it should be on a 50x100mm chariot base, but it doesnt fit. making it on a bigger base than normal, shouldnt be a problem as it doesnt give you an advantage, but a disadvantage. then again, this is just the general concensus of the WHFB community, and not in the BRB. some things like war machines dont come with bases and so dont need to be put on bases.

and all of the above should be taken with a grain of salt, because you and your opponent can agree to change anything in the rulebook or to follow or not follow any custom you want.

Braad
19-02-2009, 22:08
AFAIK, the thing about putting them on larger is okay and on smaller not is a 40K thing. In fantasy, officially (as far as that goes, since there is no actual written rule I'm aware of) they have to go on what they come with, not larger, not smaller.

Remember, by taking larger bases, you can easily do things like pull of more terror tests, increase range on spells that effect an area around a wizard... that kind of stuff.

Angelust
19-02-2009, 23:28
Or take items that affect everyone in base contact, as well as adding more ranks.

i.e. convert a model on foot to some silly chariot sized base, effectively giving you two ranks all by himself, using blood pendant or something to give everyone in B2B contact a S8 hit...ouch.

Shiodome
19-02-2009, 23:57
base sizes are sometimes a bit odd. my royal pegasus with hero on top comes with cavalry base, but pegasus knights come on large monster bases. i'd be inclined to swap the hero to a large base too regardless of rules.

Neckutter
20-02-2009, 06:16
your royal pegasus came with a 25x50mm base? i bought mine when the new brets came out in like 2003 and it was a 5th ed model and he came with a 40mm base. its the guy with his lance arm in a thrusting position, and he has a metal pegasus...

then again, when i bought my 4th ed zombie dragon he didnt come with a base at all, and so i made one gluing him onto 4 extra 20mm bases. (i used modelling clay to cover up the seems, he looks so funny)

at any rate, it should be evident what you should use for a base-size.

LKHERO
25-04-2009, 08:17
Do we have a verdict on Tyrion's base ruling?

Does it absolutely HAVE to be the 50x50 monster base or can it be cavalry?

Urgat
25-04-2009, 09:30
"Points at sig"
Tyrion goes on a 50x50 base, but still counts as cavalry and has unit strenght 2, btw.

rottahn
25-04-2009, 18:21
yes, he is on a 50x50 just like the special character lady from brettonia. silly, but there you go.