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Autarch Jay
26-01-2007, 17:31
im quite new to eldar and im desperate for some tips to help out

Bregalad
26-01-2007, 18:33
First advice: Have a look at the Eldar Tactica ( http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58780 ) and related threads in the Tactics forum. There are also different Eldar threads here (like on effectiveness of the new Fire Prism tank etc). Otherwise give us some direction on what info you need, whether you are new to 40k in general etc.

Karhedron
26-01-2007, 19:00
General tips. Eldar are a finesse army on the whole. Their units are fairly expensive which means that they are not particularly numerous (the only armies you will usually outnumber are Space Marines). They are also not particularly tough so they cannot take a lot of punishment.

What they have going for them is speed and striking power (both shooting and close combat). The general tactic with Eldar is to use your speed to bring your army to bear against just part of the enemy army at one time. You can then use your hitting power to annihilate the part of the enemy facing you while avoiding retribution from their colleagues.

Dire Avengers and Rangers/Pathfinders make excellent Troop choices so I would get a box of each to start with. Try some small games and add more units as you discover your playing style. Eldar are a very diverse army meaning that you can play almost any style of army that you want. The two most popular seem to be these at the moment.

Gunline and counter assault. This army has a core of very shooty units like Dark Reapers, War Walkers, Rangers and other units to hammer the enemy as they head towards you. Your HQ will often be a Farseer to Guide and Fortune your units while casting Doom on the enemy. When the weakened enemy reaches your line, your counter-charge units can finish them off. Good counter-charge units include Wraithlords as they can also mount 2 heavy weapons (meaning they can contribute well to your firing line too), Avatar as he makes all your units within 12" fearless and Harlequins.

This army does well against armies like Orks and Tyranids who tend to rush towards you.
Mechanized assault "Swordwind". This army focuses on speed. Most of your infantry will be riding in Wave Serpents or Falcons. Other fast units like Warp Spiders and Shining Spears also tend to feature. You HQ will often be an Autarch to lead the charge and provide a Reserve bonus in case you end up playing Escalation.

This army tends to do well against opponents who prefer to hang back and shoot you like Tau and Imperial Guard.

e033x
26-01-2007, 19:15
Have Fun! :p that is the most important thing about all races.

and dual fire prisms work really well against many things. ive used it against tyranids with exellent results. it won me the game really...

rcm2216
26-01-2007, 19:37
watch other Eldar players play a few games, then see what you like about what you saw and the units were used.

Autarch Jay
26-01-2007, 21:27
thx guys and im new to the game in general with 2k point force :)

*** 4 such a l8 reply my had power cut :(

The Song of Spears
26-01-2007, 21:45
If you have absolutely no models then i suggest going the eldar route, picking up units that are particular to eldar and work well...

Farseer

banshees

Fire dragons

Falcon grav tank

Fire prisim tank (2 if you can afford it, the new prisim cannon option is quite fun)

War walkers (3 if you can afford them, with scatter lasers they are totally tits)

Avengers and a wave serpent to teach tau what a "fish of fury" shout like :evilgrin:

stuff to avoid, IMHO...
Dark Reapers - there are better HS options...much better

Avatar - neat idea, but slow and not as versatile as a wraithlord

guardian jetbikes - shining spear are better, but i wouldnt even use spears that often...

wraithguard - near idea, powerful units, but so slow and low range that they are easily avoidable points sink...and they need baby sitters...

guardians/storm guardians - this is kinda awkward on the fluff, and really there are better more potent options out there.

Drasriath
26-01-2007, 21:54
Eldar are a very versatile force. I'd reccomend trying out some different lists, and try out different units that you like. Really, Eldar can be anything from the unbreakable, but slow battle lines of Iyanden, to the lightning quick, surgical strikes of Saim-hann.

I wouldn't reccomend buying models in bulk until you find what works for you.

Eldar strategy is all about synergy and finesse. They're one of the harder armies to play, but once you get the hang of them, they'll reward your skill alot more than many of the other forces in 40K.

Two things are very important to think about when building an Eldar list and playing it. What is this unit's job? and How best can I get this unit to do that job? Fire dragons are great for killing vehicles and heavy infantry, and will easily pay for themselves if they can reach those vehicles and heavy infantry... however, they will pull in a much worse return for your investment if they spend the whole game positioning themselves for a shot on those vehicles.

Eldar firepower is rather short range, but always as, if not more powerful than it's longer range counterparts, this means that the majority of your infantry (except dark reapers) will have to rely upon trapping the enemy, striking quickly, or herding them into firing range. because of this, the most versatile Eldar list is a very mobile one, with a wave serpent or two you'll be able to constantly flank your enemy and get your troops where they need to be. Another list building method that can be combined, and works for most every army, is one that forces a player to divide his or her shots between equally threatening components. Doing this means that he or she will likely not take any of them below half strength, and end up with no victory points!

Good luck with your army and have fun.

Autarch Jay
26-01-2007, 21:56
this is what i have at minute all made any hints wat to do with them
Autarch
Farseer with 2 warlocks

6 striking scorpions including exarch
6 howling banshees including exarch
6 fire dragons including exarch

2xgaurdians
dire advengers
10 gaurdians and heavy weopon platform and another warlock

6 swooping hawks plus exarch
5 warp spiders including exarch

2xwraithlords
falcon

Drasriath
26-01-2007, 22:03
If you have absolutely no models then i suggest going the eldar route, picking up units that are particular to eldar and work well...

Farseer

banshees

Fire dragons

Falcon grav tank

Fire prisim tank (2 if you can afford it, the new prisim cannon option is quite fun)

War walkers (3 if you can afford them, with scatter lasers they are totally tits)

Avengers and a wave serpent to teach tau what a "fish of fury" shout like :evilgrin:

stuff to avoid, IMHO...
Dark Reapers - there are better HS options...much better

Avatar - neat idea, but slow and not as versatile as a wraithlord

guardian jetbikes - shining spear are better, but i wouldnt even use spears that often...

wraithguard - near idea, powerful units, but so slow and low range that they are easily avoidable points sink...and they need baby sitters...

guardians/storm guardians - this is kinda awkward on the fluff, and really there are better more potent options out there.

Actually I'd argue that the avatar is one of the better HQ options right now. I would stray away from banshees, firstly, because I personally don't care for using them, and because their low strength makes them finnicky and unpredictable without a farseer to use doom on them. Dark Reapers got a huge buff and can throw statistically more hits downrange than a squad of warwalkers, and generally better hits. If you choose to use them, always take one of the powers. Fast Shot and a Missile launcher is a disgusting combo and always has been. But Crack Shot and a tempest launcher is also very tempting now, as Crack Shot negates cover saves, AND allows rerolls to wound now

Autarch Jay
26-01-2007, 22:13
to add to my army should i get striking scorps or darkreapers

studderigdave
26-01-2007, 22:20
dark reapers are great marine killers, but they are slow. i take scorpions for fluff reasons.

i would take your dragons and put them in the falcon for tank busting. i run 2 squads of dragons in my army. a larger squad of 8 in a serpent, and a smaller squad of 6 in a falcon.

Autarch Jay
26-01-2007, 22:35
thank you very much

Rangerrob
26-01-2007, 23:02
I'm a pretty big fan of the Guardian Jetbikes. Especially now that they are troop choices. Higher toughness thanks to the bike. Armor saves like the best aspect warrior. Twin linked S-Cats help with the 3 BS. S-Cannon on every third one helps with the tougher units.

I don't do this, but they would be even better putiing a Warlock with them, or your Autarch, or Farseer. (course all units get better when you add your HQ's)

Fast unit that can grab an end game objective too.

Wraithbored
26-01-2007, 23:18
I just wanted to say, don't be affraid to experiment with your own army composition. Try combos, with eldar it's a lot about synergy, see what units you can combien to make them click!

Dr.Clock
26-01-2007, 23:45
The scorpions are your best bet... you already have three heavy support slots filled. But investing in some transports will add greatly to the efficiency of the units you already have.

Some ideas for building an army around what you already have:

Basically you have three elements.

1: Wraithlords (armed with dual heavy weapons; bl/ml) advancing with guardian support (two squads; scatter lasers and warlock w/embolden)

2: fast harassment units to get behind enemy lines and strike vulnerable support units: hawks/spiders/autarch (another unit of either aspect can't hurt... but is not necessary)

3: a contingent of aspect warriors mounted in skimmers to apply overwhelming force directly to the weakest point in the enemy lines.

The last part can come with time (Avengers and banshees can support advancing gunline fo now) but I think you will find that the Dire Avengers, Fire Dragons and Banshees will do best when operating closely together from skimmers. Stick the Dragons in the falcon and then bulk the Banshees up to full strength and buy them and the Avengers serpents. Then you will have an effective assault force that can take the fight to the enemy while the wraithlords lay down fire. With a farseer riding along on a jetbike and Dooming targets, there will be very few formations that will stand up to the combined might of these units.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

inane-fedaykin
26-01-2007, 23:58
Required models:
Fire Dragons - There's almost no way you can get away with not having these guys in competitive play.
Farseer - Guide, doo(oooooooo)m and fortune are way too good to miss out on. Some people like the Avatar but he isn't nearly as reliable as this guy.
Wave Serpent - Your transport for units of more then 6 models. Their twin linked heavy weapons are devastating fire support and they're pretty hard to kill.
Models you'll probably want:
Dire Avengers - One of the best troop options. They're reliable, versatile and with the right options they're damn shooty.
Falcon - Tough as nails blessed by Cthulhu and can be tooled up to devastate something or be hurty against everything. This model gets under people's skin, nothing cheeses someone off like rolling a 6 and 1 against holofields.
Jet bikes - Cheap troop choice that can get pretty damn shooty. Use in multiples of 3 and always take the shuricannon.
Striking scorpions - I don't use em but everyone else seems hell bent on having them in their army.
Rangers - They own. With the pathfinder upgrade you can reliably give them a 2 or 3+ cover save and all snipers are great against high toughness models. Then there's the modified ap rule (not allowed to go into details) that may as well be rending on a 5+.
War Walker - 3 walkers with 2 scatter lasers or missle launchers on each are (as song of spears put it) tits.

studderigdave
27-01-2007, 01:46
i cant say enough good things about my scorpions. they might not have power weapons, but they have made their points back in all the games i play with them.

Orbital
27-01-2007, 02:48
Some people here say that the Eldar are "versatile", but I think that's a misnomer: The Eldar units are diverse, but not versatile in general. They are specialists. Each of the Aspect units has a job that they are good at to the exclusion of others. In fact, few Eldar units (Aspect are not) can switch easily from one task to another.

With this having been said, I recommend you bear it in mind: Each Aspect has a job that they're good at, so have them do that job and don't expect them to do much else. Dark Reapers are good at killing Space Marines at long rage, so don't expect them to be good at killing horde armies at long range, or killing anything from close range or in hand-to-hand. Striking Scorpions are great at dishing out tons of modestly-strengthed attacks, which makes them great horde-killers; don't send them after a Terminator squad (due to their great armor save). Howling Banshees are excellent at slicing through armor in close combat, but don't expect them to shoot their way through the battle. The list goes on and on.

Experience has taught me that non-Aspect units in the Eldar army can be kitted out to do various things, but it's best to give them one job and stick to it.

As a contrast, Marine armies are quite different than Eldar armies. Each Marine tends to be pretty decent at shooting, pretty decent at hand-to-hand, and pretty decent at shrugging off attackers with a healthy armor save. They are not, however, excellent at any *one* thing. They can respond to almost any threat with adequate skill, but they are never masters of a particular thing. This is the direct opposite of Eldar.

Play them as specialists and you will really see the magic happen.

Autarch Jay
27-01-2007, 09:24
thanks i'll keep that in mind but by going on info ive collected doesnt that mean ill get shot to bits in a open battle feild unless im ageanist armys like orks 'nids and maybe some space marine chapters?

Son-Of-Sparda
27-01-2007, 12:58
There should never be such a thing as an open battlefield. I remember when I started playing 40k (had just started Eldar) and my army would get shot to pieces by a SM army. Always.
Then I changed who I played with, and actually used terrain.

Anyways, you need to remember that the board should be covered with at least 25% terrain. Moreso, you need to remember that Eldar ARE very fragile, they should not be marched forward blindingly to get the smeg shot out of them- deploy them in cover, use infiltrate, use fast options- such as hawks, jetbikes/spears and spiders, give the aspects a wave serpent transport.

Best of luck, and well done for choosing one of the most rewarding armies to play.

Autarch Jay
27-01-2007, 13:22
k ill remember that
and thanks

Autarch Jay
27-01-2007, 14:22
gatherin everytin u allsed i came up with getting either

striking scorpions
or
shining spears
or
gaurdian jetbikes

which one should i get first how to use it or them

Orbital
27-01-2007, 14:45
I realize this isn't what you're looking for, but I'll tell you that it's not which unit you buy, but how you play. Buying all the "best" units can't help you win if you don't play the army the way it's intended to be played and if you don't have a few tactical tricks up your sleeve.

As for the three things you mentioned, you can probably make your own decision as to what's best.

Scorpions are a good infiltrating horde-assault unit for a medium point cost. Good for assaulting Tyranids or Orks or Guard, not as good for power armor (especially heavy infantry like Terminators).

Shining Spears are a fast unit of powerful hit-and-run assaulters with some limited tank-killing ability for a medium-to-high point cost. Good against Power Armor on the charge, but shouldn't get stuck in a fight (as their charge is their ace card and, once that's over, it's hard for them).

Jetbikes are a fast troops unit with modest shooting and assaulting ability for a low price cost. Good support squad for assault or shooting and also great for capturing objectives.

The question you have to ask yourself is: What is your current army list missing that it could use? Do any of these units fill a hole that your current list can't make up for?

With your various armies, Eldar in particular, it's how the pieces work together that makes your list strong.

Autarch Jay
27-01-2007, 15:03
thank you for that that brought some light on things (seriosly)

wouldi be able to use striking scorpion to tie up an enemy so the rest of the army can catch up?

Meticulous
27-01-2007, 20:40
would i be able to use striking scorpion to tie up an enemy so the rest of the army can catch up?

If you can get the Scorpions there before the rest of the army, very probably. Infiltrate works wonders here. Ram 'em into a particularly juicy unit you don't want doing anything for a few turns (via Infiltrate, of course), and bam.

Orbital
27-01-2007, 20:47
thank you for that that brought some light on things (seriosly)

wouldi be able to use striking scorpion to tie up an enemy so the rest of the army can catch up?

This is 100% my perspective. Take it for what it's worth:

I tend to think of assault units in two flavors: The ones that are meant to sh*tkick the enemy, and the ones that are meant to tie up the enemy until the other kind can arrive.

Scorpions tend to be the first kind. They're not so much of a "Keep the enemy busy" unit as they are a "Punch a hole through the enemy" unit.

Karhedron
27-01-2007, 20:56
My biggest piece of advice would be to experiment in order to find out the following 2 things.

1. What style of play suits you.
2. What units work bets for you in that style of play.
The reason I say this is that a lot of people are recommending units to you without considering their context. As Orbital has pointed out, most Eldar units are quite specialised (only Guardians and Dire Avengers come close to being generalists). Someone could recommend Dark Reapers as an excellent unit (and they certainly have their uses) but if you find you favour a highly mobile style of army then there may be better units for you. Simmilarly, some people have suggested stearing clear of Banshees but mine usually work very well for me.

Work out what style of army you want to play and then let that decision guide the units you opt for. The new Eldar codex is pretty well balanced (especially compared to the old one) and I feel that most units in there are competative choices when used in the right context.

Autarch Jay
27-01-2007, 21:23
k ill try experimenting but uasually my style of play is to take hits on my troops and counter with fast attack,elite and hvy support. or against ig or armys like them i use fast attack to keep thm down while i move the hulk of the force forward are these gd strategys or wat do i need to improve

Karhedron
27-01-2007, 21:45
Hi Autarch Jay. No offence intended but a little more punctuation and a little less abreviations would make your posts a lot easier to read.

Taking the brunt of the enemy force on your troops choices is not necessarily the best idea with Eldar as they tend to be somewhat fragile. If that is your favoured style of play then the units for you are probably Dire Avengers (with an Exarch with Defend and Shimmer shield) and/or possibly Wraithguard (count as a Troop unit if you take 10 in a squad, very expensive though).

Keep a Farseer nearby to cast Fortune on these troops as this will boost their survivability. If you are taking Dire Avengers, then an Avatar nearby could be a good choice as he will make them Fearless and provide some impressive counter-charge muscle if they get assaulted. Avengers with Defend and Shimmer shield can hold off most opponents until some allies can arrive to bail them out.

MAGUNRA3K
27-01-2007, 22:54
In my veiw an avatar is now a must (get the forge wolrd one if you can hes great) ,hes and absolute beast and causes any enemy general to start sweating thinking about what happens when he gets in to swinging range !

Autarch Jay
28-01-2007, 08:41
ok ill try not to use so many abreviations

ok im goin to experiment with different tactics on wednesday. ill be playing a 1000 point battle against necrons. any tips are welcome

Lezta
28-01-2007, 10:11
ok ill try not to use so many abreviations

ok im goin to experiment with different tactics on wednesday. ill be playing a 1000 point battle against necrons. any tips are welcome

Dark Reapers are your friends against Necrons. As are Banshees if you give them a transport or just keep them in cover well enough. If you're careful with them a squad of Fire Dragons can actually be rather useful too.

Autarch Jay
28-01-2007, 10:30
thanks for the info but i dont have dark reapers :( u can see what ive got on page 1

Orbital
28-01-2007, 12:11
thanks for the info but i dont have dark reapers :( u can see what ive got on page 1

So much for not using any more abbreviations. :)

What you've got on page 1 is a pretty solid anti-Necron roster. I can't tell you what list to make, but here are some suggestions:
- A Falcon equipped with a Scatter Laser or Starcannon carrying Fire Dragons could move up to a pesky Necron squad, have the Fire Dragons jump out, and pour as many as 15 heavy weapon shots into that squad.
- Howling Banshees would allow you to cut down Necrons with power weapons, which nullifies their 3+ saves (and may also nullify the WBB roll, but you'd have to ask a Necron player about that).
- The Farseer's Doom power for use on difficult enemy squads combined with the Fortune power on your front-line guys (I suggest the Dire Avengers wherever possible) is going to really help you pry out any hard-to-kill Necron units.
- The Swooping Hawks were practically invented to destroy Monoliths!
- Wraithlords need no endorsement. They're never a bad choice.

Rioghan Murchadha
28-01-2007, 12:13
One thing people have left out that is vitally important.

** Edited by the WarSeer =I= **

RIOGHAN MURCHADHA - Be very careful what you are posting. those comments are very inflammatory. You already have had one warning from BRIMSTONE about flaming.

Orbital
28-01-2007, 13:04
One thing people have left out that is vitally important.

Get yourself a nice fancy dress to wear when playing effeminate elves in space. Eldar, like Elves, are very form over function people. It doesn't matter if you lose, as long as you look good doing it.

Actually, he brings up an excellent point that you might not realize if you're new to playing Eldar: Before your opponents lose to you, they're going to call you gay. After they lose to you, they're going to call you cheesy. Most of the time, those are the only two things you're ever going to hear. Even more baffling is that, for some reason, they will always think they were the first ones to come up with it. The ones who are really insecure in their sexuality are going to lay it on extra thick and, as the basic Marine sculpts will amply demostrate, the community is full of people like that... so brace yourself.

Achilles
28-01-2007, 13:54
One thing people have left out that is vitally important.

Get yourself a nice fancy dress to wear when playing effeminate elves in space. Eldar, like Elves, are very form over function people. It doesn't matter if you lose, as long as you look good doing it.

Ever got your ass kicked by a girly-man with a black belt in teakwondo?:D

And it should be: It doesn't matter if you lose, as long as you had fun doing it...

Autarch Jay
28-01-2007, 13:54
lol kk ill keep that in mind thanks for the slight walk through of the units orbital :)

Rangerrob
28-01-2007, 14:00
One thing people have left out that is vitally important.

Get yourself a nice fancy dress to wear when playing effeminate elves in space. Eldar, like Elves, are very form over function people. It doesn't matter if you lose, as long as you look good doing it.

Eldar players also take showers before they show up at the game store. Unlike some players of other armies who feel daily hygine is optional.

Autarch Jay
28-01-2007, 14:04
What is a good unit for knocking down a night bringer?

Jambo
28-01-2007, 14:14
What is a good unit for knocking down a night bringer?

I'm unsure of the specific stats of a Nightbringer (ie how good his invulnerable save is) but for similar big beasties a good combo is pathfinders shooting at a doomed target. You should be putting out lots of AP 1 shots which wound reliably with that combination of units. This kind of shows what the other guys have been saying, one unit isn't always the answer with Eldar, often its better to see if there is a pair of units that compliment each other well.

Autarch Jay
28-01-2007, 14:17
night bringer ws 6 bs 4 str 10 toughness 8 ld 10 i 4 save 3+ invaunrable

Achilles
28-01-2007, 14:32
Eldar players also take showers before they show up at the game store. Unlike some players of other armies who feel daily hygine is optional.

Isn't it? :p

@ Autarch jay: Taking down the nightbringer (have to say, if your opponent likes you since this is your first game with eldar, shouldnt bring) is easy. it will need 3 turns to get in reach of anything in your army, exept shoot his gun. Ignore it, shoot as many warriors as you can, try to take out that one lord with a ressurection orb and the nightbringer will phase out along with everything else... and never having recieved a shot.:angel:

Autarch Jay
28-01-2007, 14:38
ok thanks alot for telling me that i honestly didnt know it would be that easy

Achilles
28-01-2007, 14:48
You know what Phase out does?

If the amount of models in the army with the NECRON special rule drop below 25% (i.e. if he has 40 to start on his army list with and has 9 left) after all 'we'll be back' rolls (necrons get back up at the start of their turn, unless auto killed or cut down by power weapons (the ressurection orb counters this. thats why it has to go!). they have to be within 6"of another functioning necron unit) have been made, the entire army phases out and leaves the table, including all NON-NECRON units. auto-win for the opponent.

C'tan are not NECRON, neither are scarabs, tomb spiders, pariahs & the monolith.
Warriors are NECRON, as are Lords, Immortals, Flayed ones, Wraiths & destroyers.

so try to kill as many NECRON models as u can, but be carefull for some of the others. (scarabs can be very, very nasty)

Autarch Jay
28-01-2007, 14:50
thank you ill definite keep this in mind for my upcomin battle once again thanks :)

Achilles
28-01-2007, 15:01
Good units against Necrons (in my humble opinion. i play both eldar and 'crons) are fire dragons, Dark reapers, and a good equipped falcon. a farseer with doom & guide never hurts either, and rangers/pathfinders work well to.(esspecially if that night bringer comes to close)
stay at long range with most of your units, and fire dragons with tank-hunter are still str. 9 against a monolith. not to dangerous, if he uses one wrong, but the recycle enginge can halt phase out for quite some time.

but like i said earlier... losing aint wrong. look, listen & learn. try stuff out. & have Fun ;)

L' aéronautique d' Eldar
28-01-2007, 15:14
Now what you must do is bring loads of cheese along for a game, paint your entire army yellow/orange, and bring loads of cheesy units.... that'll + removed by WS =I= +of anybody!:cool:

Autarch Jay
28-01-2007, 15:53
k i like the cheesy idea and using the falcon and fire dragons is no prob ppl seemto like that strategy but once again i dont have dark reapers.

philbrad2
28-01-2007, 16:24
This is getting way off topic here.

Everyone watch you tone in posting and comments made.

AUTRACH JAY - Please cease with the 'text speak' its contrary to forums posting guidelines.

PhilB
:chrome:
+ WarSeer =I= +

Zubb
28-01-2007, 17:02
Oh, don't bother Dragons with liths(theya are only S8 due to living metal), send them boiling Necron Models so they won't be coming back.

studderigdave
28-01-2007, 17:21
this may sounds odd, but in most games i play against necrons i just ignore the monlith. monoliths have never been game breakers for me. the only time i seek out the monolith is when i play orks, cuz da boyz love droppin them. my warboss has a good track record with dropping monoliths with his str 10 PK.

anyways, against necrons i would run in with dragons, and banshees. i personally dont use banshees, but if you can get a farseer to "doom" a squad of warriors than have the banshees charge, your most likely gonna take a good chunk out of the squad.

Mojaco
28-01-2007, 18:03
I actually thought that what Rioghan said was funny... :)

I suggest Warp Spiders over anything. Fire Dragons and Falcon work well, but it never feels good that they die after their one moment of glory at least half the time, because normally you just rush them forward to get that big fat pie-plate pomping tank.

Secondly, never underestimate guardians. Yes, they suck. But so badly, that your opponent is likely to not shoot at them until they're the only option left. That meas that most of the time I can make use of their heavy weapon platform for 5 or 6 turns, which is bound to do something in that time. I take a bright lance, just because that means you can kill anything, so it can never be fully ignored.

And wraithguard ARE good. Just don't walk them across an open table and they're great for locking stuff in HtH, shooting something juicy and holding objectives.

edit; In responce to post ~41: wraithguard have the best chance of killing a C'Tan. Wound on a 2+, instakill on a 6. Otherwise pathfinders/rangers are fine.
In responce to monolith topic: if have the proper equipment, kill it. The monolith adds too much mobility to the necrons, something you want to keep your property. And the sheer volume of firepower it can dish out when it manages to corner you (at ap 4, mind you!) hurts a lot.

Achilles
28-01-2007, 18:26
Oh, don't bother Dragons with liths(theya are only S8 due to living metal), send them boiling Necron Models so they won't be coming back.

S9 with tank hunter... and AP1 so always penetrating

Fortune em... and kick ass
o, and if you add your autarch to the unit for some CC punch and give him a fusion gun, he gets Tank hunter to. and now for the real cheese... add the farseer to the unit with a singing spear thats str 10 against any tank... even the monolith

Karhedron
28-01-2007, 19:21
What is a good unit for knocking down a night bringer?

Rangers are very good as they always wound on a 4+ regardless of toughness. The psychic power "Mind War" can also cause a lot wounds on a C'tan in one go. Lastly, Wraithcannons are pretty good as they always wound on a 2+ and on a 6 they negate the invulnerable save. The only trouble is that they only have a 12" range meaning if they fail to kill Nightbringer, he will probably charge them in the next turn and kill them.

Karhedron
28-01-2007, 19:23
S9 with tank hunter... and AP1 so always penetrating
Nope, Monolith's living metal rule negates any penetration bonuses such as Tank Hunter. Basically they can only hurt it on a 6, not great odds.


Fortune em... and kick ass
Fortune only works if you have an armour save to reroll in the first place. Necrons have lots of AP4 guns and given the damage that Fire Dragons can do, you can bet they will all be pointing at them in a hurry.

Orbital
28-01-2007, 19:45
losing aint wrong. look, listen & learn. try stuff out. & have Fun ;)

This is so right. If you play the game the way it should be played then you'll enjoy your losses as much as you enjoy your victories.

DoctorTom
28-01-2007, 22:33
Good units against Necrons (in my humble opinion. i play both eldar and 'crons) are fire dragons, Dark reapers, and a good equipped falcon. a farseer with doom & guide never hurts either, and rangers/pathfinders work well to.(esspecially if that night bringer comes to close)
stay at long range with most of your units, and fire dragons with tank-hunter are still str. 9 against a monolith. not to dangerous, if he uses one wrong, but the recycle enginge can halt phase out for quite some time.

but like i said earlier... losing aint wrong. look, listen & learn. try stuff out. & have Fun ;)

If you can stay at long range, a pair of Fire Prisms is also good against Necrons - you can have them either dropping a large blast template S6 AP3 on a group of infantry (or Destroyers, if he's using those), or combine into a focused blast on a Monolith - S10 AP1 means that you'll penetrate half the time you hit.

Warp_touched
28-01-2007, 23:08
Recently my greatest sucess is with my new bought Wave Serpent and Dire Avengers. Move up the board to a relativley small squad (or large, it makes little diffirence. ) and use Bladestorm, then the next turn, attack the either the badly mauled small squad, or fly into combat with the large squad with your Avengers. Shimmershield here is gold.

The best result so far is a retreat off the board and a Massacure! result.

Autarch Jay
29-01-2007, 16:36
thank you for all the hints but i have to admit weve come off subject so lets go off the necrons.

Rioghan Murchadha
31-01-2007, 11:51
** Edited by the WarSeer =I= **

RIOGHAN MURCHADHA - Be very careful what you are posting. those comments are very inflammatory. You already have had one warning from BRIMSTONE about flaming.

Hmm.. I guess what passes for inflammatory in Europe is different from North America. I didn't see that as particularly insulting or inflammatory.. especially seing as I spent 15 years playing High Elves in WFB...

xenoknight
31-01-2007, 15:49
Dark Reapers are good at killing Space Marines at long rage, so don't expect them to be good at killing horde armies at long range, or killing anything from close range or in hand-to-hand.

Dark Reapers are good at killing anything at long range. If you are worried about hordes take the reaper exarch with fast shot and an eldar missle launcher or tempest. To say they are not good at killing horde armies is just silly. Of course they aren't good at hth that is why they have a 48" range weapon :chrome:

Orbital
31-01-2007, 16:24
Dark Reapers are good at killing anything at long range. If you are worried about hordes take the reaper exarch with fast shot and an eldar missle launcher or tempest. To say they are not good at killing horde armies is just silly.

Your comment about Dark Reapers being good at killing anything from long range is just not true. Putting aside the fact that there are a lot of high-toughness models (like a Hive Tyrant), models with great armor saves (like Terminators) and models with invulnerable saves (certain Daemons and HQ units), a little bit of cover can go a long, long way to neutralizing the power of the Reaper Launcher... and the healthy but modest S5 is far from a good solution for tank-killing.

10 or 11 shots from a single 5-man unit don't offer a lot of horde-killing payback once missed shots, failed wounds and cover come into play. The Tempest Launcher definitely has some potential to increase Horde-killing, I'll agree there. The Missile Launcher though? There are other ways to get EMLs into the game without spending the points an Exarch requires (and a lot of those other options can move-and-shoot).


Of course they aren't good at hth that is why they have a 48" range weapon :chrome:
I think you misunderstood my comment: I wasn't saying they should be good at hth or that I expect them to be. Merely that they aren't, so don't put them in that position.

inane-fedaykin
31-01-2007, 19:03
Am I the only one that finds the tempest launcher a massive waste of points?
It's a guess weapon, it has less strength then the reaper launcher and who cares if it's a blast weapon? You're probably only going to get 2 partial hits anyway.

xenoknight
31-01-2007, 20:00
I'll just say I have never had a problem getting my points back out of a reaper squad in any scenario I have played with them.

Jimbobjeff
31-01-2007, 20:24
Personally I love the tempest launcher, just combine it with fast shot and watch the marines/crons die, especially if the crons are using the veil of darkness(they all end up in base to base contact......) nothing like hitting a unit 3 times each with ap3 shots to make sure it dies.....

inane-fedaykin
01-02-2007, 00:54
I admit that in such a situation the tempest launcher would be bad ass, if everything is clumped you're probably getting 1 hit and 2 partials per blast so you're commin out to 3 dead models. Not bad, certainly better things out there and I'd tend to think the EML would be a better idea anyway.

Orbital
01-02-2007, 01:17
I'll just say I have never had a problem getting my points back out of a reaper squad in any scenario I have played with them.

Me neither. It's my first choice for Heavy Support.

Sgt Biffo
01-02-2007, 01:24
WarWalkers work well in your back line where they become a target of opportunity rather than a direct threat.

In stead of using their scout move to advance on to the feild, use it to move laterally and support other advancing units.

Mojaco
01-02-2007, 07:16
Tempest launchers is a lot better combined with crack shot instead of fast shot. Here's why:
- Cheaper
- Ignores Cover
- Re-rolls to wound
- 2/3 of number of fast shot hits
That last point is the only drawback, and you'll see that statistically the re-roll alone will make up for it against MEQ (it's prime use). Combine that with no cover save, something any good meq player will have with the more vital units (devestators?), and you're killing a lot more then with fast shot.