PDA

View Full Version : Overcoming an empire gunline at 500 points with chaos



skyly
27-01-2007, 21:52
Hello everyone

A friend of mine who thinks its cool to play with the following army (stil playing with the 6the edition book, so the helblaster is stil god)

Battle wizzard with 2x dispel scrol
5 knights
a helblaster
And the rest spent on handgunners

Basicly nothing works against this. Movment doesnt help as he can shoot you up
in 2 turns, I can shoot him back, Magic at this level against 3 DD and 2 scrols is impossible and Close combat is usealy a few ungors or warhounds getting choped by knights. Ambushing didnt work because I already spilited a verry smal force into 2 halfs. Things like chaos knights just get mowed down by handgunners.

So i was thinking about making a army as big as possible, to just soak up the shooting and then overwhelm his army.

Wargorr - great weapen, heavy armor, shield,
Wargorr - heavy armor - bsb - gorr banner

Beast herd wich both wargors join - 5 gors, 22 ungors - standard
Besst herd - 5 gor, 5 ungor
beast herd - 5 gor, 5 ungor
5 warhounds in ambush
5 warhounds in ambush

59 models, Would that be enough? Or shal i drop the bsb and add another herd, that gives :

Wargorr - great weapen, heavy armor, shield,

Beast herd the wargors join - 5 gors, 22 ungors - standard
Beast herd - 5 gors, 20 ungors
Beast herd - 5 gor, 5 ungor
beast herd - 5 gor, 5 ungor
5 warhounds in ambush
5 warhounds in ambush

83 models, its getting impressive eh?

Tactic would be to have the smal beast herds to shield to big herds, and whats left of them should charge the knights and the rest of the herds go after the wizzard, handgunners and helblasters.

What do you people think about a massive zerg of gors? would it work? Suggestions? I personly think it has potential :angel:

skyly
27-01-2007, 21:57
I can field anything from dragon ogre shaggoth to bloodletters, so that shouldn\t be a problem :)

Neknoh
27-01-2007, 22:02
Your heards are far too small

You don't want panicktests after 3 casualties, you want your heards to keep the standard size of 8 Gors and 12 Ungors, this won't cost many points and will be able to soak up fire quite well

Add in a unit of Furies as well as a Beast Chariot and you should be set

Wings of Doom
27-01-2007, 22:03
I would even out the herds- big herds with 15 ungor and small herds with 10.
This means that the small herds will panic less often, and not cause panic in your other herds.
I would infact ambush three herds, instead of the hounds, as the hounds are faster. That means you can get into a second turn charge distance with the hounds and have the herds on a flank- he has to turn to one, and so you flank charge with the other.
The Hellblasters the real problem. Not having to roll to hit makes it a herd-killer, along with 360 degree line of sight.
Personally, I would try to take some furies (a small unti) to fly infront of him on the first turn- if he's on a hill, this will block his line of sight. They'll die, but they'll save your important herds from a turn of shooting.

Neknoh
27-01-2007, 22:08
Oh, just remembered the most crucial thing, buy him the latest Empire book :P

skyly
27-01-2007, 22:24
wargor - great weapen
5 chaos furies
Spawn of the slanesh - I figure these are great to hold the knights

beast herd - 5 gors, 30 ungors , wargor joins here
Beast herd - 5 gors, 31 ungors

9 kills for a panic test, doable it seems

skyly
27-01-2007, 22:25
Oh, just remembered the most crucial thing, buy him the latest Empire book :P

This thread is now over :p

Neknoh
27-01-2007, 22:37
Doable, yes, effective? No

You will want more Gors in those units to actually dish out hurt once combat is joined.

and I would deffinately go for 6 or 7 furies

And I would preffer a Chariot to the Spawn

sabre4190
27-01-2007, 22:47
well make sure he knows that the volley gun rolls to hit before you fit him. hell hit one alot less if you tell him that.

if you have screamers, take them. they are my favorite unit and never fail me. they can get a second turn charge and will slice apart his units.

skyly
27-01-2007, 22:47
There is just not enough room for all those things
naked wargar, 6 furries and a charriot is already 270 points

Neknoh
27-01-2007, 22:49
Then lower the size of the Herds, they'll survive quite well without having a bodycount of 35

chivalrous
27-01-2007, 23:04
If he's spelling 'wizzard' like that I shouldn't worry too much. It'll spend most of its time either pealing bananas or running away:p


His army doesn't look like it could really cause much damage.
Assuming the 'wizzard' is L2 then he'll only be ably to bring 15 handgunners onto the field, that's only one unit (with minimum US 10). As soon as it's engaged in close combat it will be well and truly stuffed.


Seriously though, you want to engage his force as quickly as possible and that means at least one unit of Furies and possibly a unit of Centigors too.

Target the handgunners first with furies, they should have the unit running away pretty quickly.

The knights are likely to be the hardest target so you probably want to be fairly canny with your own movement. Lure them into a false charge, flee with the bait unit and charge with another unit. Your unit strength and a standard should give you an advantage, even if you're using all ungors :)

The hell blaster is a lot less powerful than it used to be, especially against skirmishers. if you're worried, send aother fast unit or two against it. A couple of units of 10 warhounds should do you fine, running as fast as they can towards the machine. to be honest, your opponent will likely be more worried about the Furies hitting his lines.

As to your character, is the Wargor the cheapest character you can take?
the BSB is a point sink and really the beast heard units want to be someting like 5 gors, 10 ungors with a standard.
A chariot is also something of a luxury in a low point game.
How many points does this come to?:-

Cheapest Hero character with heavy armour and shield.
Beastheard unit 1; 5 gors, 10 Ungors, standard
Beastheard unit 2; 5 gors, 10 Ungors, standard
7 Furies
6 Warhounds
6 Warhounds

any spare points can bolster your furies or warhounds

Even with the handgunners getting a stand and shoot reaction, they'll be hitting on 6+ (basic 4+, skirmishers, -1to hit and charge -1 to hit)
so you houldn't suffer too many casualties that way, that's assuming they even pass their fear test, which if their commander is a wizard, is a 50/50 chance.

Neknoh
27-01-2007, 23:19
The Wargor is the cheapest of all Chaos heroes, and Beastmen Chariots cost below 90 pts

chivalrous
27-01-2007, 23:27
The Wargor is the cheapest of all Chaos heroes, and Beastmen Chariots cost below 90 pts

True enough with the chariots, but with so much armour piercing firepower, they don't tend to last long. They're also quite slow, and without a march move, aren't going to get to the enemy lines until turn 3 at the earliest. The knights will have a pretty easy job of knocking them out as well.

On a separate subject, are there special rules for 500 point games regarding minimum unit sizes? Or do the usual rules still apply (usually 10+ for infantry units)?

Hywel
28-01-2007, 00:21
Take a load of small hound units. Keep them behind terrain or each other during deployment. Turn 1 send them all flying off at full tilt towards the missle regiments.

He can shoot one with the helblaster. Probably do reasonable damage to a second with the handgunners, maybe charge a third with the knights. Costs 90pts of your army to force him into reacting like this or probably lose the helblaster. General somewhere nearby should limit the worst effects of panic.

Without the helblaster his army can't stop beast herds, which with a great weapon wielding wargor will kill the remainder of his army.

Countering a gunline is simply a case of having cheap, fast, expendable units he can't possibly get rid of in time. Once the distance is closed he has a solitary reactive unit.

If you have them and can protect them, mounted daemonettes cause all sorts of trouble for armies like this.

dominic_carrillo
28-01-2007, 02:23
make the beastherds bigger and put three herds in ambush. drop the warhounds and buy more beasts. the skirmishers should last longer than some measly dogs

dominic_carrillo
28-01-2007, 02:25
True enough with the chariots, but with so much armour piercing firepower, they don't tend to last long. They're also quite slow, and without a march move, aren't going to get to the enemy lines until turn 3 at the earliest. The knights will have a pretty easy job of knocking them out as well.

On a separate subject, are there special rules for 500 point games regarding minimum unit sizes? Or do the usual rules still apply (usually 10+ for infantry units)?

the minimun unit sizes are halved, rounding up. so trolls (minimum 3 normally) can be fielded in groups of two.

Makarion
28-01-2007, 06:31
It depends on what rules you use. Warband and Border Patrol have their own, and mutually exclusive, rules. Both rules should be on the US GW site as a pdf.