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Vladimir Deathblade
28-01-2007, 22:03
I never used the old stank, as they were far to complex, and just lead to complaints. (Understandably! I hated fighting the old ones! :cheese: )

However, the new rules are greeted with much more satisfaction.

Anyway, I was wondering if you had any pointers for how to use it effectivly, either as a rather expensive mobile canon, or a putre combat unit. (although a mix of the two is probably a better bet.)

Thanks a lot,
Deathbalde

Atrahasis
28-01-2007, 22:58
Its not worth the 300 point price tag.

A single volley from a blackpowder unit or a S5+ magic missile (god forbid Lore of Metal) and the tank is all but immobilised.

That said, if you really do want to use it, then combat is where it belongs. As many steam points as possible should be put to use to charge/grind, with the cannon/steam gun being an added bonus when no charges are possible or lots of steam points would be risky.

Xavier
29-01-2007, 01:15
Uh, its toughness 6 with a 1+ save, how does "a single volley from a black powder unit" make it immobile?

They wound on 6's and it gets a 3+ save.

Varath- Lord Impaler
29-01-2007, 01:37
Atrahasis is one of the many on the interent.

Because it CAN happen, means it WILL happen almost every time.

Which of course isnt true.

I'd say use it offensively to take fire away from other cannon magnets such as Knights

Also moving it at the same rate as an infantry unit next to it could provide mobile cover to it from a flanks worth of firepower.

but again, in combat it can tear anything apart, just give it time and trust in luck.

Kedlav
29-01-2007, 05:13
Don't play against armies with cannon-type artillery or bolt thrower heavy types (Dwarves, Skaven, O&G, CD, etc.). While the terror here would be great, the fact that it will be beaten to a pulp in turn one by a cannon or bolt thrower volley means it is a point sink. Against other armies, use it as a giant pit trap against tough units. It can grind and it probably will hold against most anything save Chosen Knights and BO lords in melee, giving you time to flank with a small unit to break and run down a unit that would otherwise chew through Empire. In the main though, its something that should be left at home, as 2 wounds and the thing is cooked.

Varath- Lord Impaler
29-01-2007, 05:23
Why? 3 steam points= 9 inches

DeathlessDraich
29-01-2007, 14:02
I certainly prefer the old Steam Tank but the new one has its uses too.
In addition to the good pts mentione d by Kedlav can I add:

1) Use the maximum Steam points available e.g. if 5 are available then move with 3 and shoot with 2.
2) Deployed with the gunline it can a) defend the other warmachines b) protect against Tunnelers, ambushers etc c) It can shoot its cannon while waiting at the back.
3) Used in the centre: a) Charge only if other units can support it subsequent turns b) Use Terror and the Steam Gun more often in the crowded centre c) Don't forget to use the Repeater Pistol - I've been guilty of this many times!
4) Declare 1 SP more than may be needed to ensure that it reaches the unit it charges.
5) It is better to a) charge and grind rather than charge and shoot Steam. b) Charge a unit already engaged in combat - i.e. Shove a unit of Flagellants towards the enemy and then charge with the Steam Tank
6) As Kedlav said, it has to be wary of a) Cannons. b) Also be wary of Tyrants, Kroxis, most Warmachines, hard hitting characters/units. c) The Flee reaction - A ST ambushed and flank charged by 2 units of Wardancers will be crippled.
7) As Kedlav said, it can be used to lock units in combat for infantry attacks later.
8) If it is in danger of being reduced to less than 3 wounds, there are 2 choices:
a) Hide and Shoot b) Tackle small enemy units - very difficult for S4 or S3 to inflict even 1 or 2 wounds.

Vladimir Deathblade
29-01-2007, 15:18
Thanks alot. How many steam points is it wise to go for? Going for the whole hog of 5 is a bit risky.. And even 3 there is a 50% chance of it all going to pot...

Makarion
29-01-2007, 16:34
Exactly. Add to that the risk of a 100 point cannon incapacitating it in turn 1 or 2, and you'll see why many of us consider it a point sink.

Mind, it still occupies the table quarter neatly. While it is easy to take out, it's hard to totally kill.

damiengore
29-01-2007, 17:00
Firing the cannon is a waste of SP's, not to mention that you have a 1in6 chance of causing D3 wounds on the tank everytime you fire it.

Use all of your SP's to drive it at the enemy, preferably on a flank. The consternation it provides will make it's points well worth it.

Vladimir Deathblade
29-01-2007, 21:21
So basicly, it's a psycology weapon. I like that :)

Looks like it's one of those very hard to use, but can be effective...

How do you think it would fair against a none warmachine dwarf army? (rare, I know, but I'm up against one soon...)

Bahd Mufu
30-01-2007, 04:31
keep in mind that the way it charges has changed. It now gets D3 impact hits for every steam point used rather than for every 3" moved. This is a major bonus. Even if you are 1" away use 5 steam points to charge and you will get 6 D3 impact hits. That is going to cane the pants of any unit. Also it pivots freely like a chariot now so you can easily move it around cover without losing too much speed. You can also rapidly re-deploy it to counter the enemies movements. An absolute blessing in a game of difficult wheels, turns and changes of formation. There are a number of options. One is to rush it forward 15" and upset your opponent but make sur you do not chug into a trap of great weapons and high strength missile fire. If you are using a defensive empire strategy (i.e. gunline type, come and get it deployment) then you may want to consider hiding it for a few turns and bringing it into play only once your opponent has dedicated his assault troops to attacking your line. This way you can smash it into their flanks and stuff. Use it in conjunction with stubborn units, unbreakable units and the rod of command to guarentee some flank attacks. Kurt Hellborg makes his knights stubborn, Great Swords are stubborn and a BSB can carry a Stubborn banner (sigismund). This is a particularly useful combo because BSB means re-roll and stubborn means much better chance. This is almost as good as unbreakable except you don't want your BSB to be killed in a challenge. The Rod of Command works by parking right in front of an enemy unit with a model or unit that will not get slaughtered in the first turn of combat. I use an EC with some good armour or a Holy Relic. Bronze Shield and Jade Amulet also could prove useful here. Then he surprises your opponent by not breaking and then wham... counter attack with the Steam Tank, Knights and whatever else you have sitting patiently by. Good Luck.

DaBrode
30-01-2007, 04:47
Thanks a lot,
Deathbalde

Heheheheheheheheehheheheheheheheheheheheheheh, he's Death and he's bald.

Wait...I'm bald.


crap.

uatu13
30-01-2007, 23:03
I just played with the new steam tank rules and I can definitely say it's not worth the 300 points. It looks scary on paper, but once it gets a few wounds it's basically just a lump of metal. In my game I was able to get a shot off with the steam gun and cannon, and perform one charge. After that I got 4 wounds on the tank and from then on EVERY SINGLE TIME I tried to generate more steam points (even just 1!), it would get another wound and do nothing the rest of the turn. Of course, it took forever to die and tied the enemy up several turns, but that's hardly worth 300 points.

Axel
30-01-2007, 23:19
Yep, its actually a very fragile unit with a decorative cannon and lots of cc-punch.

vorac
31-01-2007, 00:07
here is a thread you could look at for info on the steam tank
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62528&highlight=steam+tank

Vladimir Deathblade
31-01-2007, 15:32
Heheheheheheheheehheheheheheheheheheheheheheh, he's Death and he's bald.

Wait...I'm bald.

.

oops... :p In fact, I aint bold, quite the opposit, I have a lot of hair!

anyway, back on topic:

I suppose I should have said I take a combat army (I find gunlines boring for bot players.)

hmm... looks like I missread the steam poiunts rules. I thuoght you roll the number of dice that you want steam points for like the old one. My bad. It's not as hard to get 5 as I thought. That explains some of my problem.

So it looks like the way to go is all ahead full (carefuly!) and give em a good scare, but make sure I have units close by to help out if tings start to get sticky. It isn't as all crushing as it used to be,and needs support.

Thanks again.

MorkaisChosen
01-02-2007, 19:59
DEFINITELY don't let it go anywhere near an Orc Warboss with Shaga's Screamin' Sword.

You know what they're like... Usually 7 S8 attacks (so a -5 save modifier). That Tank would be in serious trouble.

I'd also suggest leaving it at home against Empire, Dwarfs, probably Ogres (although the cannon is quite good against them, with its D3 wounds, but not as good as an ordinary one), and all those other artillery-heavy armies I can't remember right now.