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Wonderdog
31-01-2007, 11:20
Hello,

So... now that Firebase is sadly saying goodbye after 3 well recieved issues, it seems there is a bit of a niche for some new ezine projects...

Watchman has fantasy well and truly covered (and bloody brilliant it is too!) but never the less, us poor specialist gamers are still rather underrepresented...which is a pity, because SG's tend to have some of the most dedicated and inventive fan contributions and support.

Given the recent and well publisiced nerfing of the SG studio down to one overworked man, Fanatic online now going monthly, and SG's lack of support for the likes of Space Hulk, Man'O'War etc - it seems that creative SG fans have little centralised outlet for thier work... which makes me cry on the inside :cries: Who honestly prefers trawling the web to find decent material for thier fave games - especially when its often full of typo's, inconsistent and horribly page set ? Not I!

So, what I suggest, as a possible path of progress, is a fanzine dedicated to all the specialist games. Epic, Necromunda, Mordhiem, Inquisitor, BFG, Man O War, Space Hulk, Warmaster, Talisman, Blood Bowl, Gorkamorka, and all the other OOP but still popular games.

At present, there are ezines dedicated to some of the more popular games (Incoming for Epic is a good one for Epic fans! - and who remembers "Dropship" - it rocked hard!) but nothing that has a bit of general SG material and covers a bit of everything each issue.

I'd propose a layout compatible with easy printing as well as online reading, PDF of course, similair to Firebase / Watchman - but maybe some more emphasis on printable game aids, magic cards, etc etc?

I'm sure we have plenty of willing content contributers, and I would imagine a "threshold" publication system would work well - basically, there is a running total of printworthy articles, which are edited and page set as they arrive. Once we have sufficient material for an issue, it is compiled, a foreword / cover and index are attached, and it is put out for download. This means that the release schedule is dictated by the volume of submitted material recieved. I would think half a dozen articles would be sufficient for a proof of concept issue, to gauge response and get some interest generated...

I'm happy to do the 'orrible editing/pagesetting tasks, all I'd need to get started are a range of submissions, preferably in a format similair to classic WD articles, i.e. with:-

A quick foreword about the author and why they wrote the article.
The main article text
Some suitable pictures
Any relevent diagrams (dont need expertly drawn diagrams, just rough sketches or descriptions, these can be worked up later).
Some conclusions and an afterword.

#Wonderdog

IncrediSteve
31-01-2007, 15:45
You can count me in for frequent BFG support.

I have somewhat of a knack for making quality ships purely from bitz, maybe I could always contribute something similar to "Doc Butcha's Convershun Klinic", only for ships and such.

I was in the barrel to write an article or two for FIREBASE issue 3, but life reared it's ugly head and I wasn't able to complete anything by the deadline, and now that issue three is the end, I feel a little guilty, like I silently owe the Warseer community some articles [not that I wouldn't enjoy doing them anyway].

I'm also keen on AI and maybe down the road Necromunda and/or Epic as well, and if Space Hullk and similar games using 40k models could be done I'd be all for that as well.

Hena
31-01-2007, 16:11
Frankly, I don't want a ezine for SG. The Firebase had the right idea. Concentrate on 40k world. And feature SG in addition to 40k. There is little point of small group of people doing an ezine for themselves (or actually there is, but that's not why I want it). Why it is better for being part of 40k is that it helps to draw new crowd into the SG games.

So if Firebase dies (which would be rather silly) and new 40k ezine is born from the ashes, I'd rather have 40k related SG games included within it. And if I'd play warmaster (or other fantasy battle time games) I'd try to push them into Watchman.

IncrediSteve
01-02-2007, 00:54
Not like it's a bitter rivalry and a SG fanzine would keep all it's articles tucked away to itself. Fan based is fan based and articles are articles, no reason not to brew up some ideas then contribute the resources to the NEO FIREBASE whenever it decides to roll around.

fjk177
01-02-2007, 01:03
wait there was a third issue of firebase?:eyebrows:

TKitch
01-02-2007, 01:17
There hasn't been a Firebase Issue 3. Yet.

There will be.

As for SG support in Watchman, Please pass me anything you have and I'll happily submit it!

Hena
01-02-2007, 03:20
Not like it's a bitter rivalry and a SG fanzine would keep all it's articles tucked away to itself. Fan based is fan based and articles are articles, no reason not to brew up some ideas then contribute the resources to the NEO FIREBASE whenever it decides to roll around.
Sure, but is there enough things for two ezines to keep on going? Also SG games in general I think (at least epic in particular) needs new people and that is much better served with a ezine that regular 40k players read. Also making two ezine for one set or articles can cause extra work on editing and playout *shrug*.

However if people want to make an SG ezine, go right ahead. If I can submit set of articles for "Firebase, the next generation" I probably can submit the same for SG ezine as well :).

Voltaire
01-02-2007, 09:09
Greetings to one and all,

Since you have already started this topic commenting is required on behalf of the Watchman and all its staff (Tkitch beat me to it). If everyone wants to get a SG magazine going, then thats all good and well but would you rather see it coming under the beady eye of an all encompassing magazine? I know I certainly would!

That is why, gentleman and ladies, I propose that the SG people join with the Watchman into helping build a magazine more tailored towards SG and towards providing support for everything. This inturn, would mean you don't need to pool resources as much as the Watchman already has a lot in place in terms of getting the E-zine started. It also means that if your content may not be a lot, then you will still get a good lookin with a regular crowd.

So you know, I used to play GorkaMorka and am an avid Inquisitor fan/player so the systems in the SG forum would definitely be supported (despite the first Watchman lacking SG - there is a reason for that), in their fullest.

What say you - join with the Watchman?

TKitch
01-02-2007, 12:15
As Voltaire said, With it going into a 40K magazine, MORE people will read about the games than if it was merely a SG mag.

SG people are likely to reak something with 40K in it, moreso than a 40K player is to read something about SG.

It's the best advertisement. Show the players out there that there are BETTER games than the core 3.

Vic
01-02-2007, 14:49
Voltaire speaks truth! You'll get further with a good foundation, and pooling resources rather than diluting them will make for a better impact.

Sylass
02-02-2007, 08:29
[...]but maybe some more emphasis on printable game aids, magic cards, etc etc? While that's a good idea you need to be really careful not to break any copyrights with this...otherwise you'll get into trouble really fast.

Harry
02-02-2007, 17:07
Given the recent and well publisiced nerfing of the SG studio down to one overworked man, Fanatic online now going monthly, and SG's lack of support for the likes of Space Hulk, Man'O'War etc

Wonderdog the recent 'nerfing' you describe seems to be part of a move to bring specialist games to a dignified end. This however does not spell the end for specialist games.
One by one, I believe, we will see all (Most?) of the specialist Games brought back 'in house' so they can have the wieght of the studio put behind them with their re-releases. This is a good thing for the specialist Games they had been sidelined and forgotton by many gamers and often new gamers have never even heard of some of them.
Where possible they will be tied to the Core games. (Mighty Empires, Mordheim, Man'o' War to fantasy, Space Hulk, Necromunda to 40K, Etc.)
Some games that do not fit very well with the Core games will still get re-released as stand alone games...E.G. Talisman by Black Library.
It seems Games Workshop is remembering what they did best and being a producer of games.

My point (if I had one when I started writing this) is that Specialist games will be brought back and tied to the core games. Specialist Games will be part of fantasy (and 40K). Specialist games will be a big part of what we want to talk about and support in The Watchman. (and I am sure the same will be true of Firebase/Overwatch and Specialist Games) A fact proven by several of the key names involved in The Watchman having already read and contributed to this thread. I join Voltaire in inviting you and all Specialst Games fans to throw your lot in with us. We are Specialist Games fans too. (I play most of them!) We have never seen the Watchman as a place just for Warhammer Fantasy Battle but as a place for all aspects of Fantasy gaming. I hope my rumours article was proof of this , if proof were needed.

Please feel free to contact any of us to discuss your ideas for how we can move The Watchman forward with all the specialist games onboard. All contributions and offers to get involved will be warmly recieved.

All the best
Harry

Wonderdog
02-02-2007, 17:41
One by one, I believe, we will see all (Most?) of the specialist Games brought back 'in house' so they can have the wieght of the studio put behind them with their re-releases. This is a good thing for the specialist Games they had been sidelined and forgotton by many gamers and often new gamers have never even heard of some of them.
Where possible they will be tied to the Core games. (Mighty Empires, Mordheim, Man'o' War to fantasy, Space Hulk, Necromunda to 40K, Etc.)
Some games that do not fit very well with the Core games will still get re-released as stand alone games...E.G. Talisman by Black Library.
It seems Games Workshop is remembering what they did best and being a producer of games.

Harry

And for this, the masses rejoice!

#Wonderdog

orangesm
03-02-2007, 01:49
Hena is right in that it is better to get articles in a 40k mag for 40k universe SG games because it gets them exposure.
I first saw the notice of FB's stop here.

Even for me (in a military training program), contributing the occasional article is not horribly difficult. We all write lengthy sometimes comparable to articles in WD as post. Given a topic we all have our own ideas and like to share them, it is the format that we are after.

Chilltouch
03-02-2007, 03:40
I'd just like to state Dark Magneta is starting up, an Inquisitor fanzine by members of the Conclave. Right now they're awaiting articles of suitable quality to put into the first issue, and see how it goes.

ashc
03-02-2007, 10:29
I think its far better for SG to split the fantasy/40k SGs into the respective fantasy/40k magazines; it just makes more sense.

Or of course it would be fine if the whole lot; 40k, fantasy, and SGs were all in one finely put together publication.....

just a thought.

Ash

ArtificerArmour
03-02-2007, 12:38
As editor of the SG content of FB, I believe we got the, uhm, ****** end of the stick.

A full, specialist game magazine would be nice but we need frequent support. It's ok someone saying they'll do something, but frustrating when they don't do it.

I think a good idea would be to take the articles submitted to firebase and re-submit them into another magazine, as a bit of filler (since it seems very few people read them anyway :p).

Harry
03-02-2007, 13:34
Maybe you should give the new editor of firebase (I mean 'Overwatch') a try.
You may get a different reception.;)

ashc
03-02-2007, 13:35
Thats a general problem with fanzines though; lack of contributions can be a killer. Its why over half of the content in firebase and the watchman was by Darkseer and Voltaire respectively.

Ash

Hena
03-02-2007, 13:42
I did send them E:A battle report (and as far as I'm aware ot SG stuff went there as well that got pushed out), which never did appear.

ArtificerArmour
03-02-2007, 13:43
Thats a general problem with fanzines though; lack of contributions can be a killer. Its why over half of the content in firebase and the watchman was by Darkseer and Voltaire respectively.

Ash

Well here's my issue. The SG stuff was all ready for issue 2. But it wasn't included. And I found out not through discussion, but through his sporadic update emails. Why?

Well, firstly darkseer rammed us full with deathwing. Extremely over the top. Then we had a huge necromunda segment that he did independantly of the SG team.

Basically, SG has come bottom of the priorities throughout. Hence why the ork tactica article for issue 1 has no pictures, even though they were submitted. Poor planning meant that instead of spreading deathwing over two issues, we got it all in one with no SG articles.

ashc
03-02-2007, 13:54
Ok now that's pretty shocking; why make all the work for yourself when it was all there ready to be used? :confused:

Ash

ArtificerArmour
03-02-2007, 14:03
Because it all went a little bit pete haines when the idea that the dark angels were having new releases before christmas, thus why he went all out in trying to have as much deathwing in as possible (and, to be honest, a pretty pointless and mediocre ravenwing tactica).

ashc
03-02-2007, 14:06
Because it all went a little bit pete haines when the idea that the dark angels were having new releases before christmas, thus why he went all out in trying to have as much deathwing in as possible (and, to be honest, a pretty pointless and mediocre ravenwing tactica).

hahaha at the Pete Haines comment.

Yes I see what happened; I also agree on your thoughts on the ravenwing tactica, in fact I would go to say that the whole Dark Angels theme was pretty pointless considering the radical reworking of said army.

saying that, I never agreed with the 'themed' issues either.

Ash

ArtificerArmour
03-02-2007, 14:09
You see, it works when you're writing with the new codex being spread around your office. These articles were written months in advance of the actual release, which we're still waiting for. The ravenwing article wasn't bad, but it was going to be superceded and the pictures were of broken models.

ashc
03-02-2007, 14:10
shame really, I will move this to pm's now considering its wellllll off-topic.

Ash

orangesm
03-02-2007, 15:36
Which shows another reason why Firebase goes away when Darkseer can no longer contribute, he was writing half of it. I know that I sent AA quiet a few articles and got in the first FB1 with the BFG articles, my follow up did not show in FB2, due to miscommunication regarding deadline. For FB3, I got an Epic Intro article written by the 'deadline', once again AA having to talk to Darkseer about when the actual deadline was. I even have had a short AeroImp campaign that had I gotten the rulebook last week rather than this week I would have tried to get into FB3.

So Darkseer was trying to do to much work on each magazine.

For any follow on magazine (Overwatch), the lead team needs to create a few things that might ease their pain.

1) Submission Guidelines - min & max length of a submission, number of submissions per issue per submitter, outlines of follow-ons if any, templates, min & max number of pictures, etc
ex. BFG articles about building a fleet, first article is an intro with each person writing 2-3 paragraphs about where they are headed. If you have 6 fleets, you have 6 short articles likely 2 pages each with pictures included, spread that over 3 follow on issues.

2) Hold the lead team including the editor to the same standard as other submitters and include Editorials in that number of submissions per issue per submitter.

3) If you are announcing a release day also announce a deadline day along with it and who submissions can be sent to - AA for SG stuff.

4) Build a lead team, not a lead person, Darkseer did an outstanding job, but we lose the e-zine when you lose that person. A lead team spreads the editorial work out.
For a 40k Magazine in its infancy a single editor for SG is fine, but having just 1 other editor for the whole of 40k is not a good idea. I would actually suggest that 2 people look at each article. An editor for Batreps, an editor for Modeling, an editor for Painting, an editor Terrain, an editor for Tactica, and an editor for Gaming (things like Campaigns & Scenarios) [these are just suggestions and in not what is necessarily need]. Each of these people would also be a sub-editor for one of the others, to cross check and know what they do.
The lead Editor would oversee the format of the zine, the general feel/content for that issue, but trust his editors to prepare articles properly and be able to gage whether or not the articles is for this issue. If an article does not look like it is going to get in a particular month let the author know, people take pride in their work.

5) Be ahead of itself. This goes with the deadline issue. If a deadline for the next issue is the release of the current issue that gives the editorial staff that much time to figure it out. WD's are mostly written 3 months out. If it is a quarterly magazine, it may be best to say articles should be submitted 4 months out. This lets the editors at least select a few to tease on the back cover. But I also think that starting small with the next 40k zine would be a good idea, FB1 was 106 pages and had the backpage preview, FB2 was 85 pages and said it would be Chaos vs Inquistion. Great so now if the deadline is 2 months away from release all the contributors have to make articles geared towards Chaos vs Inquistion and when did this become public?

6) Submitters, beyond just having their articles in the magazine, should get to know a little for knowledge of what is to come. On upcoming issues deadline day, previous submitters are told what the theme, what the focus, what articles are wanted for the next issue. Given a month until the release of the 'current' issue, some of the submitters may have the following magazines articles in by that time.

7) Submission Guidelines, Deadlines, and Lead Team (not lead person)

But this is just me looking in as a submitter.

ashc
03-02-2007, 15:48
There is another great saying i will hold some of your ideas to orangesm 'Too many cooks spoil the broth'. The Watchman began with a Council of editors but was quickly reduced to myself and Voltaire; for one reason or another it is very difficult to maintain people attached to your magazine, as they often have alot of real life stuff going on, and when people start dropping like flies you return to that same situation again.

I agree that one person is definitely not the way to go; but you do have to have a realistic number of people working on it.

Ash

orangesm
03-02-2007, 15:58
Your right - too many Chiefs not enough Indians... but the extra 'editors' are proofreaders, format checkers, make sure that the articles fit the guidelines, etc. The goal to take pressure off the Chief Editor. It may be that if you submit an article you have to proofread another article. I think a huge help would be a template of some kind.

Another question for any future e-zine is format, whether a pdf is best or a website may be better.

Just had another thought - give the e-zine its own g-mail/hotmail acct to get submissions.

Hena
03-02-2007, 17:08
I definitely think that pdf is a proper format. It can easily be copied to move with oneself when not connected to the web. Also it can be printed, which is very nice from time to time.

Voltaire
04-02-2007, 09:37
Orangesm, you intrigue me with your ideas and your quite logical suggestions. To say you are hitting the nail on the head is the understatement of the century. Check your PMs.

Smokedog
05-02-2007, 10:05
Considering we now have a new magazine called "Overwatch". Can A thread be made about it (by wonderdog maybe) and then we can kill off the other (redundant) threads.

You could outline the editor(s) and plan of action, if it is monthly or bi-monthly, and then throw open to some suggestion as to what to include.

Mine would be, make it shorter, leaner, more frequent, focussing on two armies (that can then be the battle report) and have a "Specialist section" each issue where you focus on 1or 2 specialist games (depending if is is monthly or bimonthly)

Anyway... new topic headed "Overwatch" anyone?

Wonderdog
05-02-2007, 12:43
Done and dusted - check out the 40k General forums![dice0]

Persephone
05-02-2007, 13:56
Wow, Firebase is done already? I really liked it.

TKitch
06-02-2007, 03:07
merely under a new name and management.

Darkseer has other commitments and has to step down, but did an AMAZING job. Many Kudos to him for pulling a stunt most people would have completely caved in attempting.

Wonderdog
06-02-2007, 12:18
Several of the contributors for Firebase have offered to submit work to Overwatch - but it is a completely seperate ezine, different editor, layout, and style - the only common components being that they both deal with the 40k universe, and that there they are both made up of article contributions from the community!

teh_soldier
06-02-2007, 17:44
Can i suggest an article?
Have, for each syatem, a "beginner's guide". Not the kind of crap White Dwarf does for "beginners" but something with substance. Say for instance Necromunda, do an article on the effect of starting gang sizes, which weapons are effective, that kind of thing. For Mordheim, maybe a guide to what kind of composition is good for a starting warband (i.e. as many heroes as possible).
Just an idea, although i wouldn't be able to do it as i don't know enough about each system.

orangesm
07-02-2007, 00:24
Funny you should mention that, I am trying to do a series on getting into Epic...

IncrediSteve
07-02-2007, 02:52
Getting into BFG is trickier now that there are no awesome starter boxes, a horrid 1.5 rulebook you are unsure whether or not to get, and a hundred or so .pdfs to download.

Perhaps some links to core files would help, along with several suggested starter fleets within a certain budget?

Darn, thinking about it makes me miss the starter boxes even more.

orangesm
07-02-2007, 03:33
I agree IncrediSteve - article on what you need to learn (counters available), what to play to learn the rules throughly (series of battles with basic list), and then building your first true fleet. Once I finish all that for Epic (3 articles, Epic: Basic Training, Epic: Advanced Training, and Epic: Beyond Training) maybe I will sit down and try and do something similar for BFG ( Battlefleet: Basic Training, Battlefleet: ... you get the idea). The biggest thing is that the last article for both (Beyond Training) I will need help since I do not have images for or am familiar with all the Armies/Fleets.

TKitch
07-02-2007, 03:56
*wipes forehead*

glad I bought my BFG boxes when they were still there!

IncrediSteve
07-02-2007, 15:29
Yeah, I bought two, wish I'd bought 3.

@Orangesm: I could help to some extent, while I currently only have Chaos, Navy, and Tyranids, I've heavily brooded over the rest of the races and spend lots of time browsing .pdfs and putting wishlists together. I'll proxy some stuff and pit test games against myself to see what works for new fleets. $100 seems reasonable for getting a starter fleet together, and is the typical core game budget as well for a battleforce or equivilant.

Things are too hectic to do it right now, but they'll settle down soon enough and I can rip into it.

horizon
28-02-2007, 11:43
BFG has a dedicated fan magazine: Warp Rift, re-launch end of march!

submissions (all kind): horizon@epic40k.co.uk

Emperor's Grace
28-02-2007, 16:36
For any follow on magazine (Overwatch), the lead team needs to create a few things that might ease their pain.

I'd also suggest a defined page count. Even if it's more like a guideline.

I'd rather have more smaller issues than a monster every 6 months.

Smokedog
28-02-2007, 22:41
Seconded, and for the record, I think that is wonderdog is going to do...

orangesm
01-03-2007, 00:33
BFG has a dedicated fan magazine: Warp Rift, re-launch end of march!

submissions (all kind): horizon@epic40k.co.uk

Yes I know and occasionally read it, but the goal of having SG Army/Fleet/Gang Construction articles, SG Batreps, etc in a magazine that 40k players read and possibly gain their interest in the game and do GW's job for them! Thus the idea of the 3 part series.

horizon
01-03-2007, 03:39
Yeah,
But do consider what you are getting into if you do all at once:

Epic:A
Warmaster
Battlefleet Gothic
Battle of Five Armies
Mordheim
Necromunda
Blood Bowl

That is a lot to cover at once. I am not saying you shouldn't do it because every possible SG support is needed!

Another sidenote, and WD itself suffers from this because of LotR, people skip a lot of parts/games because they have no interest in them. But it was just as hard work to make them.

cheers

spacedwarv
04-04-2007, 00:50
I would galdly contribute to it in terms of rants, BFG, AI or if WFRP was invluded that. I would contribute my freetime, Gears of War can be ignored *sobs*. Just PM me if you would like my help.

Sgt Whiskey Swiper
07-04-2007, 20:38
I'm working on an ezine atm - 'Renegade' with the 40kO crew and would be very happy to have some of this stuff in it, pm me if interested...

On topic, I'd love to see some new Space Hulk rules and equipment issued etc, as a lot of us have that game floating around and the templates are now on GWs site.