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View Full Version : All Orc Army, Viable?



Mazdug
31-01-2007, 20:02
I am just curious if anyone runs an all orc army, and if so, how well it does. I am in the process of assembling one myself, which is going to be along the lines of
2500pts
Black Orc Lord on Boar, Tooled Up for a lot of attacks on the charge
Black Orc Standard Bearer, Hitty
Black Orc Hero, Hitty
Shaman on Boar
All units with full command
30 Biguns w Xtra Choppa
30 Orcs w Xtra Choppa
30 Orcs w Choppa+Shield
25 Black Orcs
10 Boar Boys
10 Boar Boys
1 Boar Chariot

Has anyone else tried a list along these lines? I worry that the list might not be viable with no missile troops, and with the lack of Orc fast cav, I may get out manuevered fairly easily, which could be problematic. I'm open to any input/suggestions.

I also frequently joke that I am going to field a list of 8 units of 30 orcs with xtra choppas and command, but thats a project for another day.

greenskin
31-01-2007, 20:06
Lack of disposable units. That's your biggest problem. No diverters, no charge baiters.

EDIT: Why handicap yourself so? O&G is barely competitive as it is.

Mazdug
31-01-2007, 20:21
Well, this is a 3 point answer
A. Am in the middle of making a 40k Goff Orc army and figure I can mix and match a lot of my bits this way
B. My Gaming group already has a dedicated goblin player, and I don't want to step on his toes.
C. What I really want to be playing is a Grimgores 'Ard Boyz list, but I am under the impression thats no longer a valid army list.

I would think that even without throwaway troops, the army is hard enough that against most enemies I would be able to take a solid charge and atleast hold on long enough for a counter charge. I was thinking of maybe replacing one of the units of boar boys with an additional unit of blackorcs which I figure might be able to provide me another reliable infantry unit, although I must say that I find the fact that black orcs don't prevent animosity in nearby units seems like a bit of a blow.

Why don't you think the Greenskins are competitive? We play mostly 2500 pt games, and my friends all goblin list seems to do fairly well, not like his dwarves, but it breaks even wins to losses.

superduperkoopatrooper
31-01-2007, 20:40
I would think that even without throwaway troops, the army is hard enough that against most enemies I would be able to take a solid charge and atleast hold on long enough for a counter charge. I was thinking of maybe replacing one of the units of boar boys with an additional unit of blackorcs which I figure might be able to provide me another reliable infantry unit, although I must say that I find the fact that black orcs don't prevent animosity in nearby units seems like a bit of a blow.

Why don't you think the Greenskins are competitive? We play mostly 2500 pt games, and my friends all goblin list seems to do fairly well, not like his dwarves, but it breaks even wins to losses.


'Solid charge' is a bit open to interpretation but i think against armies like chaos with better combat units and characters you'll get destroyed trying to go toe to toe. Without goblins you're also running the risk of widespread panic when things go wrong. I like themed armies that do things a bit differently but there's not much point posting them here asking for tactical advice as most replies will be along the lines of 'lose the theme'.

Bull
31-01-2007, 21:35
I think that any army is viable as long as you work out how to make it work. The problem you are going to have to come to grips with is that the Orks are not the best fighters, or the strongest, they aren't fast and the only special thing about them actually is a weakness (the squabble check).

So you have to look at what strengths you can use to back yourself up, use a Giant, maybe a unit of trolls. Have your lord on foot with the black ork unit keeping you're army's core steady and have a different character on the boar, or none at all. Think about maybe having a broken formation with your boar units in between your foot units, they can support them with flank charges and if your unit runs off with squabble then you can keep up.

Hmmmm, if I think of anything else I'll let you know, but yeah I think go for it, and in the end think about what area's are letting you down after each battle and change something about the army, or your deployment to cover this.

greenskin
31-01-2007, 22:00
Why don't you think the Greenskins are competitive? We play mostly 2500 pt games, and my friends all goblin list seems to do fairly well, not like his dwarves, but it breaks even wins to losses.
I've learned not to open that particular can of worms. ;) Keep in mind I mean strictly at the top-level of play, not necessarily when gaming among compadres.

All it would take is a couple chariots smashing into your main infantry block and your game goes out the window. You also have the problem of animosity which will make it difficult to maintain a battle line. This invites all sorts of unsavory flank charges.

Mazdug
31-01-2007, 22:44
You have a point, although I am not worried about tourny level competition with this army, since I would probably revert to my Slaaneshi roots if I where feeling that competitive. I'm mostly looking for ideas to try with an all orc army to have some interesting games that don't just start with my whole force running off the board. I think maybe a staggered formation with cav/chariots held back might work well, rather then putting most of my cav on a flank. I think that way if hit by, say, a unit of chaos knights, even if the infantry breaks and is overrun, my held back cav could then hit the knight unit, possibly in the flank, allowing me to benefit from the charge. What role would a giant play in this army, aside from cannonball magnet?

greenskin
31-01-2007, 23:20
I think maybe a staggered formation with cav/chariots held back might work well, rather then putting most of my cav on a flank. I think that way if hit by, say, a unit of chaos knights, even if the infantry breaks and is overrun, my held back cav could then hit the knight unit, possibly in the flank, allowing me to benefit from the charge.
*Smack!* You're talking about holding back your only units that give you a chance in the charging game. You're also talking about using a 200 point unit to draw in your opponent. I don't think your opponent is going to be to upset about that. It also means leaving your units close to your board edge; not ideal for keeping them on the board if they panic. Seriously, I don't think running a few minimal units of fast cavalry will upset your Goblin playing friend and they will help your game immensly.

Mazdug
31-01-2007, 23:47
Would you reccomend spider riders or wolf riders for the fast cavalry? My natural inclination is towards wolf riders, since they have a greater move, and they will match my boar boys, who I plan giving the furry hat head from the 40k ork boyz sprue, however both units flee the same distance, and are roughly the same points, assuming you give the wolf riders bows or spears.

greenskin
01-02-2007, 00:20
Wolf Riders are super. So are Spider Riders. Overall, a mix is probably ideal as you're able to handle different situations. I'd go with your inclination. You will probably be more inclined to try to get the most out of a unit you like.

Goq Gar
01-02-2007, 03:57
I play a friend who, occasionally, spicens up a tournament by dropping all of his goblins. He has amassed a rather frightening black orc horde, about 60 black orcs in total. He has an army of Big uns, (varying in equipment), about 120 of them. He always takes three black orc heroes, and with this army, only I with my Host of Sotek, or my friend, with his High elf "Shoot them til theyre dead, shoot their lifeless corpses, then shoot their families and their friends" army, many large units of archers and the maximum of RBTs, have ever bested this army simply because it is so beastly once it (eventually) gets to combat.

My sotek host only beat him with a miraculous charge by my saurus cavalry in which I delivered a frightening 17 wounds! And of course, my skinks, who were shooting on form for once...

All Orc armies, like the one you suggestd above, are beastly. Just watch for shooting. Of any kind.

Tutore
01-02-2007, 07:28
It obviously lacks fast cavalry, which ould be a real problem. Perhaps you fielded too much heavy cavalry.

jahorin
01-02-2007, 13:03
if you want to stick with an orc army, i would suggest to add a couple of rock lobber to get rid of the enemy's warmachines.

and why not add a unit (or 2) of orc arrer boyz? they can provide a bit of support for flank against fast cavalry.

stormfalcon
01-02-2007, 17:14
I'm thinking of trying a very orc heavy army like yours but agree with the other posters that you just have to have some gobbos in there to make it work. I'd love to use boar boyz as well but everything I've read from more experience players indicates they are just not worth the points (savage orc boar boyz are a different story).

Depending on your point totals, I'd suggest dropping the boar boyz and get 3-4 units of wolf or spider riders, an additional chariot (those are great, especially in combined charges) and some spear chukkas (invaluable for thinning out low armor save units).

Mazdug
01-02-2007, 19:50
Are spear Chuckas really worth it, I would think with the not particularly high BS of the crew, that they would be missing fairly regularly. I think what I'll do is drop the 2nd unit of boarboys, add 2 units of 10 arrer boys (I think I have32 of the blasted things just sitting around unpainted), and either another chariot, 2 spear chuckas, or a rock lobber. With the left over points I may even be able to get myself a doomdiver or perhaps a couple of trolls (I don't have the book with me today to check).....or of course, I could buy more footslogging orcs, which is my natural inclination.

On a side note, would this list be more viable if lead by Gorbad Ironclaw with slightly smaller units that where all upgraded to Big'uns?

stormfalcon
01-02-2007, 20:30
I think they're great. One of my main opponents is a mortal chaos undivided player and anything that can kill those bloody choosen warriors and knights relatively easily is OK in my book. I've got to weaken them or close combat is a real trick to pull off (even if I do get the charge). Granted, they don't have the best accuracy, but you can buy two for only one special slot and generally you will hit with at least one per turn. I usually turn my goblin shamans and chukkas on my opponents toughest units to wear them down prior to close combat.

The only downside I'm aware of WRT arrer boyz (aside from their low BS) is that "1" or a "6" for an animosity test pretty much makes them useless for a turn (not a problem with war machines).

Mazdug
01-02-2007, 22:58
I guess maybe I'll have to give the boltthrowers some thought, I suppose, to go with my all orc theme, I could convert really wounded orcs to be the crew. An orc on a crutch with one eye might be as weedy as a goblin. Thanks for all the input, I'm going to play around with the list and then get it started. I will post my next army makeup where it belongs, in the army lists thread.

Bull
01-02-2007, 23:10
To answer your question about the Giant, I find them invaluable. Sure, you're right, they do attract the shooting of the enemy but that means that the boys aren't and in the end it's your block troops that will win you the battle. Movement 6 and toughness 5 mean that they will shoot him with all they have to bring him down, and if they fail to do so they have a stubborn leadership 10 monster in combat that on a roll of a 1 on the random chart automatically wins combat by 1, causes terror and if used on a flank can roll up a line with ease in support of your main force.

Give it a try if you like the idea but obviously everything in your army is up to you. Giants flanking are one of the scariest things in an O&G army imho.

greenskin
02-02-2007, 00:05
Giants flanking are one of the scariest things in an O&G army imho.
I like sending them into big blocks of infantry all alone. They have a good chance to break an entire unit, will stay put, and you don't run the risk of them falling on a support unit. Also, if they yell and bawl, you won't have wasted the efforts of a unit that could be in action elsewhere.

Crazy Harborc
02-02-2007, 00:43
Unless you already have the fast cav. minies......Plop in a giant and a couple of 10 Arrer boys units. I guess a spear chukka (or two) will do some damage to T4 units. It does help IF you can roll those high rolls to over come the greenie's BS3

jahorin
02-02-2007, 00:59
the chukka are not too bad. i mean their point it'S ok. and they will hit most of the time on 4+. they are fun against ogres!!!!
or even funnier chaos warrior.

giant is a big fire magnet but also a great flanker and don't forget it cause terror! which is also nice againt low Ld enemy.

[dice0]

edit : doh! missed twice with the chukka :)

Bull
02-02-2007, 01:24
oops, and don't forget the giant is also st6 with d6 attacks when in rolls that on the attack list which is -3 armour save against all those tougher things, and 2d6 of them against things like ogres.

The giant will always make its points back one way or another, and greenskin is right, you can throw them at an enemy infantry block from the front if you want and they have more chance of running away or being destroyed than you do.

Mazdug
02-02-2007, 17:38
The giant will always make its points back one way or the other.

I have found that patently untrue in our gaming group. More often then not, giants seem to find themselves not alive well before reaching the enemy battleline. Although, some might say that the amount of shooting they draw is earning their points back by saving other units. Also, we have a LOT of shooting heavy armies in our group (the most regularly played armies are dwarves, empire, wood elves, and brettonians).