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feintstar
18-07-2005, 05:15
I think that's the name. I was toying with a few ideas to figure out just how this could actually be used; by and large, its a way of getting an extra pwoer and dispell dice onto a Model that will never use either just so someone else can use it.

But then I had another idea.

What if you gave it to a dragon Lord, and made him your scroll caddy?!

80 points of wargear, zero offensive magic capacity, but suddenly you're faceing 3 tooled up combat heroes and no soft underbelly mage defense.

Admittedly, the Dragon is suddenly oh so much more vulnerable, but I wonder if the extra Hero left open wouldn't make up for that.

So i'm imagining a heroes choice section that looks like:

Lord on Dragon with Loremaster and 2 dispell scrolls, Dragonscale sheild
560ish
Commander on Great Eagle with the 30 point mini flamethrower and enchanted sheild
180ish
Commander on Great Eagle with Enchanted sheild, and Reaver Bow
180ish
920 total...
3 mage killer combat nuts with unparrallelled manuverability may be able to take down the enemy magic users and war engines such that the Dragon Lord doesn't need the extra defence that he might otherwise never leave home without.

only for 2500 plus obviouly, otherwise the hero loadout might have to be scaled back a LOT.
At the very least, assuming you cut out the Great Eagles and turned the Commanders into normal commanders, you've got yourself a "true combat" hero choice list; numbers and power projection. Just pray that the Dragon Lord never goes up against the Carnosaur...

Netherbeing
18-07-2005, 08:39
A wizard cannot have armour ( shield )

Kyuss
18-07-2005, 15:34
Ummm.... Radiant Gem of Hoeth?

Switch to heavens and get 2nd sign?

It can be nasty, but you may be better off with a bound spell.

I think Loremaster allows you to choose spells. Its all a bit hazy.



Kyuss

NarCiS
18-07-2005, 19:25
You basically spent 300+ points just to justify the use of an obsolete (since we have Radiant Gem of Hoeth) item...

feintstar
19-07-2005, 04:40
He's not even meant to be able to cast spells. He's a scroll caddy. While he cannot cast even second sign, he still provides a dispell dice, and can still read dispell scrolls.

You would use Loremaster instead of the radient Gem so that you can take the dragonscale sheild, thus bumping your armour to something (barely) respectable.

As fot justifying it, it is actually an answer to the problem that if you take a dragon, you can't take more than 1 combat hero in 2500 points, thus leaving your army vulnerable and comparatively without leadership while your dragon wanders around the enemy half of the table picking fights. It also saves you 135 points of scroll caddy.

Darius Rhiannon
19-07-2005, 14:02
Actually there is a better use for both the Loremaster and the Radiant Gem.

It goes like this.
Loremaster or Gem
Seer
Lore of Beasts or Fire
If Fire then Flaming Sword, if Beasts then Bears Anger.

These spells add to your princes fighting capacity. For example with the flaming sword he always hits on +2 and has 5 S7 Flaming Attaks. Perfect for dealing with treeman lords. Or even with an annoyance of nestlings. Because you would have to roll a dice to see which special effect gets precedent.

Commissar Vaughn
19-07-2005, 14:58
you can have loremaster and armour, wizards cant have armour (becouse its not an option) princes can, but if they take it and loremaster they cant cast spells (not even sure if they get dispel dice etc) . if this wasnt the case half the loremaster description would be redundant. I've often contemplated taking a jedi, a prince/commander with loremaster/gem of hoeth and a magic weapon. at worst he becomes etheareal, which makes him tricky to hit, but he might be able to wipe out a unit in magic phase and then charge the survivors and duff em up in h2h! ah the possibilities...

Lord Anathir
19-07-2005, 18:44
ahhh...Loremasters...a wonderful item.

To stat things off....Loremasters were designed for one purpose...and one purpose along... Prince Scroll Caddies. Now, u must be asking..."wtf, why am i going to have a prince scrol caddie, when i can just get a normal scroll caddie". There are a number of reasons:
1. I@C. Larger chance that you can have ld 10 general.
2. Ability to take big monsters (ill talk more about this later)
3. When playing against no magic armies....Khorne, Dwarves.... u dont have a 135 pt scroll caddie doing nothing and worrying about not getting killed. a Pricne scroll caddie on horse at least adds a great punch to a combat unit.

Now...its has been long established that the more units you hae on the table...the better. Well, I once designed a list based on this...i came up with this:
Prince, LM, Scroll x2, Dragonscale Shield (best set up for a Prince scroll caddie), steed, lance, heavy armour,
BSB, Battle Banner, steedm heavy armour
5 SH wChamp
5 SH wchamp
19 Spears wSB
14 Spears wSB
10 Archers wlight armour
5 Reavers
5 Shadow warriors
5 DP +champ
2 chariots
2 RBT
2 eagles
(general tactic was a massive flank attack that had the mounted units on one flank, the chariots in the centre and the infantry on the other flank...but thats another story...i can write a essay on usint that army).
go back to the three reasons i gave at the top about using a prince scroll caddie.
1. Leadership....i have a 83% chance of ld 10 general...not bad
2. Monster....havent got to that yet.
3. How would my flank attack look if i had mage scroll caddie instead of a prince...not very good.

About taking a prince scroll caddie on a dragon....lmao...that would be fun...but soooooo risky. Dragons are a big enough target as it is, and i dont mount anything less then a 4+ ward save on a dragon. If you want to be a real daredevil, take loremaster, 1 scroll and the armour of protection. And then you can have fun trying to kill the enemy mages asap. Remember, ward saves arent 100% sure. Ive seen 15 peasent bowmen inflict two wounds on my prince with a 4+ reroll able armour and 4+ ward.
About the general topic of using 3DD and 2 scrolls (prince scroll caddie)...this in itself is risky. Magic users that are hard to kill will give you problem, and will potentially ruin ur army. (that actually, is why i stopped using the above list). Always have the dragon princes carrie the standard of balance incase you come across stubborn slanns. Unfortuantley, it doesnt help you against tzeentch...you will need to hit the flank of the unit with the lvl 4 with ur hard (battle banner unit + prince unit) and FAST!

In the RGoH vs LM debate. Its really simple. Im a magic heavy army...use RGoH and chooe fire lore...for a scroll caddie prince, use loremaster.

@darius rhiannon.... that would work wonders...but very risky...maybe something to try in the last turn or so when ur sure ur opponent doesnt have any scrolls left.

NarCiS
19-07-2005, 20:47
@ Lord Anathir I think I have finally met my match as far as High Elf Tactics Knowledge goes :). One thing though, you think you will survive games with just 3 dispel dice and 2 scrolls? I don't know about your group but over here 5 dispel dice and 2 scrolls is considered the bare minimum. Also, Archers with light Armour? <--- WTF?

Lord Anathir
20-07-2005, 01:10
lmao...heres the trick...

When ur playing with 3DD and 2 scrolls, ur basically playing magehunthammer. Eagles, reavers and shadow warriors are all a must with that little dd.
With a flank attack type of army though...ur pretty much working against time as well, cuz our "uber" infantry aint going to hold up to anything for long. So while your infantry. archers and rbt are playing a fighting retreat, your cavalry are turning the flank, then overrunning, hitting another unit, so on..... AS i said though...i usually kill mages really quickly. Its only when its something thats hard to kill/get that i get into trouble. Like slann, tzeentch...

I am not afraid to use scrolls in the beginning, cuz im mage hunting all the time...so usually by turn 3/4 i have killed one or two.

Lmao..about the light armour on the archers...its a filler....i had 10 points exactly left, and the models are converted from spearmen...so i may well. occasionally i say a guy or so.

NarCiS
20-07-2005, 08:51
I guess the way you describe it makes it ok to have 3 dispel dice, but as you've said: Slann, Tzeentch, or horsed mages even (controlled well these can survive a lot) will decimate your force. Also, one guy in my gaming group runs a bretonnian peasant horde with a lvl 4 and 2 lvl 2 damsels, all safely inbedded in his only knight units... He usually doesnt charge them but uses them for backing up the peasants instead. In those kind of armies it will be hard to mage hunt. :P

Lord Anathir
20-07-2005, 18:06
Indeed....hence the reason why I don't use that army any more. ;) However, it is a very fun army to play, especially for those who dont value magic. (or think its too expensive)