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Caligula
03-02-2007, 17:18
Greetings again all. I've just made up a 1000 point pure Beasts of Chaos list and I really like the looks of it. I thought I'd post it here to see what you all thought.

Wargor-
Great Weapon
Horn of the Great Hunt
Crimson Armour of Dargan
@114pts.

Bray-Shaman-
Level 2
Staff of Darkoth
Power Stone
@160pts.

Beastherd I-
10 Gor
14 Ungor
Musician
Standard Bearer
Foe-Render
@161pts.

Beastherd II-
7 Gor
7 Ungor
Foe-Render
@97pts.

Beastherd III-
7 Gor
7 Ungor
Foe-Render
@97pts.

5 Warhounds of Chaos
@30pts.

5 Warhounds of Chaos
@30pts.

Tuskgor Chariot
@85pts.

Tuskgor Chariot
@85pts.

3 Minotaurs-
Great Weapons
@138pts.

TOTAL-997pts.

So, thoughts?

Edited to separate the Wargor from the Chariot.

zak
03-02-2007, 20:04
The only thing I would worry about are the trolls. If your characters get sucked away then they leadership 4 and probably dribbling forward at half pace. Otherwise a very good and competetive list.

M_M
04-02-2007, 13:20
IIRC you can't put heroes in chariots only lords, (just split the wargor and chariot)

if you could say if you going to ambush with which units and where your characters are likely to be placed would help

Caligula
04-02-2007, 20:21
Ah, thank you very much, M_M, that's something I completely overlooked. You're correct, my Wargor cannot be in a chariot. It's a simple matter of just separating them as you've said...consider that done.

As for which units I'll be using as ambushers, well...Beastherd III and one of the Warhounds units are definite ambushers. Possibly Beastherd II as well, if that fits within the amount I'm allowed to ambush. I think 28 Beastmen and 5 Hounds would be a rather devastating ambush force, which is relatively relaible too, thanks to the Foe-Renders and the Horn of the Great Hunt.

Edit: Just checked it out, and I can have up to three ambushing units in this army(half of all characters and units with the Ambush special rule, rounded down). This means my ambushing units will be Beastherd II, Beastherd III, and one of the Warhounds units. Do you think this is too much to have set up in ambush, or entirely worth it?

Makaber
05-02-2007, 03:15
Well, the way I've always looked at ambush, it certainly doesn't hurt. If you ambush as soon as possible, even if you miss the mark completely on your units, they will probably end up fairly close to the action anyway. And just the threat of a massive ambush (or several smaller ones) screws up your opponents plans to no end. By having a lot of ambush-capable units in the army, you retain the option, even if you don't take advantage of it in every game.

The list looks good. The only thing that concerns me are the trolls. Trolls are normally very good, but the best leadership they can hope to test on is 7, meaning they will fail almost half the time. I'd really advice against them unless you're playing 2000 points or more, where you can get a Lord. Even the Ld 8 of a beastlord is a massive leap in reliability. In their place I'd get some Minotaurs with great weapons. The Strength 6 will come in handy, and compliments the multitude of low-strength attacks of your herds very nicely.

Kremmet
05-02-2007, 07:00
As Makaber has noted, trolls are generally a bad idea in a BoC army unless you're led by a Shaggoth or Doombull (both lord choices that take away your ambush ability). As far as the list goes, pretty solid, but might I suggest you change your Brayshaman from having the Goretooth to the Staff of Darkoth? Really, not taking advantage of one of the few magic charges in 7th that only allow your opponent to hold seems follow to me (just give him Lore of the Beast if you're really looking forward to that Bear's Anger as it's the first spell now).

As far as your ambush plan, remember that you need ample targets for your opponent to pick on, too. If you follow your current ambush plan, you've got nothing to put the pressure on your opponent's range with the exception of a single unit of hounds (herds aren't quite fast enough...). I'd suggest that you ambush both the herds you were planning on, but also send a Bray Shaman with the afore mentioned Staff of Darkoth so that he and his herd may attempt to charge the turn they come on as opposed to waiting for the next turn. This way, you'd got two fairly fast units (warhounds) to either draw fire or scare archers into moving along with having a magic user and two skirmishing units coming in to close the trap on your opponent. Now, the flaw with my suggestion here is that you won't get that +1 dispell dice while your shaman is off the board, but you should be able to live through a single turn of magic at 1000 pts with just the base two dice.

Always nice to see more BoC players, especially considering their being hamstrung in 7th!

Caligula
05-02-2007, 17:25
Okay, thanks for the advice, Makaber and Kremmet!

You know, I was just considering removing the trolls and replacing them with Great Weapon armed Minotaurs. At this points level I just can't have that many points tied up in a unit that will potentially be useless half the time. Consider that change to be made...

As for the Staff of Darkoth over the Goretooth, well...I'll give it some thought. I really like the Goretooth though...;)

mightygnoblar
05-02-2007, 18:25
i second the staff of darkoth over the goretooth, a unit that can appear behind him the enemy is one thing, a unit that can appear behind the enemy then charge is far better, overall the list looks good, the only real problem i can see is the stupidity on the trolls, but thats already been mentioned, im not a big fan of minotaurs though and would probably go for something with a bit more staying power, like a couple of spawns or for some centigors for real speed and hitting power

Caligula
06-02-2007, 13:51
Okay, thanks for the the suggestion, mightygnoblar. I'll look into doing as you suggest. Since this is at least the second vote for the Staff of Darkoth, well...I suppose I'll have to seriously consider changing the Goretooth. Look for an update soon.

natedogg710
07-02-2007, 01:40
If you want something with more staying power instead of the Trolls, you should probably go with Chaos Ogres. If you give them Heavy Armour and Shields they each have a 4+ save in cc and 3 wounds.

I agree with others that the Staff of Darkoth is probably a better bet than the Goretooth.

Makaber
07-02-2007, 03:13
If you want something with more staying power instead of the Trolls, you should probably go with Chaos Ogres. If you give them Heavy Armour and Shields they each have a 4+ save in cc and 3 wounds.

No, no, no! Okay so you have a unit with an armour save, but what is it supposed to do? It only has a US of 9, so it's not gonna outnumber-fear anything any time soon. For offense it has 9 attacks at Strength 4, but the WS is only 3 so you won't be near the punch you need to actually win combats. This means you're going to lose out to static CR, and heavy armour is no good when you're getting run down, my friend. With such a unit, you absolutely have to team it up with some other element of the army, and they're still not contributing in any way.

So, to sum up: Three Chaos Ogres are no good at all, because they neither have the offensive might to act as shock troops, nor the static CR to function well as an anvil.

What you want is Minotaurs. Chariots and Herds are really good against basic infantry, but you'll have a really hard time with anything with enough armour to stand up to a chariot charge. What you need is some high-strength love, and Minotaurs are your best bet because they have great weapons, and the high Weapon Skill you need to get the most out of them. Plus, they're reliable with Ld 8 and a free Mark of Chaos Undivided. The extra d6 pursue distance just sweetens the deal.

If you absolutely want some staying power, you could always try Dragon Ogres, that are superior to Minotaurs in every way but cost nearly twice as much. They're a good bet but attract a lot of attention, and eats up a huge chunck of your 1000 points, so I'd recommend against them in this size army.

I sort of agree with what people has said about the Shaman. The Goretooth is really really good normally, but not so much in a one-shaman setup. Simple fact is: You're basically trying to make a Shaman a really good fighting character, but the highest you can cast Bears Anger at is 3d6, which is relativly easy to dispell because your opponent knows he won't be facing any more spells with your one remaining power dice. And without a Bears Anger active, you're paying 25 pts. for hatred on a two-attack hero. It's a bit too much of a one-trick pony that can't be relied upon. If you want a fighty character, get another Wargor.

As long as you're upgraded your Shaman to Level 2, you might as well try to get something out of him. You're allready casting two spells a turn at 2d6 each spell, which is probably enough to get past an enemy scroll caddie a couple of times during the game. You can better those odds by the addition of a Power Familiar, or maybe a Power Stone (for a nasty surprise if timed right). The others have praised the Staff of Darkoth a lot, which is really good, but it's very tricky to make it work. The spell is expensive, and you don't have a lot of power dice to go around. The scenario of launching an ambush, then charging the same round is highly optimistic (unfortunately), because its bound to happen very early in the game, at a stage your opponent probably will have a dispell scroll stored away somewhere. If you decide to go with it, though, the Staff of Darkoth and Powerstone combo is really the way to go, as it gives you that extra castin' juice you need to overpower whatever defenses you're up against. Personally I'd tool the Shaman up for a more allround approach (he's a bit of a one-trick pony as he is now), but the Staff/Stone combo is your best route if you decide to go that way.

Ed.: This is very good advice, by the way. Heed me.

Caligula
08-02-2007, 01:33
Okay, I'm ready to make the mentioned changes. Makaber, thank you very much for the extensive help here...trust me, your words will not go unheeded. Look for an update to the list very soon.

Thanks again, all.

Caligula
08-02-2007, 01:45
There, the list has been edited. I removed the Trolls, and in turn added a 3-strong unit of Minotaurs with Great Weapons and Light Armour, as Makaber suggested. I think they'll do the trick nicely.

As for the Shaman, he's been given the Staff of Darkoth and a Power Stone. Once again, I think he'll work much better now, thanks everyone for opening my eyes on that one.

Finally, I had 10 points left over...so I bought the Wargor an Enchanted Shield. Honestly, I can't see it coming in all the handy too much, but on the odd occasion might save him from some missile fire(?). If anyone has any better suggestions, I'm willing to hear them.

All in all, I think the army is much more...lethal-seeming now. Thanks so much for all the help everyone.

Makaber
08-02-2007, 02:01
I don't have the book on me, but I'm pretty certain you can drop the Minotaur armour (6+ is really a luxury you can buy if you have points to spare, it won't affect the units performance much) and the Enchanted Shield, and get a magical armour for the Wargor. Remember that when buying chaos armours from the magic items section of the Hordes of Chaos book, it's priced to accomodate Mortal champions who are allready wearing 4+ Chaos Armour as a default, so you essencially only pay for the ability, and get the armour save as a free bonus. Armour of Damnation is stupidly good, but the very affordable Crimson Armour of Dargan is not shabby either, considering how 1000 pts. games usually have a lower leadership going around than 2000 pts. ones.

The list is looking rock solid now, by the way. Good luck. :)

Caligula
08-02-2007, 02:06
Ahh excellent advice, thanks Makaber. I honestly hadn't thought to look for some decent magic items in my Hordes of Chaos book...I do believe I shall. The Light Armour on the Minotaurs was basically a points fill, but yeah...doesn't end up doing too much. I'll look into buying a decent suit of 20 point armour;)

Update..again soon.

Edit: Okay, so I removed the Light Armour from the Minotaurs and the Heavy Armour and Enchanted Shield from the Wargor. This is replaced by the Crimson Armour of Dargan for the Wargor, which makes him insanely more survivable. Very nice:)