PDA

View Full Version : 2000 Chaos - Where the Knights?



Voltaire
05-02-2007, 00:54
Another list for you all to sample. I think its quite flexible.


Lord (E.champ)
Gaze of the Gods, Enchanted Shield, Great Weapon
[144]

Sorceror
2 Dispel Scrolls
[135]

BSB
Crown of Everlasting Conquest
[155]

25 Marauders
Full Command, Light Armour, Shields
[200]

25 Marauders
Full Command, Light Armour, Shields, Great Weapons
[250]

15 Warriors
Shields, Extra Hand Weapons, Full Command, Warbanner
[325]

Chariot
[120]

Chariot
[120]

8 Furies
[120]

3 Dragon Ogres
Light Armour, Great Weapons
[237]

Marauder Horsemen
Flails, Musician
[96]

Marauder Horsemen
Flails, Musician
[96]

Pts: 2000


Opinions?

Mephistofeles
05-02-2007, 11:56
Looks good, and I'm guessing from the title that you don't want any knights, but I would still advicce you to take a unit of knights instead of the dragon ogres, or maybe instead of a unit of marauders.

I also think that you should absolutely drop a level from your wizard, on his own he won't do much good offensively anyway, so I think that you should just drop a level and use those points for a unit of hounds.

Voltaire
05-02-2007, 13:45
I am thinking of using this army in a tournament. The pro's and cons of Dragon Ogres as opposed to knights seem to go more in favour in the way of Dragon Ogres since they are cheaper than a tooled up unit of Chosen Knights and are a bit better against psychology. Good idea about the hounds though.

Inkosi
05-02-2007, 14:01
what should i say...

half way here and half way there.

from your title i thought it was going to be an all infantry army. turns out to be a mix army of infantry and cav.

all undivided from the pts if i am not wrong.

hmmm... quite balanced and if need to name a weakness i would say its lacking of a punch.

then again the mix of units gives your army a flexibilty which more than makes up for it i guess.

nice list. and ya why 6 hounds. drop 1 magic level and you might squeeze in 1 more fury.

Voltaire
05-02-2007, 16:16
I have the choice of 2 extra furies and a great weapon for my Exalted champion or the hounds. What do you think?

theDarkGeneral
05-02-2007, 17:27
Just some quick thoughts...

I think your list is on the slow side...the speedy units that you do have are either very fragile (Marauder Horsemen, Warhounds, Chaos Furies) or high points cost (Dragon Ogres)...the fragile units are also small in size, so once they start taking casualties from enemy Magic and Shooting, they're effectiveness will be greatly reduced...the Dragon Ogres are very tough, but will now draw a lot of unwanted attention to themselves because they're really your only hard hitting unit that will be of any concern by Turn 2...

When I field this type of list, I don't bother with a BSB, and concentrate on Magical Assault...2 or 3 Sorecerers; Skull of Katam, Power Familiar, Spell Familiar w/Powerstone...you must whittle down your foe and force them to want to fight you...


Hope this helps...

Inkosi
06-02-2007, 14:50
I have the choice of 2 extra furies and a great weapon for my Exalted champion or the hounds. What do you think?

2 extra furies option. you dont really need the hound in your army.


Just some quick thoughts...

I think your list is on the slow side...the speedy units that you do have are either very fragile (Marauder Horsemen, Warhounds, Chaos Furies) or high points cost (Dragon Ogres)...the fragile units are also small in size, so once they start taking casualties from enemy Magic and Shooting, they're effectiveness will be greatly reduced...


you dont know what you're talking about.

1stly, the speedy units. if the opponent shoots the hounds and furies or even horsemen, i would say they done their job. hello, they are cannon fodder, they are supposed to die. if letting them die can bring the bulk of my army across y not?? fragile units are meant to be kept small. why do you want to make them big when they die just as easily?? you are just wasting the points.

dragon ogres. his choice cost 237 pts only 12 pts higher than a unit of 5 undivided chosen knights. and i would say its much effective than a unit of 5 undivided chosen knights.

kyussinchains
06-02-2007, 16:05
plus, the dragon ogres cause fear and their S7 attacks are much better armour busters than S5 knights!

I'd think about a couple of spawn myself, they present more threats for your opponent and will be moving around the same speed as the rest of your army

just my opinion, I like the list otherwise!

Voltaire
07-02-2007, 10:50
I am going with the extra furies and the great weapon simply because it is a better means of playing this list in my opinion. Hounds are a bit too mediocre in this instance for my liking.

I agree with kyussinchains about the Dragon Ogres. Everytime I play with Chaos Knights they become nothing more than a failed psychology test. Using them in this new way means I can manouvere my D.Oges without worrying too much about that unit of Dire Wolves making me run away scared.

cold0
07-02-2007, 10:58
I agree with kyussinchains about the Dragon Ogres. Everytime I play with Chaos Knights they become nothing more than a failed psychology test.

Well, take them with the Mark of Chaos Undivided (re-roll the failed psychology tests) or Slaanesh (immune to psychology) or Khorne (while in frenzy they are immune to psychology and you can give them a Banner of Rage).

Voltaire
07-02-2007, 11:03
The re-roll normally results in failure. Khorne is completely unappealing and I'd rather go all Slaanesh or no Slaanesh. That or they fail their break test...

Neknoh
07-02-2007, 11:38
You cannot reroll or ignore a Break Test when Undivded/Immune to Psychology, only things such as Panic and Fear tests can be rerolled when Undivided and ignored when one of the other two.

My biggest gripe with the list is that your Sorceror is level 2 and that your generl won't ever get any use out of the Enchanted Shield, I'd rather give him the Helemet of Many Eyes than the Gaze of the Gods as well, always strikes first with strength 7 is vicious

Voltaire
07-02-2007, 15:39
At the same time, not having a Ward Save at 2000pts on a General tends to be a fallacy. The sorceror is NOT level 2 either. If you look at his points cost he is Level 1!

kyussinchains
07-02-2007, 15:50
undivided knights are clearly the weakest option, however the mark of nurgle is very expensive on an already expensive unit, the mark of khorne leaves them vulnerable to being baited, and again is an expensive mark. Slaanesh makes them unable to flee, which is a pain when you get hit in the flank by a big gribbly monster.

I say stick with the dragon ogres!

cold0
07-02-2007, 17:16
I say stick with the dragon ogres!


Ok, but they are quite expensive (70 pt. each) and if the Voltaire's problem is the psychology test of the Knights the Dragon Ogres are marginal better (cause fear/same LD of the Knights).

Cleary A3 with S7 for model make the difference.

Let's see: for 228 we can have 3 Dragon Ogres with Great Weapon or for 220 4 Chosen Knights with Mark of Chaos Undivided or for 231 7 Chosen Knights with Mark of Chaos Undivided.

Probably Voltaire is right.

sphincter man
07-02-2007, 18:45
looks like a pretty strong list, i would say one thing: get rid of gaze of the gods, it sucks!! give him something like "armour of damnation" or "bane shield", they are good for the points.

other than that it's a great list.

Wings of Doom
07-02-2007, 19:24
A 4+ ward save for cheaper than normal doesn't suck, and you won't be running that often because you have the mark of undivided and are rock solid in combat, so the catch isn't that worrysome either.

Dragon ogres have more attacks at higher strength on the front rank than non chosen knights, cause fear, have more wounds than their points worth of knights (although a worse save) and are immune to lightning (huzzah!).

And, Cold0, you have a bit of a typo- 3 Chosen Knights do not cost eleven points.

theDarkGeneral
07-02-2007, 19:54
Inkosi: Actually, I do know what I'm talking about...I've been doing this for a while, and helping other players become better both in tactics and army design for some time...screens may very well eat up some Magic and Shooting, but they also set you back an inch or two during deployment...and most Zappy/Shooty Armies don't set in right at 12"...so you're going to take even longer to get there...if anything is left...the Warhounds in small unit sizes need only 2 to die and then force a Panic check...which unless they're right by the general will probably fail and run through your troops causing unwanted panic checks...the same can happen with a larger unit, but they have to expend a bit more effort to do it...if the unit is reduced to less then Unit Strength 5, it's Flee through your own units won't matter...except that now your precious screen is gone and the real target now available...good players will Zap the screens, and either wipe them out of force them to Panic away...even if they don't killing just a few soft models means they'll be able to draw LOS past their depleted number to the jucier targets...cannon fodder doesn't stop cannon balls from bouncing through their units...not much does...the Dragon Ogres are a great choice, if you pay attention to my posts I never knock them, but because they're the only real threat that is fast, they'll attract a lot of attention...and they're not only a threat, but a good VP target...all the frail units have a high chance of getting blasted to death on Turns 1 and 2...and thus cause a lot of Panic checks for units destroyed within 6" that are US 5 or higher...


So, HELLO, before you get rude or snippy online, know what and who you're talking about...

Keep it constructive.