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View Full Version : HE vs Skaven, need help



Mzygi
05-02-2007, 07:46
I'm ussually playing my HE with Skaven and my friend now tries to use clan Skryre - Grey Seer on Screaming Bell as many mages as he can, 3 or 4 warp cannons, 2 units of Guter runners and a chieftan with Banner of Storm to counter my RBT
We're ussually playing big battles(3000pts or more) and i can't counter his magic so he rip any of my units in 1 or 2 turns
Other thing are his warp cannons - even if 2 of them have misfire the other two can destroy much of my smaller units.
Please help how can I counter his magic and cannons
I can field almost anything, maybe without Phoenix Guard

Dralafi
05-02-2007, 09:24
That is tricky... I play skavens myself but I'll try to help you as much as possible...

Lets start breaking it down. From what you've told me he fields at least 4 clanrat units, how big are they? 20+? What unit carries the greyseer? Does he have stormvermin, plaguemonks? At 3k he isnt allowed to field more then 3 cannons, which means no censor bearers which (probably) means no monks. As many mages as he can, means 4 at 3k again.

First off, if possible, dont take cav against this army. The bell in my experience is mostly useful vs cav and undead. Secondly, greyseer can be sniped ontop of the screaming bell. He's got a weak ward save, but with enough elf arrows/bolts he'll fall which effectively earns you a minimum of 500 VP. Your magic should be vastly superior to his. Fight fire with fire and take as many scroll cadies as you can muster. Force those WLC to take leadership tests and odds are they'll bolt. Even with generals leadership range they still only have a 6 leadership (assuming he doesnt take a warlord).

Dont know what else to suggest really... If higher points are working against you, go down to 2000, the greyseer and cannons are really really expensive at that point and clocks in at around 700 for the set.

I'm more then happy to help you further as I really loath the shooty skaven armies.

Mzygi
05-02-2007, 16:57
He uses 3 units of 25 clanrats and unit of 20 stormvermin and lots of slaves
he plays clan Skryre army list - cannons are in special
thanks much I'll try to use this

Corrupt
05-02-2007, 18:16
Hm.
Scroll Caddies to shut down his magic.
RBT's to blow holes in that screaming bell.
Lotsa spearmen/other line infantry. Charge them into his clanrats/stormvermin.
25 Spears vs 25 Clanrats suits us fine. We'l win the attrittion war, break them and run them down. Because he is so warmachine heavy, you should be able to get almost as many elves as he has rats and take away a huge skaven advantage

Dralafi
05-02-2007, 19:29
Those skryre/pestilens/eshin(none storm of chaos list)/moulder army lists are not legal in the same sense as the standard old list, for good reason too... They are only available if you agree to it. Just checked the book and yes, he has to ask you permission to play the list and I quote: "... are in no way as balanced as the main list." That should give you a fair bit of a heads up.

With only 3 clanrat units he's not allowed to field more then 3 of the same unit as they are mainstay unit, as in, 3 clanrat units, no more then 3 slave units, 3 cannons, 3 gutter runner units etc etc etc

As Corrupt said, use RBT to blow the greyseer of the bell, its a large target and therefor cant be protected in any way, shape or form from missile fire. The greyseer will get nailed at some point and he will die and when he does, the bell is a huge paperweight for that unit.

Easiest way to shut him down is demand he play the skaven as per official list instead of the fluff lists at the back of the book. At least then you'll be on equal terms.

Gn0b
05-02-2007, 21:44
Also, what armies have you been facing him with before? you've said quite a bit about his army, but nothing about yours...

Also, anything with as craptacular leadership as a skaven clanrat is doomed whan being shot at.(do skaven get that rank=ld bonus when being shot?) at the range of an rbt you can panick/destroy a clanrat unit the first turn, take out a cannon or two the next, and by then you'll be in cc... but you will need those scroll cadies.

Alathir
06-02-2007, 01:43
I have no experience in playing High Elves... but I have played against Skaven a fair bit. My advice is to get into combat as quickly as possible, you will easily win ANY combat you have 1v1, the skaven are terrible, terrible fighters and even their elite sucks ass.

Dralafi
06-02-2007, 05:54
leadership bonus always applies as long as he's got ranks for it up to a maximum of 3 ranks. But shooting is still the most effective way to strip those down and force tests. Easiest would probably be to kill a cannon and watch the rest run. The clanrat units and stormvermin will have a leadership of 9 when untouched but all you gotto do is kill one, and all of a sudden he's lost 1 rank bonus on the vermin. 6 to remove 1 from clanrats, but still. If possible, ignore the slaves, they are just roadbumps for your infantry. They'll have a max leadership of 5, but snakeeyes do happen...

Skavens are terrible fighters, at least the ones he's put forth in this army... The ones that always scores the most kills vs being killed are monks and censer bearers which he has none of. Gutter runners arent bad either considering. They're a scalpel, not a scythe and they take some skills to use properly (and luck if tunneling in) not to mention REALLY expensive. Personally I dont consider skavens to have any elite units. I see them as more or less armored clanrats and treat them accordingly on the battlefield.

He said he can field anything but Phoenix Guards. But you're right, we dont know what he's been using up until this point. I suspect chariots and cav with a mix of archers and spearmen. No idea for characters.

Tutore
06-02-2007, 14:21
I regularly massacre my skaven opponents who use a grey seer on a bell. Just destroy that unit. Cavalry, heavy and fast, will do. A couple of dispel scrolls are needed.

505
06-02-2007, 16:38
remeber your scroll caddies can all take high magic....drain magic and fortune is fickle (when you get them off) will really hurt his magic phase as well

also do not forget you get +1 to dispell and with the sorcerers staff (I think thats the one) gives you +2 to dispell.

Mzygi
08-02-2007, 09:55
I used army like this:

Archmage
Silver Wand
2x Dispel Scroll
Ring of Fury
Mage
Jewel of the Dusk
Ring of Corin
Mage
2x Dispel Scroll
2x 20 Spearmen
Full Command
2x 10 Silver Helms
Full Command
20 Swordmasters
Full Command
Banner of Sorcery and Blessed Tome
2 Chariots
8 Shadow Warriors
2 RBT
2 Eagles
20 White Lions
Full Command
Standard of Arcane Protection
Total: 3000pts