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Data007
08-02-2007, 04:36
How many people here own/regularly use a Space Marine in Inquisitor? I own the model, with a head swap for the proper Marine helmet. (I hate going bareheaded) And, in my local INQ games, I use a pair of Scouts. Basically a mix of Inquisitor profiles with that of the Space Marine.

Vattendroppe
08-02-2007, 06:27
I like much, much more to play ranger/human. Like playing a more detailed necromunda! You'll constantly have to think about what you're doing since you're not some kind of superhuman ;) especially when a orc or a genestealer or so comes down on you!

precinctomega
08-02-2007, 09:17
Quite so. I do own a Space Marine and he does have a (sort of) place in the staff of one of my Inquisitors - she's Ordo Xenos, he's Deathwatch, but he's more there to keep an eye on her than to assist.

Vattendroppe has it right in the main, though - I like my characters to have to strive for victory.

R.

Charax
08-02-2007, 11:51
Let's see. I have a Flame Falcon, a Relictor, a Howling Griffon with a Lascannon, a scout and a couple more in parts.

The scout's the only one that I'd consider using in a normal game, but Marines can be quite useful if they have a decent motivation and weaknesses.

For example, the Flame Falcons' armour is an old mark, and generally weaker than normal. His mutation is such that it causes damage to him, neutering the otherwise sick recovery skills of normal marines. He's travelling the galaxy trying to find a cure.

In general, though, Marines just aren't that interesting, that's why I prefer using humans.

*Makes a pinning test*
[dice0][dice1]

EDIT: 96? god damn. *runs for cover*

Vattendroppe
08-02-2007, 12:30
How do one make that dice? I quoted and it said the code was [dice0], but it didn't seem to work...

But i guess that the problem with using humans is that you often have to go over to 28mm scale, since there seems not to be very many different human models in 58mm scale...

Charax
08-02-2007, 12:41
There are a hell of a lot more 54mm humans than there are 54mm Space Marines!!!

Inquisitor models are usually heavily converted - you'd be amazed the variations you can get with some green stuff and some Headswaps (I managed to file down Artemis's hair to make him bald and added GS burn scars)

the code for dice is Y where X is the number of dice and Y is the number of sides (4, 6, 8, 10, 12 or 20)

I did it as two seperate sets of rolls because I don't want them added up, but you can do them in batches by changing the X value:
[dice0]

Wish we had a D100 option where the first die was the tens...
Anyway, enough about dice. You never HAVE to go 28mm - if you make the effort to go 54mm there are so many, many benefits.

Vattendroppe
08-02-2007, 12:45
I guess I mismembered, quite some while ago I had a look at the inq models, sorry about that...

Rabid Bunny 666
08-02-2007, 15:41
I used to have one, but reading through the rules, they are too powerful.

Malen Kharn
08-02-2007, 16:50
I have a five man Deathwatch Kill Team. I have never used these as a player warband, but they are my anti-beardyness enforcers when i'm GMing.
Me: "right, your seriously gona shoot that guy in the back for no reason"
Player: "yeah, ce's clearly not on our side, and i want to kill him before he can screw me over"
Me: "ok, he doesnt se it coming, and falls to the floor in a heap. The door to the left opens and five annoyed marines walk through :D "
Player: "S**t"

I did use a single marine in my warband when i first started playing. But i got nothing but grief when i put it on the table, and he was dead (and i mean properly so) by the end of turn 3 :cries: .

Malen

inq.serge
08-02-2007, 16:54
I have one, his name is Bob, he follows my OX Inq. acolyte and watches over "Lord Black" so he/she wouldn't do anything stupid. Bob is a blood angel and before he became a SM, he was a friend/bodyguard/retinue member of said Inq. acolyte.

Here's Bob
http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/AlfredoPistoleto/Inq/?action=view&current=Azzragal.jpg
And here's he next to Ebba Bowman and "Lord Black" and my other Inq.lords veichle; 619 "Emelie".
http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/AlfredoPistoleto/Inq/?action=view&current=Emelie.jpg

Crazy Snika
11-02-2007, 20:27
Spacemarines dont work. They are to good. Inquisitor is all about fun, and they are not fun to play with or against.
I guess that I you had a full on space marine war it might work, but then whoever went first would win as they would pumel lead into everyone else.

I <3 space marines in 40k though :P

precinctomega
12-02-2007, 09:53
I've never understood this "they don't work" thing. They are what they are, like every other character. You might as well say "Eldar don't work" or "Inquisitors in power armour don't work".

They work as well as the scenario they are playing in, the GM controlling it and the players participating.

In agree that there are some loopholes in the rules that can lead to some odd circumstances when playing with marines, but that isn't to the detriment of the Marine archetype per se.

In fact, on Games Day, I ran two games with a marine in them. In one he went down hard to an Eldar renegade with a powersword and Speed 6. In the second he mashed up his opponents big style, but it has to be said that they didn't approach him with much intelligence!

R.

chromedog
13-02-2007, 12:01
I have a collection of =I= figs, mostly humans. I do have a SM (and a statured daemon prince from 40k as his chaotic counterpart). The marines only ever get used by the gm (they are plot devices). Players get the humans. Law Enforcement team (two enforcers with a doggy and an Inq), renegades (two human gunbunnies and the eldar ranger), or the inq hit team (lord in PA with a gun servitor and psyber-eagle).

The SM is armed with a storm bolter and power sword. The chaos marine with a bolter (with chain bayonet) and Galthite lacerator. Both can dish out a world of hurt, but can be taken out by any of the other teams if they think about it.

Boss_Salvage
13-02-2007, 15:23
I just bought my =][= marine, having broken down and added him to the mob of unpainted =][= models I've amassed. Thing is, I like to play a lower tech game, and generally don't like power weapons and such, especially on marines. With this in mind, Doom Warrior Battle Brother Gorge will be armed with two bolt pistols, a knife and a selection of frag, krak and blind grenades. A load of short-range dakka, followed by a D6+19 damage knife attak :evilgrin:

The plan is to take Gorge to Games Day Baltimore, in case people are throwing down there and are being beardy ... :wtf:

- Salvage

Catferret
14-02-2007, 00:32
Tried using Throwing stars on a Marine? The damage is less variable than a Bolt Pistol so you frequently cripple people faster. Remember that you get to add your damage bonus to Throwing Weapons... Hey, you wanted lower tech on your Marine... ;)

Arael
14-02-2007, 01:42
A friend and I played about with introducing the Zerg as a small hunter-brood.

We had the idea that an infested victim would lose D100% intelligence, but gain the same percentage in strength. As you could imagine, our Infested Marine was quite a powerhouse. I think he still has the model somewhere.

Boss_Salvage
14-02-2007, 15:31
@ Catferret - Ha, yes! I've wanted to give a marine a javelin too, for similar reasons, though I hadn't thought about the benefits vs. bolt pistols and such. Got too caught up in the mayhem quatient ;)

- Salvage

Catferret
14-02-2007, 19:38
Throwing Stars are Semi2! Forget Javelins!

studderigdave
18-02-2007, 16:03
great, now i have to face salvage's ninja marine with throwing stars. he is out for blood i know it, after the thrashing my eversor gave his mob of 3 yesterday.

Boss_Salvage
20-02-2007, 15:14
Doom Warriors Battle Brother Gorge is gonna eat that eversor soon enough - and bugger the ninja stars just give the man a sturdy brick :evilgrin:

- Salvage

Storlock
26-02-2007, 17:00
i agree with crazy snika the space marine model is too hard even when me and a mate lowered his skills and downgraded him he killed us all inquistitor is about fun not winning. For example i was playing my mate The_Hrud he has a c'tan deciever and uses it as an unbound demonhost it goes around killing my men and his own men so its about fun!

Sabbad
26-02-2007, 21:04
Like any other model in Inqusitior, Space Marines have their own unique abilities that should be considered when including them in a mission. A skillful GM should be able to play on their weaknesses as well as strengths, or else only use them when appropriate.

I have never played with a Space Marine, or had one involved in a game I've played. That doesn't necessarily mean I'd never EVER use them on principle- if it was suitable for the campaign narrative, I would go for it.

Scanno
27-02-2007, 00:44
i agree with crazy snika the space marine model is too hard even when me and a mate lowered his skills and downgraded him he killed us all inquistitor is about fun not winning. For example i was playing my mate The_Hrud he has a c'tan deciever and uses it as an unbound demonhost it goes around killing my men and his own men so its about fun!

Please use punctuations! Commas (,) and full stops (.) are great and wonderful things that make reading much easier!

I own a marine model. He's painted up deathwatch/former Storm Lord. He's got the standard bolter and a chainsword made from malicants eviscerator. Love the model, probably one of my fave GW sculpts ever, and I'm very happy with my paint job on him. I rarely play =][= any more, but he was part of my Xenos band, along with the Magos Biologis, and the inquisitor.

precinctomega
28-02-2007, 09:57
the space marine model is too hard even when me and a mate lowered his skills and downgraded him he killed us all inquistitor is about fun not winning.


For example i was playing my mate The_Hrud he has a c'tan deciever and uses it as an unbound demonhost it goes around killing my men and his own men so its about fun!

Err... So having a Space Marine run around killing people is no fun, but having an Unbound Daemonhost do the same thing is? You've lost me.

I suggest reading Gav Thorpe's article on Space Marines (linked to earlier in this thread). Giving a marine the objective "kill everyone" is a short route to a dull game because they're so damn good at it. Try giving them an objective they're not so good at, like: remain inconspicuous; negotiate a narrow sewer path; persuade a child to accompany him...

R.

Sabbad
28-02-2007, 18:23
...or protect a much more vulnerable character, identify a specific individual as possessed prior to termination, assassinate someone without being identified as the murderer, move through an obstacle course etc.

The_Hrud
02-03-2007, 16:32
my bro's marine used a sword instead of a bolter, because he was being INNEFICIENT! we'd even toned him down, but he just walke along the corridor killing!and for the record, i havn't used the daemon host yet.

The_Hrud
05-03-2007, 13:48
[QUOTE=precinctomega;1340162]Err... So having a Space Marine run around killing people is no fun, but having an Unbound Daemonhost do the same thing is? You've lost me.

well, omega, tbh, i dont judje that because my daemonhost would kill people on all sides that that's ok; as you say its all about the scenario and objectives. admittedly i'm not a great gm, but i know that when you put two warbands opposite eachother, sit down, and say "ok, kill eachother" that you're not gonna have the best time. its not just about killing people. if you want to play at killing people, go play 40k with adam, the casualties are horrendous. inq is played as a release from the slugging matches of the core games.

precinctomega
05-03-2007, 17:00
i'm not a great gm, but i know that when you put two warbands opposite eachother, sit down, and say "ok, kill eachother" that you're not gonna have the best time. its not just about killing people. if you want to play at killing people, go play 40K with adam, the casualties are horrendous. INQ is played as a release from the slugging matches of the core games.

And you're telling me this, because..?

The fact was that you objected to Space Marines because of their ability to kill things with impunity, but were quite happy with a daemonhost that did the same thing.

You have now come back and said, if I understand you, "yeah, but daemonhosts are okay like that when you take into account their motivation and interaction with the PCs on the tabletop".

And this is the point where I direct you back to the post where I said exactly the same thing about Space Marines.

R.

Dyrnwyn
05-03-2007, 21:55
And you're telling me this, because..?

The fact was that you objected to Space Marines because of their ability to kill things with impunity, but were quite happy with a daemonhost that did the same thing.

You have now come back and said, if I understand you, "yeah, but daemonhosts are okay like that when you take into account their motivation and interaction with the PCs on the tabletop".

And this is the point where I direct you back to the post where I said exactly the same thing about Space Marines.

R.

I think the primary difference between a Space Marine and a Daemonhost is that while both are dangerous, the Daemonhost is actually killable, as it doesn't have T150+ and power armor.

Personally, I'd never run a Space Marine/CSM in game, except as an end of campaign finisher where multiple warbands could dogpile on him and actually stand a chance of killing him. And I'd never ever allow anyone to actually run a Marine as part of thier warband, unless it was a naked Marine, as the Imperial Fist was in The Inquisition War. And even then, I probably would weight scenarios against the Marine.

Lord Inquisitor
06-03-2007, 20:11
In agree that there are some loopholes in the rules that can lead to some odd circumstances when playing with marines, but that isn't to the detriment of the Marine archetype per se.


What, like this...?


Tried using Throwing stars on a Marine?

Ninja stars being more effective than bolt pistols... that doesn't harm the Marine archetype? :rolleyes:

Anyhow, back on topic.

Marines are GREAT in Inquisitor. It is the perfect system to really portray the Angels of Death, and they can provide some fun roleplaying opportunities. Naturally they should either be under the GM's control or heavily monitored, but there's nothing quite like an angry chaos space marine to make the players double-take and the GM can make things really interesting for anyone playing a loyalist Marine ... especially if he's from one of the more bleeding-heart chapters like the Salamanders, although personally I find the more brutal the Marine the better. The subtle Inquisitor might well get a shock when his Malevolent ally decides to open fire on the crowd...

Catferret
06-03-2007, 20:24
I would just like to step in here and point out that I have never used a Marine in Inquisitor and if I did, would never give it throwing stars! It was an example of silliness and intended as a joke...

Noserenda
13-03-2007, 19:54
gah, the throwing weapons thing is crazy, ive seena marine accidentally (missed attack) throw a grenade clean through an acro flagellants leg...

They do however make excellent and terrifying adversaries, the last few games of our Subversives type campaign had marines leading counter terrorism operations against half the players... Watch em run! Well, except the Alpha Legion operative, but then thats to be expected :chrome:

Sabbad
13-03-2007, 21:06
If you're looking for a GM-controlled character to scare PCs with, a Thousand Sons Chaos Space Marine is a good one to go with. That way players are under no illusions that they have NO chance of killing him, but because he's slow he's easy for them to avoid and distract whilst they go about achieving their missions.

thorgrim
15-03-2007, 01:17
I have to say although i do love the marines in inquisitor i rarely get a chance to play against them. As most campaigns that i play in marines are banned for use in warbands. Probably due to the fact that the marine can cause more damage by hitting a player with a grenade then the grenade actually going off.

To those who would like a surefire way of taking a marine down i recommend taking a vindicare/sniper and shooting him in the face (yep the last one i faced didn't have a helmet)

Catferret
15-03-2007, 03:07
Killing Marines? Throw a Frag at them so they fall over then use a handy nearby crane to drop a pile of girders on them while they're on their back (like in Robocop), then strap a Meltabomb to his head and pray you don't roll a 1...

precinctomega
15-03-2007, 09:32
Ah, the old "how to kill a Space Marine" question. Well, there are no shortage of possible methods but, as a regular GM, I have to say that there's only one, true way to kill a Space Marine and that's with style and imagination.

R.

Lord Inquisitor
15-03-2007, 15:29
I once had a player blow a Chaos Space Marine's arm off by booby-trapping the box containing the sacred artefact with a melta-bomb and just handing it over...

Bubble Ghost
15-03-2007, 17:17
Ah, the old "how to kill a Space Marine" question. Well, there are no shortage of possible methods but, as a regular GM, I have to say that there's only one, true way to kill a Space Marine and that's with style and imagination.

R.

Absolutely.

I find the usual problem is accommodating marine players, rather than marines themselves. They present a massive headache in terms of trying to keep everyone happy. If someone's warband has a marine in it, they want the marine to be storming round killing everything, and often seem feel cheated - rightly or wrongly - if the marine is prevented by some "unrealistic" GM contrivance from doing so. While it's a little unfair of them to expect to win easily all the time, it's an attitude I do have a little sympathy with, because that's what marines are for and what attracts people to them. Meanwhile everyone else gets bored if their warbands keep getting pasted by Mr. Marine.

Back when I used to GM a lot, I would run a lot of scenarios with one player's warband versus NPCs, and I've found that's good way to handle marines. You force the marine to do something different in most player vs. player games, and meanwhile vent the player's lust for marine-dispensed death on player vs. NPCs scenarios (and let's be honest, it would be deeply unsatisfying for everyone if the marine didn't get to fulfil his basic function occasionally). That's almost the best of both worlds - and eventually, the guy with the marine will come to see the merits of playing with a bit more depth without having made everyone else miserable first.

Decius
16-03-2007, 07:18
In my Inquisitor games, I downgraded the stats of marines a little (mainly S and T), making a marine puch less deadly than a bolt round to the gut. Also, I upped the damage of the "classy" weapons to more apropriate levels. A plasma pistol, for example, does 4d10+10 damage while a lascannon is more of an "instant kill or narrative wound" deal. I fiddled with some other weapons too but not as significantly as those. This way, plasmaguns and lascannons would scare marines as much as anyone else. Besides, I run my Inquisitor games a lot like a D&D game, so I'm ultimately in control of the number of marines, if any.

precinctomega
16-03-2007, 09:07
Wise words there from Bubble Ghost, if I may say so.

R.

Catferret
17-03-2007, 05:45
Wise words there from Bubble Ghost, if I may say so.

R.

Wise shmise! Hit 'em with a crane! Lol!

Yeah, BG is right. GM suggestions are the way forward. Inquisitor is about awesome story telling. One of my characters lost a leg purely to advance the story. Anything is possible if you think of the game as a book unfolding before you. Nothing is bad for your character either if the player is wrapped up in the plot.

That is why Inquisitor gets my vote as Favourite GW Game.

Jackster
22-03-2007, 05:12
??? Why not just have space marines on both side? with some lesser characters there (more numerous) for them to kill.
Or even some kind of CSM vs SM game?
Hey that sounds really fun, maybe i ll do it this week!

Decius
22-03-2007, 06:32
I'm starting to feel a little guilty here because marines are becoming more and more common in the games I GM. Then again, not only are they modified marines (S & T around 150ish), but I control them, not the players. In the current campaign I have going, I actually had my players taken aboard a chaos marine battleship. Even though my players are also devoted to chaos, they didn't feel safe. :p

I hope you guys don't get too mad, marines being bad and all, but my campaign should end with them becoming chaos marines. I even have them working on their initiation right now: trying to steal a cache of gene seed from an Inquisitor with an entourage of three loyal marines. With a bit of cleverness and help from the dark powers I think they'll do it. Or they'll die. Oh well. :D

I just loved the moment when the first marine showed up. The look an their faces when they thought they were going to die. I should stop right there, I'll just end up re-telling the whole campaign. :D

Edit: Odd, that's the first time I ended every paragraph with a smiley.

Dyrnwyn
22-03-2007, 06:43
??? Why not just have space marines on both side? with some lesser characters there (more numerous) for them to kill.
Or even some kind of CSM vs SM game?
Hey that sounds really fun, maybe i ll do it this week!

There are two problems with simply making in Marine v. Marine. First off, a Space Marine doesn't always fit into the fluff of certain warbands. My Inquisitor is a radical who thinks that the Imperium needs to rid itself of the secretive Adeptus Mechanicus so that it can advance as fast as the Tau are. He uses alot of xenos tech and tries to distance himself from warpcraft of any kind. He is neither a psyker nor a chaos devotee of any kind, so he would not be trucking with a Chaos Marine. He's also radical enough that a loyalist Space Marines would not be traipsing around with him. Secondly, not everyone owns a Marine or Chaos Marine model. And I certainly would not be happy if I was told to buy one so I could balance off someone else who had one.

And there are problems with having alot of lesser characters dogpiling on the Marine. With Power Armor and an average Toughness of 145, a Marine will recover at least 10 off his injury total + one level of damage, every turn. which means nickel & diming him is going to be very difficult with warbands that have lasguns, autoguns and stubbers to do damage. Granted, there are those that have more high powered bands, but anything that can't reliably do more than 10 damage is going to make it hard to down a Marine, even if you have 10 of them.

Lord Inquisitor
22-03-2007, 16:23
I'm starting to feel a little guilty here because...
I hope you guys don't get too mad, marines being bad and all...
No, no, no! Don't feel guilty. You are doing exactly what you SHOULD do with Space Marines. Marines aren't bad, they are simply bad for the game if used without imagination.


I just loved the moment when the first marine showed up. The look an their faces when they thought they were going to die.
That look on the players' faces is what GMing is all about.

As long as the story is cool, use as many Space Marines as you need. If there's a reason for them being there, then great! I've run a campaign that culminated in a full-scale Black Legion invasion and counter-invasion by Blood Angels. I find that when the players are so far out of their martial league that a full-frontal assault is suicide, they get so much more imaginative!

Your campaign sounds like it would be great fun, and it also sounds to me that you are using Marines exactly the way they should be used.

(Incidentally, if you are interested in some expanded rules for Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines, - and you are tweaking the Marine stats already - have a look at this: http://www.geocities.com/eoinwhelan/, you might find these rules useful for your campaign - especially for the "initiation", as you can add rules for each individual gene-seed as it is implanted. There's a new version in the pipeline, let me know if you want to know more.)

inq.serge
22-03-2007, 17:31
How much damage does space marine spit do?

Lord Inquisitor
22-03-2007, 18:01
As per the exotic ability Spit Acid, p54 of the Inquisitor online rulebook. (Basically, D6+(S/20) damage)

inq.serge
22-03-2007, 18:17
(Fast calculation)

Oh, an adeptus astartes can spit of my head.

Sabbad
22-03-2007, 21:18
(Fast calculation)

Oh, an adeptus astartes can spit of my head.


LOL! That is rather amusing...

Decius
24-03-2007, 02:19
There's a new version in the pipeline, let me know if you want to know more.)

Well, you've piqued my curiosity now. You want to PM me or e-mail me some things?

Gre'setal
29-03-2007, 18:02
Hi

Space Marines...interesting topic...no for me, me and my frineds like to have games without them or games where we pick on a space marine. Its a walking tank and to often kills someone, and since we have a long series of games going, a space marine, as an NPC kills to many guys or kill to many squishy enemies if he is on our side. So we tend to avoid them...always:D .

Oli

Sarison
28-04-2007, 01:35
As backup, as an npc, or outnumbered. it the only way to fly.

<\2 cents>

Bretagne
28-04-2007, 01:49
i think they should have the gauntlet arena match, like in Ratchet and Clank, where one space marine takes on legions of foes round after round for fabulous prizes!!!!!

or when people say they want to play as a space marine, we point and laugh and say no.