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Doctor Thunder
09-02-2007, 05:41
Edit:
I've had a few requests from people who wanted to see some pictures of the models fully assembled and painted before they decided whether or not they wanted to join the club and get some for themselves, so I painted some up for all to see. I'm not the best painter in the world, but I think you'll still enjoy seeing how this project has gone from concept to reality.
Just click on a thumbnail to see the full pic. :)

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Imperialgirls001.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Imperialgirls001.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Imperialgirls002.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Imperialgirls002.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Imperialgirls003.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Imperialgirls003.jpg)



It occured to me yesterday that those of us who want our cadian armies to be fluffy and contain both genders intead of just one don't have to wait around for to see if GW or forgeworld might eventually decide to release something in a decade or so. We can make it happen ourselves. With the pooled resources, we would have enough to hire a professional sculptor to make a torso and a couple sets of legs entirely out of greenstuff. (In fact, I've already got someone lined up) Since the parts are made out of greenstuff, they can be cast without breaking any rules, and everyone who donated to the project would get enough parts for their needs.
Even if we only had 3 or 4 people, that would still be enough to make a torso and cast it.

So, I'm looking to see if there are any players out there who would like to seriously make this happen.

The Dude
09-02-2007, 05:52
I don't see the torsos as the problem so much as the faces. The chest-plate of the armour could be hiding virtually anything, particularly if they are very lean and fit women ;), but the faces are all too masculine.

Doctor Thunder
09-02-2007, 06:07
the faces are all too masculine.

I agree, fortunately heads are really easy to do. You can order mordheim amazon heads as seperate bits on their own sprue. Put helmets on them and you're done. Heck, there's even an empty helmet bit on the cadian sprues and tank sprues so you don't even have to bore them out.

However, if the people who want to get in on this want a head too, I'm sure we could get the sculptor to make one as well.:D

scrubout
09-02-2007, 06:12
Ya, to be quite honest Doctor Thunder...as much as I like women in body armor with 'curves'...*drifts into fantasy of girlfriend sporting curvy cadian flak armour*...*ahem*...I highly doubt that the 'total war' nature of cadia would devote time to making special armor for the ladies.

I also echo the comment about lean girls.

I also feel women would shave their hair down too. I just realized I'm gonna do that with my Grenadiers now. Thanks for inadvertently inspring my thinker!

-peace out
scrubout:skull:

insaniak
09-02-2007, 06:54
There's a couple of small problems with this idea...

For one, just using female torsos with Cadian legs and arms is going to look odd. There's more than just a torso's worth of difference between male and female bodies... Having legs and hips the right shape goes as far towards making a model look female as just swapping a torso.

For two, for them to match the males, they would need the same style armour as the males. So you start running into IP issues on two counts: the first being that you're reproducing something that is copied off a GW design, and the second being that you're producing 3rd-party parts for GW miniatures... both of which the GW legal department tend to frown on.


As a small-scale project for yourself, you would probably be fine. As any sort of a commercial project, or for intended production to a large group of people, you're treading on shaky ground.



Not trying to put a damper on things, just thought it was worth pointing out the potential problems before things go too far...

Nostro
09-02-2007, 06:55
That and breastplates GW makes are actually oversized. Cadia arnour will do ok. Current soldier women wear regular kevlar jackets...

Lancaster
09-02-2007, 07:00
Interesting initiative, maybe if thid works, Warseer could have the infrastructure to have entire armies of online generated guard variants

demicanadian
09-02-2007, 07:58
Maybe you can take bits from other GW stuff... like Wood Elf Glade Guards for a Tanith army, for instance, or some kind of Cadian light infantry (i.e. not just Shock Troopers... maybe the Cadians have an elite Scout/Ranger corps, or as part of a Command unit).

Fitting Cadian arms onto Glade Guards... it takes modifications to fit Eldar Guardians & Wood Elves together, so I'm guessing that the Cadian stuff will need a lot of work to go with Wood Elf plastics.

xibo
09-02-2007, 08:13
Fitting Cadian arms onto Glade Guards... it takes modifications to fit Eldar Guardians & Wood Elves together, so I'm guessing that the Cadian stuff will need a lot of work to go with Wood Elf plastics.
Yes, it will. I tried to make cameoline vets out of wood elves, and it was pain.
Ontopic: I don't think you really need to rework the torsos, unless you're going to rework the torsos for male cadians, too, as those are equally misproportioned.
I think if you make caidan female soldiers you should also do children ones... 'every 6 year old cadian can hit a human sized target 200m away with a lasgun'/'cadians learn how to maintain their weapons even before learning to read'... it should be obvious that cadian conscipts should look different to soldiers...

Bregalad
09-02-2007, 08:48
With the pooled resources, we would have enough to hire a professional sculptor to make a torso and a couple sets of legs entirely out of greenstuff.

Or you can just buy the existing female torso and two heads from Tin Bits ( http://www.tinsbits.com/webshop/index.php?cPath=7 ), costing 1.50 Euro per set.

See also this thread, where I posted more alternatives for female guard minis:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68322

Shasolenzabi
09-02-2007, 10:38
[[[ Yeah, Once a female soldier who is lean and fit gears up, only their face and voice allows their femininity to show at all. add camo, and it gets harder to tell.

Angelus Mortis
09-02-2007, 11:06
[[[ They were not allowed to get preggers in my day.And that should be the standard today IMHO. Personnal issues that can be avoided should not be used as an excuse to avoid duty. Unavoidable ones(divorce/death of a spouse w/children, serious illness, etc would be totally acceptable, but not I got knocked up, whoops sorry!)

On topic, I've never really been fond of female Cadians however. My reasoning is totally fluff though. The vast majority of Cadia is under arms(I believe it was like 70% or something like that, dont have Codex at the moment) do to proximity to the Eye of Terror. From a purely military standpoint, the only way to mantain such high recruitment levels would require you to have lots of babies(which you cant do by default if your in the military), extend service length and lower entry age as well as lower standards of fitness. This would mean basically it was a females civil duty to spit out kids for the Emperor. So unless they are cloning them(which doesn't fit the fluff at all) then they couldn't justify using them as soldiers when they are much more valuable in replacing those soldiers.

That being said, I have no problem with other worlds having female IG. My reasoning is fluff related also. Since they are not under constant threat of invasion in the same way as Cadia, much less of the population is under arms so you could see more females in their ranks. Heck, you could even see entire regiments of females if they are into segregation by sex. But thats just my opinion, take it for what its worth.

Doctor Thunder
09-02-2007, 14:52
Here's the concept art, originally drawn by The Green Witch on 40K online:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/femaleplasma.jpg

The sculptor used to sculpt for Cell Emtertainment, which was responsable for such things as Krash, Ronin, 1999, Hybrid, and some others.
Here's a link to some of his work on CMON. Obviously, this example is a lot bustier then what we would want for a female cadian, but I think it shows that he has the skills to pull this off.

Sample (http://www.coolminiornot.com/70579)

Captain Micha
09-02-2007, 15:02
I kinda care / kinda not.. I mean on the one hand cadia's breeding program would not permit female soldiers.. the birth rate and enlistment rate being synomous and all. On the other.. said birthrate is synomous.... *L* maybe they take certain women away from active service to use as breed stock

xibo
09-02-2007, 15:06
Cool Image. She even got the Kasakin armour, though certain pieces are far smaller than regular Kasakin's ones - but I hated the oversized shoulderplates anyway. Just some GS on the chest to make the armour equal to her male comrades one's and some more to make the trousers end deeper and voila...
The head is too big(same size as usually with helmet) but we're used to that already :D

Sai-Lauren
09-02-2007, 16:42
The IP issue was my main thought about it.

IMO, the best alternative is asking Forgeworld - if they get a lot of people asking for it, chances are they'll do it.

Nice sketch though.


From a purely military standpoint, the only way to mantain such high recruitment levels would require you to have lots of babies(which you cant do by default if your in the military), extend service length and lower entry age as well as lower standards of fitness. This would mean basically it was a females civil duty to spit out kids for the Emperor.
I don't know, the Squats used to have some fluff that they had to have parented two children to adulthood before joining their military - thus ensuring the continuation of their race, so I can't see it being too difficult for Cadian women to basically take a period of maternity leave between leaving the Whiteshield units and becoming guardswomen (so mid-late teens) and possibly at least one later on in their careers (late 20s - mid 30s, possibly later with the generally increased life spans) - their families or the regiment take care of the children until they're old enough to enter the Whiteshield units themselves, and the regimental surgeon would probably pick two people who're unlikely to carry any hereditary conditions for that particular duty.

I mean, being ordered to sleep with someone may be a bit abhorent to us, but considering Cadia is basically one big military camp, I doubt it would be to them - they could even use something like IVF to increase the pregnancy rate and prevent emotional bonds being formed (either positive or negative).

The women can still serve in non-combat roles during and immediatley after their pregnancy, in fact some roles could be permenantly unassigned, with a succession of people moving through it before they get medically cleared, take a short refresher course (mostly PT to rebuild muscle tone lost in the last few weeks of pregnancy when they've been less mobile) and move back to their units.

Although, with their generally smaller frames, I would have put most of Cadia's women-at-arms as being tank crews and similar roles.

Doctor Thunder
09-02-2007, 16:54
IMO, the best alternative is asking Forgeworld - if they get a lot of people asking for it, chances are they'll do it.
Already tried that. They said no. If we want it to happen we'll have to do it ourselves.

Dread Lime
09-02-2007, 17:17
I agree, fortunately heads are really easy to do. You can order mordheim amazon heads as seperate bits on their own sprue. Put helmets on them and you're done. Heck, there's even an empty helmet bit on the cadian sprues and tank sprues so you don't even have to bore them out.

However, if the people who want to get in on this want a head too, I'm sure we could get the sculptor to make one as well.:D

The helmets are pretty shallow, so a bit of drilling is still neccesary to get the helmet to sit correctly.

Vaktathi
09-02-2007, 17:23
Sounds like an interesting idea, but I think the normal Cadian torso's may be a bit too wide, making a new torso and head rather than just head would probably be best (women typically dont have the huge wide shoulders of the Cadian plastic IG)

If this goes down, it'll be cool to see how it turns out.

Feor
09-02-2007, 17:24
I'm of the opinion that the only thing needed for this is a set of "softer" heads. In armour and camo one soldiers gonna look pretty much identicle to any other, wether they have breasts or not. (hell, just in regular camo uniforms you have to get fairly close to tell the difference, and I see large numbers of soldiers on a weekly basis) The only thing making cadian models look male are the heads. If I wanted an all female Guard unit I'd just put Kasrkin heads on them and call them female.

Also, as has been said, if you pay someone to make you a "female cadian" you're starting to look at legal copywrite issues.

Stella Cadente
09-02-2007, 17:40
http://www.hasslefreeminiatures.co.uk/range.php?range_id=39&subcat_id=16&PHPSESSID=d17190016d825101afa7076f2976faf5

How about these?, they could be useful, I guess lol.

xibo
09-02-2007, 18:21
Also, as has been said, if you pay someone to make you a "female cadian" you're starting to look at legal copywrite issues.

Then how about giving someone concepts you made by yourself and have him make you a sculpt of it? It also would fix other things you don't like about Cadians ( I for example hate the huge shoulderpads and usualy cut&file them off, or the winged skulls could become real aquillas, or ... )
...tadaa-m, copyright problem solved.

guillimansknight
09-02-2007, 18:41
And that should be the standard today IMHO. Personnal issues that can be avoided should not be used as an excuse to avoid duty. Unavoidable ones(divorce/death of a spouse w/children, serious illness, etc would be totally acceptable, but not I got knocked up, whoops sorry!)

On topic, I've never really been fond of female Cadians however. My reasoning is totally fluff though. The vast majority of Cadia is under arms(I believe it was like 70% or something like that, dont have Codex at the moment) do to proximity to the Eye of Terror. From a purely military standpoint, the only way to mantain such high recruitment levels would require you to have lots of babies(which you cant do by default if your in the military), extend service length and lower entry age as well as lower standards of fitness. This would mean basically it was a females civil duty to spit out kids for the Emperor. So unless they are cloning them(which doesn't fit the fluff at all) then they couldn't justify using them as soldiers when they are much more valuable in replacing those soldiers.

That being said, I have no problem with other worlds having female IG. My reasoning is fluff related also. Since they are not under constant threat of invasion in the same way as Cadia, much less of the population is under arms so you could see more females in their ranks. Heck, you could even see entire regiments of females if they are into segregation by sex. But thats just my opinion, take it for what its worth.


i read somewhere that cadians are geneticly changed in order to have more male births because males are better candicates for genetic modification because they dont have the risk factor of damaging kids

swordwind
09-02-2007, 19:10
Or you can just buy the existing female torso and two heads from Tin Bits ( http://www.tinsbits.com/webshop/index.php?cPath=7 ), costing 1.50 Euro per set.

See also this thread, where I posted more alternatives for female guard minis:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68322

Quoting this in the vain hope someone will pay attention to it.

Bregalad
09-02-2007, 19:51
Thanks for the effort, swordwind :)
Perhaps some pics will catch their attention:

xibo
09-02-2007, 19:55
Now that you make me look at it... I finally notice the Virdian Sniper is a woman :D

MrBigMr
09-02-2007, 20:13
Now that you make me look at it... I finally notice the Virdian Sniper is a woman :D
So you never noticed that she had boobs?

So far my IGs will have only one female trooper, and even she'll be a part of my Kroots. If the name Machiko Noguchi says anything, I don't have to explain anything.
I'll be adding more female troops in time, as the army is an equal opportunity force.

Bregalad
09-02-2007, 20:47
I took the woman sniper from the first pic (Wamachine Khador Widowmakers) as sergeant for my WH Inquisition guard made of Vostroyans.
The rest are some pics from Shadowforge Special Ops (http://www.shadowforge.com.au ->SciFi) and Infinity (http://www.corvusbelli.com/en/02_tiendainf.asp):

swordwind
09-02-2007, 21:10
The female Viridian Officers would make a good Commisar. http://www.urbanmammoth.co.uk/acatalog/13105.jpg http://www.urbanmammoth.co.uk/acatalog/13119.jpg

Doctor Thunder
10-02-2007, 00:16
Okay, guys, let's get back on topic. Is there anyone on this board who wants to get on board this project?

TCUTTER
10-02-2007, 00:57
the thing people often forget is that the game we play is ultra violent, and women in sci fi rarely ever die, but if you start making huge amounts, then it wont be long til parents complain about the fact women are being pitted against khorne bezerkers or what not, gw are gradually becoming a very family orrientated company...its not going to happen for a long time if ever

Ivan Stupidor
10-02-2007, 00:59
the thing people often forget is that the game we play is ultra violent, and women in sci fi rarely ever die, but if you start making huge amounts, then it wont be long til parents complain about the fact women are being pitted against khorne bezerkers or what not, gw are gradually becoming a very family orrientated company...its not going to happen for a long time if ever



Your argument would hold more weight if not for the fact that there's an entire army in the game made up exclusively of women.

TCUTTER
10-02-2007, 01:07
how many people play sisters, compared to the space marines there a blip on the radar. and im suddenly very aware of that fault, still it stands to reason thats why theres no guard women as well, why not just play sisters i bet is gws thinking

swordwind
10-02-2007, 01:24
Ripley dies in Alien 3. Dizzy dies in Starship Troopers. The pregnant clone dies in The Island. Toni dies in Red Dawn. Lots of females die in war and scifi films.

Ivan Stupidor
10-02-2007, 03:03
how many people play sisters, compared to the space marines there a blip on the radar. and im suddenly very aware of that fault, still it stands to reason thats why theres no guard women as well, why not just play sisters i bet is gws thinking

Sisters are much more visible than any "female Cadian" blister or sprue bit would be. If GW was so concerned with some hypothetical group getting up in arms about female models in tabletop wars, I highly doubt that they would have released new Sisters troops when they re-did Witch Hunters, or female Inquisitors, or the female Grenade Launcher Catachan that seems to have been bouncing in and out of normal Catachan Special Weapon blisters these past few years.

Bregalad
10-02-2007, 08:37
the thing people often forget is that the game we play is ultra violent, and women in sci fi rarely ever die, but if you start making huge amounts, then it wont be long til parents complain about the fact women are being pitted against khorne bezerkers or what not, gw are gradually becoming a very family orrientated company...its not going to happen for a long time if ever

Have you ever read a C.S.Goto novel? Then you know that GW is fine with torturing (Eldar) women for 200 pages and presenting child molesters. So much for family orientation.


Okay, guys, let's get back on topic. Is there anyone on this board who wants to get on board this project?

You give us repeatedly the impression that there are no parts available for converting Cadians to being female. So proving that these parts (plus female Catachans, Commissars, snipers, ...) are already available is NOT off topic.

t-tauri
10-02-2007, 13:15
Let's stay away from women in Iraq or the thread will be off to Politics and religion. Let's stay away from Anime fantasyland or the thread will be removed. A number of posts have been deleted.

t-tauri

The Warseer Inquisition

Gen.Steiner
10-02-2007, 14:14
Or you can just buy the existing female torso and two heads from Tin Bits ( http://www.tinsbits.com/webshop/index.php?cPath=7 ), costing 1.50 Euro per set.

Which is what I've done/am doing.

It's a good idea, and I wish you lot all the best, but in the absence of FW stuff I am plumping for Tin Bits' stuff instead.

Doctor Thunder
12-02-2007, 21:04
Just wanted everyone to know that we have enough people on board and the project is a-go. The instructions have been sent to the sculptor and sculpting will begin shortly. The deadline for anyone else who wants to get onboard is February 26th. PM me if interested.

Reabe
12-02-2007, 21:27
Dizzy dies in Starship Troopers.

Dizzy was a guy in the book, so it may not count. :chrome:

xibo
12-02-2007, 21:30
Do you have any more concepts? Is it gonna be the heads, or complete models? In second case just Kasakins or Guardsmen/Shock Trooper too? And how much is the sculpter going to charge? $40?
How many different sculpts is he going to make? And how many copies can everyone get of each sculpt?

This are rather general questions, so I'm posting rather than PMing you.

swordwind
12-02-2007, 22:01
Dizzy was a guy in the book, so it may not count. :chrome:

I am well aware that Dizzy was a guy. Even so far as posting this (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120201/board/thread/65132060?d=65736126#65736126) little jem on IMDB :D

Doctor Thunder
13-02-2007, 00:56
Is it gonna be the heads, or complete models? In second case just Kasakins or Guardsmen/Shock Trooper too? And how many copies can everyone get of each sculpt?

A set will include a torso and two heads, one with goggles like in the sketch, and another designed so that you can put the empty helmet right onto it. Each person will get 25-30 sets, depending on how many people join in. If we get a few more people, we might have the money to do additional parts, like extra heads or maybe some legs or something.
Even though the sketch is of a kasrkin, the sculpts will be for basic troopers.

Gen.Steiner
13-02-2007, 01:40
To hell with it, I'm in. :p

greenmtvince
13-02-2007, 03:14
I'm in too. PM sent.

If these turn out nice, I may have to ask about getting him to do female Elysians.

Rapid Fires Plasma:
[dice0]

Doctor Thunder
13-02-2007, 14:34
If these turn out nice, I may have to ask about getting him to do female Elysians.
[dice0]


That would be cool. I'll keep that in mind for later. :D

Doctor Thunder
13-02-2007, 21:48
I am well aware that Dizzy was a guy. Even so far as posting this (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120201/board/thread/65132060?d=65736126#65736126) little jem on IMDB :D

I think the link is bad, I can't see it.:cries:

Doctor Thunder
15-02-2007, 13:03
I thought everyone would like to know that the IP issue has been resolved.

Kugelblitz, one of the people who has joined in the project, has known one of the GW VP's for many years, and he spoke to him about the project and we have been given the green light. His reasons: Small scale production, not for sale afterwards, not for profit, no GW parts being cast, private group, no harm, no foul.

So, the IP issue is a non-issue. There's no further need to talk about it. Anyone who was reluctant to get on board because of that no longer has any reason to hesitate. There are still eleven days left to join in before the deadline, let's have some more people join up. :)

Apologist
15-02-2007, 13:12
Ouch – poor MtVince: looks like you need a signum there, solider!

I was initially a little hesitant about putting my money into this, but I like the idea so much that I wanted to show my support, so I've sent the good Doctor my share. :)

Roll on diversity!

InquisitorPalpatine
15-02-2007, 19:37
I'm interested in this, I'm sending you a PM Doctor Thunder to get more info. I'm wanting to make a female Cadian style sniper squad to count as a ratling squad, so this is something I've been looking for.

Permanganate
15-02-2007, 19:52
I'd be interested in seeing pictures, as I don't see much reason to sign up without knowing what I would be getting.

Doctor Thunder
15-02-2007, 20:04
I can understand that, that's why I looked long and hard for a sculptor who I felt would do a great job.

Unfortunately, we won't be selling these afterwards, so the only way to get any is to get in on the project now. I can't show you the sculpts until after they're sculpted, and I can't have them sculpted until we have the money to pay for them to be sculpted by having enough people join in on the project.

If we can get just a couple more people, we'll have enough to expand the project and do legs and more varient heads as well as the torso and heads already outlined.

The Song of Spears
15-02-2007, 22:52
I dunno if this has been brought up yet or not, but just for those sitting on the edge because of fluff reasons. In my "Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer", in Warmaster Salydo Sabbat Worlds speech, he addressed the "Men and Women of the Imperial Guard." This happens several times over the course of the Primer.

Sounds like canon to me....

Apologist
27-02-2007, 16:23
With the deadline reached, any chance of an update?

Doctor Thunder
28-02-2007, 15:36
With the deadline reached, any chance of an update?

I sent out a big email update yesterday to everyone who joined on on the project (more then 50 people in all!)

In case you didn't get it, I'll pm it to you as well. :)

Badgertronic
28-02-2007, 19:10
ill join....
pming now

Doctor Thunder
21-03-2007, 05:20
I've had some requests for these, so I'm posting these great work in progress pictures from the sculptor:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/WIPPics.jpg
I'm very pleased with how things are coming along. There are still a few things that need to be done. The lower part of the cadian jacket (the skirt-like thingy) needs to be added in, some ruffles added to the back of the legs, and I've asked the sculptor to move the pockets to the sides of the legs and copy the pocket pattern on the male cadian legs. Oh, and the back of the torso needs the little square knob-thingy put onto it, and the torso needs a small eagle symbol put on it, like this:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/Eagle.jpg

Vaktathi
21-03-2007, 05:25
sweet, looks pretty cool so far.

dr.oetk3r
21-03-2007, 05:29
Oooh, very nice

Light of the Emperor
21-03-2007, 05:47
Darn! Had I known they'd be that good, I would've gotten in on it all...and I don't even play cadians. It'd sure make for a nice vostroyan conversion...

Stella Cadente
21-03-2007, 06:06
I'd love to get my hands on a pair of them.....................wait no that sounds wrong

Gen.Steiner
21-03-2007, 18:06
Pity I had no dosh otherwise I'd've flung my money in like I said I would've. Ah well, next time. :)

I say 'next time' because there will be a next time... :evilgrin:

Oh - by the way - the boots need their armoured ankle-guard/gaiter putting in place, at the moment they look like they've got buckles instead.

El Presedente
21-03-2007, 19:15
Pretty nice, I'd throw my chips in too, but y'know, I'm a cheapskate.

Sonofgabe
21-03-2007, 20:07
God, that's really cool. I wish i'd seen this thread back in February. Makes me wonder what other projects could be done this way, like Mk1 marines, heresy-era terminators, additional sisters of battle, the list is endless ....

AlphaLegion
21-03-2007, 20:35
It gave me alot of ideas for making my own character.

Doctor Thunder
04-04-2007, 19:12
Got a big update for everyone. One pair of legs, the torso, and two of the heads are 100% done, which means that we've only got two more heads and two more pairs of legs to go and then the sculpting is done.

I'm also happy to announce that we are opening the doors again for people who want some but missed the deadline. Anyone who is interested just send me a PM and I'll give you the details.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/body_changes-s.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/heads-s.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/montage-s.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/montage2-s.jpg
P.S. the helmet and arms have just been temporarily put on for the picture so people can see what they would look like assembled.

Kegluneq
04-04-2007, 20:34
So the figures are keeping the big beefy arms? A bit of a pity if that were the case, the rest of the mod work is extremely professional looking.

The second head model is awesome, not sure how 'Cadian' the first is though :/

RavenMorpheus
04-04-2007, 20:48
I wouldn't bother doing a conversion I'd just put some lipstick on some basic cadian models, most military women look like blokes anyway and the cadians all wear helmets so you wouldn't be able to tell the difference lol :-)

Doctor Thunder
04-04-2007, 20:49
So the figures are keeping the big beefy arms? A bit of a pity if that were the case, the rest of the mod work is extremely professional looking. :/
The sleeves are baggy, but luckily they are also plastic, so it's really easy to trim them down to taste. :)

Doctor Thunder
04-04-2007, 20:52
I wouldn't bother doing a conversion I'd just put some lipstick on some basic cadian models

That would look terrible. It would look like a drag queen, not a female cadian.

Kegluneq
04-04-2007, 20:55
Doctor Thunder: True, but it does seem to be a bit of a waste- buying great models, then having to green stuff the bits that don't fit. :/

RavenMorpheus
04-04-2007, 20:57
That would look terrible. It would look like a drag queen, not a female cadian.

What's the diff? Like I said most military women look like blokes anyway. You usually only get loads of hot military babes in films.

I suppose you could do a head swap and put Sisters of Battle heads on them? And some green stuff on the chest for the necessary anatomical correctness.

Doctor Thunder
04-04-2007, 21:52
I suppose you could do a head swap and put Sisters of Battle heads on them? And some green stuff on the chest for the necessary anatomical correctness.

Sisters of battle models are $4.50 a piece. That's a lot of money for just a head, and it would be hell trying to hack it off without destroying it. Plus, you can't just sculpt breasts onto a male cadian. Females have many differences in skeletal structure that the human eye instinctivly looks for, and if you don't incorporate those structural differences, it will just look like a man with breasts, not a female.

Ivan Stupidor
04-04-2007, 21:53
The torso and helmeted head look fine to me, but I don't really like the legs - the jacket is too short (compare with the standard Cadian in the side-by-size picture), and the pants are too tight; they shouldn't be riding up in the back like that! Of course, extending the jacket to be level with the crotch (as on the standard Cadian) would solve both problems...

Actually (although it's a little far on in the sculpting process to ask this), did you consider only sculpting torsos and heads? To me, those seem to be the only two things on the models that really need to be changed to make a female soldier.

Kegluneq
04-04-2007, 22:01
The legs help identify the model as female when viewed at a distance, especially if the figure is holding a lasgun across the chest and is wearing a helmet. It's a little too stylistically female perhaps (cute buns...?) but it's very well modelled and within the bounds of what I'd consider acceptable in 40k art.

I'd certainly like to see the finished model, with the second head on, some time soon :D

AlphaLegion
04-04-2007, 23:24
Its looking good, but the arms, there as large as her body, that should that the manlyness out of the ladys, so you could be dreaming of there ass while there kicking ass.

RavenMorpheus
05-04-2007, 00:30
Sisters of battle models are $4.50 a piece. That's a lot of money for just a head, and it would be hell trying to hack it off without destroying it. Plus, you can't just sculpt breasts onto a male cadian. Females have many differences in skeletal structure that the human eye instinctivly looks for, and if you don't incorporate those structural differences, it will just look like a man with breasts, not a female.

Well get GW to do some female models then, if you look at most people in combats/armour they look roughly the same in shape whether they're male or female so it wouldn't really matter on a model, the only reason Sisters of Battle and the other female GW models look like women is because all their armour is sculpted to accentuate their bits (butt, hips, boobs etc), GW are a bunch of pervs in that way if you ask me - take a look at the daemonettes and witch elves and tell me I'm wrong.

Take a look at Rachel Weisz in the film Enemy at the gates, body wise apart from the obvious bits upfront you wouldn't take her for being a woman because she's dressed like the blokes.

If a woman was in the Guard they'd dress just like a bloke and look pretty much like a bloke - besides Guard are women anyway, they run at the first sight of a fight, until a Commissar points out they're gonna get shot anyway.

BTW is there a link for the pics of these models that everyone is commenting on I don't seem to be able to see the pics or any links to them? I'd really like to have a look. Edit: the pics are there, they're just not being displayed, my net browser won't display them.

JMMelo
05-04-2007, 01:01
Thatīs a REALLY nice ass (well, for a miniature, anyway ;) ), very Kevin White (from Hasslefree Miniatures) in style... I like that... My only sugestions would be trying to cover the bums a bit with the back of the jacket (too distractive in a war zone) and give the ladies some necks... the heads look a bit sunk in the shoulders

Ivan Stupidor
05-04-2007, 02:07
The legs help identify the model as female when viewed at a distance, especially if the figure is holding a lasgun across the chest and is wearing a helmet. It's a little too stylistically female perhaps (cute buns...?) but it's very well modelled and within the bounds of what I'd consider acceptable in 40k art.

It looks female, yes, but it's supposed to be a female Cadian. Cadian infantry have a distinct uniform, and this model is wearing something that is similar, but not quite, Cadian. It falls into the Uncanny Valley for me - it's very close to Cadian, but it is distinctively not, and that throws off the entire model.

I'd also disagree with the assertion that you need the differences to tell that the model is female at a distance - the Eldar Guardians only have different chestplates, and I can still tell the two apart if I'm facing them.

New geekiest moment ever: arguing about Cadian jacket length.

RavenMorpheus
05-04-2007, 02:11
I'd also disagree with the assertion that you need the differences to tell that the model is female at a distance - the Eldar Guardians only have different chestplates, and I can still tell the two apart if I'm facing them.

New geekiest moment ever: arguing about Cadian jacket length.


Thank you, at least someone sees my point - any chance of a link to the pics, anyone, someone?

I can't actually see them, there's something wrong with my browser - I can see some pics by other people, the ones in the beginning of this thread that are made by a different company but not the one's that this thread is actually about. Help! I'd really like to see what these models look like.

Doctor Thunder
05-04-2007, 04:30
Well get GW to do some female models then.
We've tried that. Do you know how this whole project got started? It got started because, after a huge petition to GW and Forgeworld to make cadian females, we found out that one of their sculptors had actually made some in his free time and donated them to forgeworld so that they would get made, and they refused. They said that they would never make female cadians because they did not consider it to be 'proper,' whatever that means.

So, since GW and Forgeworld refused, I decided that we players could do it ourselves. And look, it's happening. :D

Hoping doesn't accomplish anything. Planning and hard work do.


BTW is there a link for the pics of these models that everyone is commenting on I don't seem to be able to see the pics or any links to them? I'd really like to have a look. Edit: the pics are there, they're just not being displayed, my net browser won't display them
Wait, so you've been posting all this time without actually having seen the models we're talking about? Why would you post before actually seeing the models we're talking about?

Here's some links so you can see them. :)

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/body_changes-s.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/heads-s.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/montage-s.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/montage2-s.jpg

RavenMorpheus
05-04-2007, 04:38
We've tried that. Do you know how this whole project got started? It got started because, after a huge petition to GW and Forgeworld to make cadian females, we found out that one of their sculptors had actually made some in his free time and donated them to forgeworld so that they would get made, and they refused. They said that they would never make female cadians because they did not consider it to be 'proper,' whatever that means.

So, since GW and Forgeworld refused, I decided that we players could do it ourselves. And look, it's happening. :D

Hoping doesn't accomplish anything. Planning and hard work do.


Wait, so you've been posting all this time without actually having seen the models we're talking about? Why would you post before actually seeing the models we're talking about?

Here's some links so you can see them. :)

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/body_changes-s.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/heads-s.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/montage-s.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/montage2-s.jpg

Erm yeah dude, I thought this was a request for advice on a conversion project, then I read the other posts and realised it wasn't.

I think what GW meant by "proper" is, we're not making them because it'd cost money and wouldn't get much money back. Personally I think they'd be wrong, but then how many Sisters of Battle armies do you see? Thanks for the links I'll see if I can get to look at them, I'm sitting behind a really stubborn firewall/security package that is a bit random when dealing with sites like imageshack and photobucket and others like them.

Lisiecki
06-04-2007, 04:29
http://www.grunt.com/images-bs/sdpi/martinez.jpg
http://images.military.com/pics/Leatherneck_Female_013105.jpg
http://www.funmansion.com/images/ChineseMilitaryWomen2.jpg

you know, back when i played IG, I assumed that the Squads were 50% men and 50% women, because a woman (from what ive seen) in combat gear, dosnt look all that diffrent from a man

MrBigMr
06-04-2007, 09:40
Have you been in the military with chicks? I have and I can say, the difference can be seen live. Those models should be little shorter than the normal cadian, because I've never seen a tall woman in the army. They're all so tiny there. You could just put one of them in your pocke and take home with you... We're getting off the subject.

Bregalad
06-04-2007, 09:59
If anyone prefers female Cadian models that look exactly like male Cadian models, why not just buy the existing Cadian models? What's the point?
This thread is for people who like a different look and alternative models. And I must say, that the models turned out much better than I thought, realism aside. Good job!
(and I can't read the word "bloke" anymore :rolleyes: )

Getz
06-04-2007, 13:02
Bluntly, it all in the hips...

The reason why a Cadian male model would look strange if you just stuck a female head on it is nothing to do with Breasts (which would be hidden pretty much completly by the armour) and everything to do with the hips.

Additionally, although it's not terribly easy to spot that some of those female soliders are women under all that gear, stand them next to a similarly equipped male soldier and they will stnd out...

Doctor Thunder
06-04-2007, 17:15
http://www.grunt.com/images-bs/sdpi/martinez.jpg
http://images.military.com/pics/Leatherneck_Female_013105.jpg
http://www.funmansion.com/images/ChineseMilitaryWomen2.jpg

you know, back when i played IG, I assumed that the Squads were 50% men and 50% women, because a woman (from what ive seen) in combat gear, dosnt look all that diffrent from a man
You thought those faces were female?

It's funny, I've seen this conversation about 10 times now on the different message boards I frequent. People who have never been in the military insist that "You can't tell with the gear on," and then people who have actually been in the military correct by saying, "Yes you can, you can tell from a mile away."



Those models should be little shorter than the normal cadian, because I've never seen a tall woman in the army.
Just to point it out to everybody who may not have noticed, we intentionally made the female cadian shorter. In fact, she's almost a half a head shorter then her male counterpart.

Gen.Steiner
06-04-2007, 21:24
Right. When I can scrape together the dosh, I will send you the relevant moolah and will then await my delivery with baited breath. :D These are ace - my only (extremely minor!) complaint is that they've got kneepads on. No matter - they can be... removed. :evilgrin:

Ace models, they really are!

Templar Ben
06-04-2007, 21:36
Right. When I can scrape together the dosh, I will send you the relevant moolah and will then await my delivery with baited breath. :D These are ace - my only (extremely minor!) complaint is that they've got kneepads on. No matter - they can be... removed. :evilgrin:

Ace models, they really are!

I saw them and said "Sweet, my chicks will have knee pads". Funny that.

Gen.Steiner
06-04-2007, 21:43
Takes all sorts, as they say. ;)

PS: 4,444th post! :D

Doctor Thunder
06-04-2007, 21:59
In case I forgot to mention it earlier. We gave her kneepads for versitility. Those people who want female storm troopers, or cadians with carapace armor already have much of the work done for them. Those that want regular flak armor can either scrape them off or leave them on as a simple decoration. It's in between flak armor and carapace armor, so it can easily work as either.

Gen.Steiner
06-04-2007, 22:06
In case I forgot to mention it earlier. We gave her kneepads for versitility.

And a good job, too, or else you'd have people whining about having to add kneepads! :p

Zachariah
06-04-2007, 23:20
So you never noticed that she had boobs?

So far my IGs will have only one female trooper, and even she'll be a part of my Kroots. If the name Machiko Noguchi says anything, I don't have to explain anything.
I'll be adding more female troops in time, as the army is an equal opportunity force.

YEAH! That chick from the Predator Books!

Anyway, If my mom and myself both threw on some cammies, a helmet, kevlar and grease paint, we be unidentifiable from each other (does that make me tiny and feminine, or her big and manly?)

Gen.Steiner
06-04-2007, 23:31
Nyargh. To all those who declare "LOL women is same as mens when in camo etc!" I say: no, they're not. I've seen them. They are easily identifiable as women (in the main, there's always exceptions).

Ditto the police. Hip size, breasts, height, shape of face... etc etc. There's a thousand things that the millions of years of evolution have made so that we go "Ook, a wimminz" when we see one. Usually. This happens regardless of camo, of clothes, or of helmet.

Trust me.

Doctor Thunder
06-04-2007, 23:58
This was written by Dave on Adeptus Windy City, in response to complaints about the position of the model's knees, and I think you'll find it fascinating:



RAMSEY wrote:
A little knock kneed in the front.

Actually, this is appropriate and demonstrates the sculptors knowledge of proportion and human anatomy. Especially of human anatomy.

The female human pelvis is typically wider and shorter in proportion to the dimensions of a male human pelvis. This displaces the acetbulum, the socket in the pelvis for the head of the femur, both laterally and anteriorly (to the side and the front) and rotates the plane of the acetabulum both inferiorly and medially (lower and towards midline). Not a lot. Just a little. Typically a few degrees. Thus the female femur is typically angled a little towards midline from vertical. This angle is called the "Q angle" and is appropriately represented on this figure. A more advanced "Q angle" is compensated at the knee by a slightly oblique angle outward, resulting in a mild but often slightly noticable "genu valgus" (lateral angle at knee). This valgus angle is exaggerated in an optical illusion created by thigh mass.

When the sculptor chose to exaggerate the model's hips (pelvis width) he proportionately modified the Q angle of the femur and the valgus angle of the knee.

This is all typical, normal, textbook anatomy. The model looks appropriate, proportionate, and anatomically correct.

In addition, the model is posed as walking forward, in a mid-stance or early propulsive phase of gait on the right and a swing phase of gait on the left. In this phase of gait, it is appropriate and proportionate for a female with a significant genu valgus and large Q angle to turn her knee in on the leg that is advancing. Furthermore, a right-handed shooter would be bearing the weight of her gun on the left and causing an additional distortion to posture and gait.

Thus, the sculptor has demonstrated understanding not only of human anatomy, but of normal human biomechanics.

MrBigMr
07-04-2007, 00:44
YEAH! That chick from the Predator Books!
Right. The main reason was that the Kroot sprue didn't have enough Kroot for my squad and I didn't want to buy a whole sprue for more, I just though about buying one Escher ganger with a shotgun and mod it into a hunting rifle. She'd be the Shaper, working like as a middleman between the Kroot mercs and the IG.
It also fits the style, as the IG is based on Aliens colonial marines. Just models masks on the Kroot and give them some high tech looking gear.


Trust me.
And me.
While at a quick glance it is not always easy to spot a fully geared woman from men, the difference should come very clear as soon as you take a closer look. Even with body armor and helmet, women were quite easy to spot amongst the men.
But what would I give to sleep in a crowded tent next to two petite blonds in olive drab boxers and t-shirts...
(answer: 9 months out of my life and the hearing from my left ear)
She not one of them. (http://tietokannat.mil.fi/peitsi05/include/thumbnail.php?id=29&width=640)
(Note guy on the top bunk, TV behind her and a cable on the bed, going to a PS2 controller. Yes, army life is hard sometimes.)

Bunnahabhain
07-04-2007, 21:17
They do look rather good. I just put in a request for a set. All my tank crews, and some others will be going into command squads, and other places where they'll stand out.

revford
07-04-2007, 22:17
I'm in, one as a tank commander, one as a lieutenant and the rest mixed in with the other units.

I'll have to see how long it takes other players to notice as a way to test if us civvies can spot a woman in combat armour.

Gen.Steiner
07-04-2007, 22:31
I'll have to see how long it takes other players to notice as a way to test if us civvies can spot a woman in combat armour.

Hint: When they shove their weapon in your face and scream "On the ground! Now!" their voice is different. ;) :p

MrBigMr
07-04-2007, 22:39
Hint: When they shove their weapon in your face and scream "On the ground! Now!" their voice is different. ;) :p
You won't hear it, because by the time they say it, you'll be dead. Or she'll die before opening her mouth. Guard doesn't have the luxury of taking prisoners. It's either kill or be killed. Very often the latter.

Gen.Steiner
07-04-2007, 22:57
Incorrect! Prisoners are vital for intelligence purposes. Anyway, when one is 'clearing' a house, it's easier to shoot potential future hostiles or contaminated heretics when they're lying on the ground face down. :angel:

MrBigMr
07-04-2007, 23:36
Incorrect! Prisoners are vital for intelligence purposes. Anyway, when one is 'clearing' a house, it's easier to shoot potential future hostiles or contaminated heretics when they're lying on the ground face down. :angel:
The problem is, I don't see many races surrendering. When facing 'Nids, Orks, Necrons, Eldar (any Eldar), Chaos and so on, do you see them dropping their guns and surrendering? Propably Tau, but I'm not even sure about that. Best way to get prisoners in 40K is to shoot them all and find someone who isn't dead. Yet.

As for real life, yes, I've had the training, but it didn't involve any verbal commands. Just creep up on the target and beat the crap out of him with few of your friends. Then drag him away before he is missed.

Kegluneq
07-04-2007, 23:48
Imperial Guard don't just fight aliens and Chaos Marines. Insurrections and pirate raids may well be common throughout the galaxy, and many situations calling for IG aid may not be Chaos or Alien related at all (although to anyone existing out of Imperial law, both would have some appeal).

sanctusmortis
08-04-2007, 00:33
That right there is an awesome representation of a female soldier. It's very much correct (even if, as many have pointed out, her trousers seem a little, well, tight in the buttocks), both anatomically and in how much it stands out from a male Cadian.

And it reminds me of a certain Meryl from MGS when she's in an army uniform :D

As has been pointed out a squillion times, if you see a unit on march, you can spot the women even in full battle gear from behind. You can tell by their stance, hips, legs, the way they walk...

Legion
08-04-2007, 13:18
These are looking Good. Doc thunder Check your PM.

El Presedente
08-04-2007, 19:36
wow now just to get over my internet buying phobia and keep hold of some cadian arms.

Yuuya
09-04-2007, 02:49
this will be great for conversion.i will be getting a set or 2 as an added variety for my imperial troopers.

Doctor Thunder
15-04-2007, 05:07
Update for you guys. The second set of legs is 100% done, as well as another head. One of the things I dislike about the GW male cadians is that they all have the same face and body type. Real people aren't like that, so we've given each head and set of legs a slightly different body-type and expression. (You may notice that this head has a much more traditional 40K "screaming" expression on her face for you purists out there) That will lead to greater diversity in the models and a greater overall quality to the project. Like before, we've blue-tacked on some plastic arms and helmet so you can see what one would look like fully assembled. http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/Progress3.jpg

Tanith Ghost
15-04-2007, 05:15
[Darth Vader]Impressive........MOST Impressive......[/Darth Vader]

So how does one get into this project?

Outlaw289
15-04-2007, 05:18
Why does everyone care so much about female soldiers?

Doctor Thunder
15-04-2007, 05:27
So how does one get into this project?
I'll send you a PM. :)


Why does everyone care so much about female soldiers?

Lots of reasons. It's fluffy (50% of cadian guardsmen are female), it patterns after some much-loved sci-fi themes (starship troopers) as well as fantasy and historical themes (valkyries, vikings, WWII russian forces)
For people like me, who approach the game cinematically, the image of men and women standing beside each other in defense of their homeland is very evokative and fun.
It's also distinct. War has historically been dominated by men, and since 40K is fiction, it is fun to explore different fictional possibilities.
From a modeling perspective, it's both challenging and rewarding at the same time. For me, the hobby aspect is the best part of the game. It is where you can be the most creative and imaginative. I'll take one well-converted model over a thousand mundane models built straight out of the box any day. :)
Then there's asthetics. Generally, in western culture, the male form is considered to be functional, not astethically beautiful. Now, I know there are a lot of people who like hairy sweaty men, and I have nothing against that, it's just important to note that it takes hundreds of hours to paint an army, and some people would rather paint models of something besides hairy sweaty men from time to time.

Doctor Thunder
15-05-2007, 06:13
Okay, everyone, the sculpting is complete and the originals have survived their trecherous journey across two continents and at least one ocean to arrive in my grubby little hands.
This will be my final update on regular forums. The molds are being made as we speak. So this is the final call if anyone else wants to join in and get some. If you were waiting to see how it turned out, then your wait is over. It has turned out.

So, how do they look, you ask? Having now seen them in person, they are amazing. Heinrick did a spectacular job. I daresay these are better then the sculpts for the male cadians. I am 100% satisfied with the end result, and I hope you guys are as well.
(Just click on a thumbnail to see a larger version of the pics)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/th_final3.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/final3.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/th_Final2.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/Final2.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/th_Final1.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/Final1.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/th_final7.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/final7.jpg)

Doctor Thunder
15-05-2007, 06:15
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/th_final7.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/final7.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/th_final6.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/final6.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/th_final5.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/final5.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/th_final4.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Gargoyles/final4.jpg)


The sculptor said something really inspiring to me in our last email. He said that this project was particularly special for him, because it was not a "rich kid" comission, nor was it a commercial project for a company, but a true hobby project, by hobbyiests for hobbyiests.
I thought that was really cool and wanted to share that with you guys.

Okay, so I hope you all have enjoyed this little adventure in model creation. If anyone else wants to join in send me a PM.

Cheers.

Tanith Ghost
15-05-2007, 22:46
PM sent to Doc Thunder(heh, reminds me of Doc Samson for some reason :p )
concerning my activity on the project.

mark_logue
28-05-2007, 12:51
It's funny, I've seen this conversation about 10 times now on the different message boards I frequent. People who have never been in the military insist that "You can't tell with the gear on," and then people who have actually been in the military correct by saying, "Yes you can, you can tell from a mile away."

Maybe the military people are used to seeing people in combat gear and can tell them apart and some of the other people can't. I remember going to get some food with other guys on boot camp and having a chick say that she couldn't tell us army guys apart because we all looked the same.

People do that all the time with groups of people they are not familliar with they can't tell them apart because they will identify them one or two features (ie just on their race) but if they are around that group for a while they know what to look for.

The sculpts look cool by the way. Send my compliments to the sculpter I wish I could do faces like that.

Kriegsherr
28-05-2007, 13:21
As for real life, yes, I've had the training, but it didn't involve any verbal commands. Just creep up on the target and beat the crap out of him with few of your friends. Then drag him away before he is missed.

Well, in "Real Life" different armies had different styles and also adhered to the conventions of geneva to different levels.

I'm pretty sure the rules of engagement say that verbal commands have to be involved when making a prisoner, and that a prisoner shouldn't be beaten as long as he didn't tries to attack anyone, but then again torturing prisoners of war is also strictly forbidden in the conventions of geneva yet it is done not only by armies not adhering to the conventions... even in the swiss army, the nation geneva belongs to, while in the training officially adhering to the conventions (so no snipers for example), some sick individuals who risk their job and military rank train soldiers secretly in the art of torturing and sniping.


In 40k though I think this is all a matter of personal taste, as no two publications on the same race really are coherent on their code of ethics and so on. I can't imagine a faschist empire as the Imperium beeing very nice to prisoners, but if you look back at some of the faschist regimes on earth in the past, they also had different codes of ethics during different times, depending on how desperate they were, how insane or rutheless their leaders were or (very important) how much the individual soldier was brainwashed/fearing the regime/a sickminded killer himself.
So its still open to interpretation, as everything else is in 40k

Kriegsherr
28-05-2007, 13:43
Nyargh. To all those who declare "LOL women is same as mens when in camo etc!" I say: no, they're not. I've seen them. They are easily identifiable as women (in the main, there's always exceptions).

Ditto the police. Hip size, breasts, height, shape of face... etc etc. There's a thousand things that the millions of years of evolution have made so that we go "Ook, a wimminz" when we see one. Usually. This happens regardless of camo, of clothes, or of helmet.

Trust me.

It's all because male soldiers always seem to be very desperate for chicks.... must have something to do with male dominance in most armies, long months away from home and civilazation and all :rolleyes:

I've never seeing guys beeing so exited about cheap old porn-magazin they found in the trash (!!!) because the guys who where stationed there before us didn't wanted to be seen with the crap in normal civilazation.... I would bet these ugly things got used by more than two shifts of soldiers... I didn't even wanted to touch them, they were gross! :rolleyes:

I think guys who were in military service for to long could tell apart men and women even if they would wear full power-armour.... they have developed a sixth sense for that ;)

Even so, I don't know if any 28mm small plastic man/woman can ever accuratly show the difference... that is, if they are not over-exagerating things, like this miniatures sculpted for this project, while beeing really nice, quite obviously do... nothing wrong with that, I just like a more realistic kind of miniature sculpting, even if that means getting less dramatic results.

MrBigMr
28-05-2007, 13:48
Well, in "Real Life" different armies had different styles and also adhered to the conventions of geneva to different levels.

I'm pretty sure the rules of engagement say that verbal commands have to be involved when making a prisoner, and that a prisoner shouldn't be beaten as long as he didn't tries to attack anyone, but then again torturing prisoners of war is also strictly forbidden in the conventions of geneva yet it is done not only by armies not adhering to the conventions... even in the swiss army, the nation geneva belongs to, while in the training officially adhering to the conventions (so no snipers for example), some sick individuals who risk their job and military rank train soldiers secretly in the art of torturing and sniping.
Well, I was in a scout/guerrilla unit. We work behind enemy lines and all that. You start shouting orders to a lone sentry, his friends will be all over you. You just move in quick and tackle him before he can get a word out. We jokingly called it "capturing and abusing a prisoner", but it was just taking the sentry down and pinning and dragging him away.

As for snipers, we use snipers like other squads use MGs. A semi-auto sniper rifle is far better for ambushes. While mines, bombs and plenty of small arms fire keep the enemy pinned, the snipers can try and take out specific targets.
But that's just out unit. Some other snipers were more like assassins. They were just given a target and let loose.

Souleater
28-05-2007, 14:31
I've already PM'd the good Doctor about getting some of these figures.

Real pity that FW didn't pick the idea up. Maybe they could fill in with some female officers, commissars, etc? :D

Kudos on putting this project together and seeing it through.

Ciaphas Cain
28-05-2007, 15:14
Is it too late to join???

Cheers

CC

dr.oetk3r
30-05-2007, 01:16
OH man, I would very much like some of those.

Count me in.

Doctor Thunder
28-06-2007, 07:21
Edit:
I've had a few requests from people who wanted to see some pictures of the models fully assembled and painted before they decided whether or not they wanted to join the club and get some for themselves, so I painted some up for all to see. I'm not the best painter in the world, but I think you'll still enjoy seeing how this project has gone from concept to reality.
Just click on a thumbnail to see the full pic. :)

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Imperialgirls001.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Imperialgirls001.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Imperialgirls002.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Imperialgirls002.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Imperialgirls003.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Imperialgirls003.jpg)

Doctor Thunder
28-06-2007, 07:22
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Imperialgirls004.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Imperialgirls004.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Imperialgirls005.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Imperialgirls005.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Imperialgirls006.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Imperialgirls006.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Imperialgirls007.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Imperialgirls007.jpg)

Gen.Steiner
09-07-2007, 19:24
Now I have money in the bank, I can finally purchase some. Could you PM me the details of who to pay and what with and how much again please? :)

Doctor Thunder
09-07-2007, 22:43
Now I have money in the bank, I can finally purchase some. Could you PM me the details of who to pay and what with and how much again please? :)

Sure, I'll send you a PM. :)

Captain Micha
06-09-2007, 12:32
ooo so we can keep buying these? expect to hear from me fridayish if nothing comes up

Patriarch
06-09-2007, 13:29
Sure, I'll send you a PM. :)

Hi, could you PM me with details as well please?

Thanks

Doctor Thunder
06-09-2007, 15:10
Hi, could you PM me with details as well please?

Thanks

Sure thing. :)