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View Full Version : Using an Inquisition list to represent the Blood Pact



||-MARKO-||
09-02-2007, 10:47
hey y'all

I've had a pretty good idea whilst picking throught the black library's sabbat world's crusade background book - what about using the witch/daemonhunter list to represent the blood pact and other chaos forces that they employ? I'll probably never use this idea, but I've made a List of 'counts as' things - here they are:

Inquisitorial stormtroopers - blood pact warriors
guardsmen - traitor guardsmen (duh :D )
Penitent Engine(s) EDIT: or dreadnoughts? - 'stalk tanks' (see the book i talked about before)
Inquisitor - magister (thats what they call the leaders of the pact)
tanks of the IG - Traitor tanks
Daemonhosts - guess what :p

there'd be many more, but i just thought this may inspire someone (or myself!)

cheers, marko

Angelus Mortis
09-02-2007, 11:11
Why not just use the Bloodpact list that was already published? Thats what its there for. I just have a real aversion of using Imperial armies to represent the Chaos armies. They all have their own lists. If you like Daemnohunters or Witch Hunters then play them.

||-MARKO-||
09-02-2007, 11:20
no, thats not my point. i have the pact list, but its not complete. plus, using the chaos rules themselves would mean having everyone as bolter wileding , power-armoured etc people, and that aaint the pact. plus, the guard list would take away the use of stalk tanks, etc, and i think that most people would be happy to play this force.


more opinions?

vampking111
09-02-2007, 11:44
i really like the idea, though i know someone who used the guard rules and VDRed a stalk tank (came in at about 160 points i think)

Commissar Molotov
09-02-2007, 11:46
no, thats not my point. i have the pact list, but its not complete. plus, using the chaos rules themselves would mean having everyone as bolter wileding , power-armoured etc people, and that aaint the pact. plus, the guard list would take away the use of stalk tanks, etc, and i think that most people would be happy to play this force.


more opinions?

Not complete? It added a unit to the Lost and the Damned list. I thought that was probably the best way to do it - the LaTD list allows you access to units like the Hellhound and Leman Russ anyway.

jubilex
09-02-2007, 12:06
I think it's a decent idea. The blood pact entry for latd is not complete, there is no hq choice at all, forcing you to take chaos lords/leiutenants which, as he said, aint blood pact. Making a disciplined "Imperial" style army (which the pact is) of any size from that list is tough. In any case, there are two pact lists, the other being on the gw site and this one uses guard + doctrines, so it seems that it is gw policy to represent chaos armies of this type with imperial lists. The only problem with "counts as" armies lies in their representation. Ie as long as it conforms in all respects to its "parent" list and there is no confusion about what is what, it's ok. Imo anyway.

Angelus Mortis
09-02-2007, 12:22
The blood pact entry for latd is not complete, there is no hq choice at all, forcing you to take chaos lords/leiutenants which, as he said, aint blood pact.
A Chaos Lord/Lieutenant leading a Chaos army? My that would be odd. :rolleyes:

jfrazell
09-02-2007, 12:30
hey y'all

I've had a pretty good idea whilst picking throught the black library's sabbat world's crusade background book - what about using the witch/daemonhunter list to represent the blood pact and other chaos forces that they employ? I'll probably never use this idea, but I've made a List of 'counts as' things - here they are:

Inquisitorial stormtroopers - blood pact warriors
guardsmen - traitor guardsmen (duh :D )
Penitent Engine(s) EDIT: or dreadnoughts? - 'stalk tanks' (see the book i talked about before)
Inquisitor - magister (thats what they call the leaders of the pact)
tanks of the IG - Traitor tanks
Daemonhosts - guess what :p

there'd be many more, but i just thought this may inspire someone (or myself!)

cheers, marko

Good ideas. I normally thoguht of using a guard list with hellhound for stalk tanks, but that could work as well. The use of demonhosts and the magister is pretty good.

You could even use the SOB rules portion as heavies - what were they death brigades? Something a little different, a heavy chaos storm unit.

Brother Loki
09-02-2007, 12:40
A Chaos Lord/Lieutenant leading a Chaos army? My that would be odd. :rolleyes:

Well it would be odd given that the Lord and Lieutenant both have Chaos Space Marine stats and armour, whereas Blood Pact officers don't on the whole. The Pact are originally from the Halo stars outside the Imperium, and therefore have little or nothing to do with the Traitor legions. Their leaders are not Marines.

I like the idea of using the inquisition lists - I think they work pretty well. Having said that, I think the pact are probably popular enough to stand a list of their own.

jubilex
09-02-2007, 12:44
A Chaos Lord/Lieutenant leading a Chaos army? My that would be odd. :rolleyes:
It would in this case, the pact are portrayed as an imperial style army, not led by super men and daemons, but imperial style commanders. The commander of my latd is represented by al rehem (sp?), his 3+ save is little more than an embarassment (except when he makes it of course) and his statistics, well we don't even talk about them. The point is, the pact follow imperial doctrines and organisations, but with the latd list, you can't do this with any degree of accuracy. Thats why people flail about representing them and why there are two lists, I think.
Oooh Loki, you type fast.

Warp_touched
09-02-2007, 18:26
I quite like it honestly, I'm a huge fan of Gaunts Ghosts and looking up your choices I can see the resemblence.
Plus, it would make for some fun games, even just amongst friends.

Captain Micha
09-02-2007, 18:34
go for it! please!

I wanna see 'choas' without seeing space rines with horns

Grimtuff
09-02-2007, 18:39
Why not just use the Bloodpact list that was already published? Thats what its there for. I just have a real aversion of using Imperial armies to represent the Chaos armies. They all have their own lists. If you like Daemnohunters or Witch Hunters then play them.

Yes, we get it. You dislike anything that is "count as". Go back an throw your toys out of the pram somewhere else.

Because we all know a Stormtrooper is not a Servitor :rolleyes:

jfrazell
09-02-2007, 19:01
Why not just use the Bloodpact list that was already published? Thats what its there for. I just have a real aversion of using Imperial armies to represent the Chaos armies. They all have their own lists. If you like Daemnohunters or Witch Hunters then play them.
Bloodpact lists are not legal in tournaments. Although I don't care about that personally, you'd also have problems with generic pickup games.

As GW itself has a recommended IG guard list for bloodpact, the aversion to imperial armies standing in for Chaos ones is misplaced.

Rabid Bunny 666
09-02-2007, 19:07
Go or it! I'm sure you can find something suitably warped to represent Arco Flagellants afterall :D[dice0]

edit: I'm even unlucky on the Internet :(

AdmiralGrave
09-02-2007, 23:01
Sounds great. This is the sort of thing i'd love to see more players doing.

Unlucky Rabbid see you in maidenhead you might have a bit more luck there.

Angelus Mortis
09-02-2007, 23:13
Yes, we get it. You dislike anything that is "count as". Go back an throw your toys out of the pram somewhere else.

Because we all know a Stormtrooper is not a Servitor :rolleyes:

Is that a personal attack? One that has nothing to do with this thread? Isn't that trolling? Lets find out.

Grimtuff
09-02-2007, 23:16
I think much of what I referenced was trolling by you. Remember this thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66518&highlight=stormtrooper) on a very much similar topic?

I fail to see what your problem is with someone using this list to represent another army. It is not Proxying, there is a huge difference between that and counts as.

t-tauri
09-02-2007, 23:25
Is that a personal attack? One that has nothing to do with this thread? Isn't that trolling? Lets find out.
No. It isn't. It's a discussion. Part of that is that people have opposing views. Let's just treat each other with a little respect please.
Back on topic please and let's not get into personal attacks or previous threads.
t-tauri

The Warseer Inquisition

Imp of High Noon
10-02-2007, 05:35
Could someone linky the pact list please, I'm doing a Guard/Daemon hunter's army - which is of course evil, or it wouldn't be relevant - but I've never seen this list you speak of and would be interested to.

Angelus Mortis
10-02-2007, 10:54
I think much of what I referenced was trolling by you. Remember this thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66518&highlight=stormtrooper) on a very much similar topic?

I fail to see what your problem is with someone using this list to represent another army. It is not Proxying, there is a huge difference between that and counts as.Which as I said before, has nothing to do with this thread or topic. Stop trying to start an argument. Strike 2.

||-MARKO-||
10-02-2007, 13:06
thanks for the feedback all, im gonna discuss also at my local store soon. i might even use the idea once i have finished my BA's :D

@ imp of high noon - the list was in a white dwarf from ages back, white cover with a sister of battle on the cover. SOC time. it was maily background info, but had a small section for rules...

@ angelus - please listen to t-tauri. i made this thread to discuss on, not to argue on. if you are against 'counts as' lists, just say why and we'll be happy.

marko

Ko Improbable
10-02-2007, 14:47
My $0.02

I disagree on the idea of the Stormtroopers being the standard Blood Pact troops. I got the impression that the Pact was equipped equally to Imperial Guard. Stormtroopers are not only better equipped, but they're better trained.
If you used Inducted Guard as the Blood Pacters and Stormtroopers as Elite Blood Pacters, that'd be better.

Basically, the inability to take a more normal human HQ in LatD is a flaw in the LatD list, IMO. One that, if corrected, would solve the Blood Pact issue, as well. That, and actually coming up with official rules and stats for the stalk tanks.

Gen.Steiner
10-02-2007, 14:53
I've always thought that the best way to represent the Blood Pact is by using the Imperial Guard list, to be honest.

After all, the Blood Pact are essentially corrupted Guard! They're organised on the same lines, and Stalk-Tanks fit the Sentinel profile while SteG and AT vehicles fit Chimera and Russ slots. Then you can always use allied Chaos Space Marines or LatD units if you want some crazier craziness.

Wintermute
10-02-2007, 16:47
Which as I said before, has nothing to do with this thread or topic. Stop trying to start an argument. Strike 2.

Did you not read this post (http://www.warseer.com/forums//showpost.php?p=1286610&postcount=19) by t-tauri?

The only person trying to start an argument is you. If you continue to post in this manner I will issue you with Strike for Trolling

Wintermute
The WarSeer inquisition

TheEndIsHere
10-02-2007, 17:02
I always tought the bes tway to represent a bloodpact *?*company*?* is to use a doctorine Grenadier/Storm trooper IG list cause on the GW site it showed a bloodpact army with these rules and they looked awesome...

oh and whats the Storm Trooper/Servitor thing?

TheEnd


EDIT: Sick! HW Storm Troopers!! htey would rock... but Angel Mortis why not alow them?

Nostro
10-02-2007, 17:08
My $0.02

I disagree on the idea of the Stormtroopers being the standard Blood Pact troops. I got the impression that the Pact was equipped equally to Imperial Guard. Stormtroopers are not only better equipped, but they're better trained.
If you used Inducted Guard as the Blood Pacters and Stormtroopers as Elite Blood Pacters, that'd be better.

Basically, the inability to take a more normal human HQ in LatD is a flaw in the LatD list, IMO. One that, if corrected, would solve the Blood Pact issue, as well. That, and actually coming up with official rules and stats for the stalk tanks.

I agree with both statements. I think Blood PAct are better represented with guardsmen (+WH Allies for the Inquisitor fancy equipment). You can carapace them or use sharpshooters if you want to have a "guardsman +" but I find that stormtroopers are a bit too elite. MHO, though...

And yeah a non SM LatD HQ is really needed...


EDIT: Sick! HW Storm Troopers!! htey would rock... but Angel Mortis why not alow them?

Well it'd be better not to hijack this thread with starting a discussion on this, you should go in the thread Grimtuff linked to, it'd be more on topic. But to sum up, Angelus Mortis is against the "count as" rule. Because (roughly, and not quoting):
"if the rules are for an army, you should use this army. The rules are for a "servitor" so if your mini doesn't look like a "servitor" it is a problem, it is is not WYSIWYG. The IG rules are for IG, you should not use them to represent your fancy "skaven in space" or your blood pact. It is like using a coke can to represent a carnifex"

Woops seems like I wrote much about than I wanted. Please do not comment on that too much... :p

Grimtuff
10-02-2007, 17:39
Precisely, "counts-as" is there to be encouraged, not have someone be discredited for using their imagination and ingenuity.

I remember when I made an Adeptus Mechanicus army using the WH codex, nobody complained, everything was WYSIWYG and/or consistent. This is the beauty of counts as.

Let's take a common example here, people using the Deathwing list to represent a "1st company" army of any given chapter. Is this exploitative in any way? Of course not! The line, "well they're not Dark Angels" won't fly. As this is not proxying.

The idea of using the DH list to Represent the Blood Pact is a wonderful idea IMO, just spend 2 minutes going over what is what with your opponent before the game, and frankly, if they need reminding every turn what a unit is then the really are lacking the mental capacity to play this game to be blunt.

||-MARKO-||
10-02-2007, 18:02
if they need reminding every turn what a unit is then the really are lacking the mental capacity to play this game to be blunt.


dammit, i knew there was something wrong with me.... :p

Darthvegeta800
10-02-2007, 18:11
I'd say go with IG. And give them a good mix of Stormtroopers and normal Guardsmen.

Gen.Steiner
10-02-2007, 18:13
Actually, Hardened Veterans make better Death Brigade units than Stormtroopers in my opinion. More special weapons, more zaniness.

That's just my opininon tho'. :p