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Fortier
10-02-2007, 21:16
I'm working on my IG doctrines for my army and am having trouble when it comes to Hardened Fighters. I was wondering if any guard players that have used it before can enlighten me on its effetiveness. Is it worth it, or is it just a waste of points? As far as my army goes, it fits the fluff, but I don't want to be paying too much for an infantry squad. So, what are your thoughts on the Hardened Fighters doctrine?

Angelwing
10-02-2007, 21:30
i chose it based on my background. game wise, i dont take it that often to be honest. its really only if i expect to be assaulted (eg tyranids) or in a cityfight.

Steel_Legion
10-02-2007, 21:32
suppose WS4 is nice, but too pricey I think, thought a nasty surprise against come armies, and if its on Sentinals is very good, 3 S5 WS4 attacks on a charge :D

Fortier
10-02-2007, 21:33
i chose it based on my background. game wise, i dont take it that often to be honest. its really only if i expect to be assaulted (eg tyranids) or in a cityfight.

Do you think it would be more useful if it were only used on command squads and veteran squads or possibly just on veteran squads and my command HQ?

Angelwing
10-02-2007, 21:55
if these squad are tooled for combat, yep.i used to use it on armoured fist squads in 3rd ed, but its of little use in 4th. the guard strength is heavy weapons and rapid fire though.
honestly, there are far more useful doctrines than hardened fighters. its really for theming armies. eg. mine are the necromunda 94th, using fighters from house escher. i take hardened fighters and light infantry to best represent the skill lists for escher in necromunda.

UnRiggable
10-02-2007, 22:05
To put it better, there are far better choices for doctrines.

Gen.Steiner
10-02-2007, 22:19
I've taken it for background reasons.

It can be a nasty surprise, and it does mean that many armies that would hit you on 3s are only hitting on 4s - but don't expect it to win you games.

If it fits your army's background, take it. If it doesn't - don't.

superknijn
10-02-2007, 22:34
I know someone who has taken it to better defend against all the WS4 enemies around; not all that silly, as it makes the difference between a 4+ and a 3+ to hit roll. It also fits his particular company fluff. (IIRC, he's playing Cadian 8th 8th Company, I play 12th Company)

I tend not too waste points on letting my men survive longer; I want them to die sooner, so that my HS can pulverize the attackers. Then again, holding up the enemie is a good thing for this.

Rioghan Murchadha
10-02-2007, 23:06
Depends on the scenario... In say, combat patrol against marines, where you run generally on smaller tables, it's very handy to take hardened fighters and close order drill (just stay away from flamers). Sure you don't have power armour. But you're at least fighting with equal weapon skill, and equal initiative.

IMO close order drill is always handy since it's free, and initiative is vital in combat. Hard Fighters is very situational though.

Warboss Grimmtoof
11-02-2007, 00:13
If you expect to be trashed at point blank, go for close order drill, some flamers (or plasma guns) and hardened fighters. The only good thing about vets is ws4 and 3 assult weapons. If you want lotsa assult guns, get special weapons squads. If you want CC effectiveness, go for ogryns.

MrBigMr
11-02-2007, 00:40
Don't forget that it's +1 to WS, so a a HSO, Psycher with Honorifica Imperialis and a Commissar, will all get WS5. Might surprice your opponent, if he tries anything funny.

Ivan Stupidor
11-02-2007, 01:34
If it fits your army's background, take it. If it doesn't - don't.

This is the best advice for any doctrine, really.

Personally, I've found Hardened Fighters fairly useful. It's not a game-winner, but you can expect it to save a few Guardsmen on the defence against WS4, and bag a few more hits for your officers' power weapons. I take it mainly for background reasons, but there's still something incredibly satisfying about hitting Marines on a 3+ with your Officers and Commissars.

Besides, you get WS3 Sanctioned Psykers!