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View Full Version : 2000pts Wood Elves, is this cheese?



adreal
11-02-2007, 10:24
Okay Wood elves have come under alot of flak being so called "cheese" armies, now one played into the extreme forest spirts could be viewed as such, although it is themed (shrugs) I see this ed's version of Asrai as how all elves are ment to be, well trained, varied and above all good. So If that's cheese then any list anybody ever makes with the wood elves is cheese. Anyway's on with the list.

This was made for a 4 player 4000pts game, but this may very well become my defult asrai army (untill I build up some mroe units that is)

LORDS

Spellweaver-General, Level 4, Calaingor's Stave, Dispell Scroll=300pts
Yes she will get treesinging, I'de be stupid not to right? Also she should be very powerful for one or two spells a turn, not that cheesey

HEROS

Branchwraith-Level 1, A Cluster of Radiants, A Annoyance of Netlings=165pts
Okay, annoyance is a defult item in this list, personally I'de like one of the bound spells, but the lists I will be facing are VC so alittle protection in the combat phase is better then none

Wardancer Nobel-Stone of the Crystal Mere=135pts
A little protection for him, I don't want him in a war dancer unit unless he looses the 3+ ward as I may have to do the 4+ ward dance, and why give him a worse ward if I dont have to

Alter Nobel-Great Weapon, Light Armour, Shield, Helm of the Hunt, Hail of Doom Arrow=156pts
this guy has changed alot. With hail of doom arrow (and BS 6) he is a very real threat early in thew game (or late)

CORE

10 Archers=120pts
10 Archers=120pts
10 Archers=120pts
30 Archers, gasp shocking i know, an Asrai Army using glade guard, thier principal unit

8 Dryads=96pts
8 Dryads=96pts
Okay, bitch all you want about dryads, but thye are very toned down (before they used to be another type of wardancer) and thier is only 16, sure in larger number I can see them as unbalancing, but this is a WOOD ELF list, not a FOREST SPIRIT list

SPECIAL

7 Wardancers-Musician, Bladesinger=147pts
6 Wardancers-Musician, Bladesinger=129pts
Yes wardancers are powerful, just like black knights are powerful, or chosen chaos warriors, or brett knights, or Saurus warriors, they used to be worse, much worse

RARE
5 Waywatchers=120pts
them and my scouts are going to hunt necros, these guys are the uber scouts, but they cost a bundle, you can call anything else in my list cheese, but these guys are off limits

Treeman=285pts
Really in context with the other movers and shackers of the warhammer worls, treeemen arnt al lthat bad, sure two of them are pretty hard, backed up by swarms of dryads and treeking, plus surfing everywhere can get to you, but so do dragons, of shaggoths, or champions of khorne, or blood dragon vamps.

Total=1989pts
ok I now have 11 pts to spare :( someone hlep me out

Anardakil
11-02-2007, 11:56
Don't worry about cheese. You sound terribly worried :) relax haha. I don't think it looks cheesy at all. WE aren't THAT powerful. They're very vulnerable to magic and shooting, and can have a hard time with heavily armoured troops.

30 glade guards are quite a lot. You should be aware that it might be hard to be able to get them all in good positions to shoot.

Actually this list looks a little weak. Why? Well it's got no fast units (as in WE fast). You should really consider taking some cavalry to make the best of the WEs speed. I'd drop a hero (4 elven characters are quite costly in a 2k army, and you could do without one). You could do without the wardancer noble or the alter noble. I would also drop one of the glade guard units.

That would give you two units of 5 glade riders with a little tweaking for a few points.

enyoss
11-02-2007, 14:19
Hey there.

Not really got time to comment fully now, but it seems that the list is far from cheesy to me. You've been pretty restrained on the Dryads (the unit that really cranks up the complaints) and are hardly maxed out on magic.

One comment would be about the Hail of Doom arrow on the Spellweaver. With the low(ish) BS value, do you think it might be best to put it elsewhere for maximum effect?

I'd be interested to see how this gets on... have you played any games with it yet?

Cheers,

enyoss

EDIT: Anardakil: Is it possible to change your avatar? I think adreal had first dibs and it's a bit confusing... I was wondering what was going on when I first read your post! :)

god octo
11-02-2007, 14:24
dont worry- its not cheesy! I would rop the scouts, as you already have waywatchers and it can be difficult to find a hidding place for both units. With those extra points, i would bulk up both wardancer units, as at 5 strong, they are a bit feeble.

mightygnoblar
11-02-2007, 18:07
i think that your being a little too defensive, you should never have to explain every one of your choices and to be honest your list looks far from cheesy, another thing is that you should never go so far to make a list "un-cheesy" to please your opponent that you end up making choices that you know wont work or which make for a tactically unsound army, which seems to me is what you have done.
there would be nothing wrong with this list if you added a few more models to the wardancer units and added a few more units of dryads or some wildriders
regardless of what anyone says you should just concentrate on making an army that you enjoying playing with without having to explain yourself to your opponent

adreal
12-02-2007, 04:39
Well I'm glad it's not cheese, I just get sick of reading wood elves are cheese moan fests.

The lack of speed is mainly because i don't see it's use against undead, I mean they are pretty slow and have no warmachines (although black coaches would do well against my list)

Do you rekon HoDA on my alter? I just figured because he would be moveing double most of the time (or in combat) he wouldn't be able to shoot, plus the SW would most lily be near my achers unless she has to move to keep up with the forests.

Scouts and waywatchers are pretty effective together (had it used against me) but I suppose with the zero warmachines i'll be facing they wont be as inportant (partner is using ten of the little blighters) So I'll drop the scouts, but what to increase, wardancers (have to buy new models) or dryads (and risk people calling out cheese)

30 glade guard (well 40 all up with my partner) across 8 foot, being able to move and shoot without penilties......yeah that shouldn't be too hard to be effective with. If I dropped a glade guard unit, I could have a glade rider unit, but I don't see htem as being effective against undead

Anardakil
12-02-2007, 16:36
Hmm have you played against VC a lot? They can be everything else than slow. Especially Von Carstein armies can be very quick. Dire wolves, fell bats and the like are incredibly fast, and there's also the great spell Vanhel's Danse Macabre.
I know, I played VC before :)
You could really use at least one cavalry unit. Or why not warhawks to hunt necromancers?

adreal
13-02-2007, 04:36
one of the VC players is one of my usual opponents, granted we usually play TK v VC but he doesnt have a fast army, last game he used two units of black knights, and as surprising as this may sound, even with three mages (count and two necros) he doesn't seem to do much in the magic phase, a unit or two here and there but not much else.

Why not warhawks, well first I don't own the models, second, while this game may be a month away (plenty of time for models) I simply have other things to spend my money on. I have a unit of waywatchers and scouts (untill I drop them), 120pts for 5 shots (glade riders) that may never get to kill a necro, just doesnt seem as effective as 120pts for 10 shots that can thin out units like skellies/zombies.

The other undead player is abit of a mystery, as I have never played him (other then mordhiem) I know he has models for blood dragons and nechrachs (the only ones I'm terribly worried about, due to lack of magic defense) but there is also another wood elf player (although his list according to him is alot like mine).

To put it simply, Nechrachs will worry me (good magic), black coaches will worry me (I don't think i have anything S7), and ghole screens will annoy me (high T skirmishes).

Should HoDA go to my alter, and can he use it if he double moves.
Should I drop my scouts, and if so, what unit should I bump up, wardancers or dryads

colnagoing
13-02-2007, 06:16
magic defense is actually incredibly easy with WE. take the wand on the lvl 4, rerolling all dispells is a great asset...especially against a magical powerhouse like undead.

black coaches you will simply have to charge with your alter and if possible some other unit.

Ghouls can be dealt with using your own skirmishers if you wanted. Dryads are pretty potent and will level a unit of ghouls pretty effectively.

the "stock" alter is your alter with HoDA and a shield..i think that its a good choice. downside is you will have to slow him down for a turn to level an undead unit. I reccomend doing this early on to eliminate bonuses held by certain unit (e.g. spears for skeletons)

A great mage hunter is the eagle...swoop in and kill him, then flee to safety when he losing due to CR...its a perfect situation. (NOTE: do NOT do this to a vampire...even a necarch will kill an eagle with little trouble)

I would bump up your wardancers...their dances prove invaluable in every situation against undead...well actually 99% of them.

adreal
13-02-2007, 10:15
hmm so hail of doom on the alter, drop scouts, take the wand and any points left go to wardancers?


:edit: with two lists, and two hail of doom arrows, think of the potential beardyness........both shot at a large unit of anything really......wel lthat's one less unit. Wont be so good against undead but still.....

:edit x2:ok I didnt end up taking the wand, but a scroll instead, because the stave is better for what I want to do. I thin I've got another 3 wardancers split over the two units :) but there is still room for improvment i think, or my list is perfect and my dice rolls will always be 6s

adreal
17-02-2007, 23:58
just a bump, over on asrai.org they have sugested i take wild riders, what do you guys think?

god octo
18-02-2007, 14:25
Wild riders are great, they are very powerful and are quite cheap for heavyish cavalry. Also, they can take a charge, if they arent too badly outnumbered and they charge at S5. Whats not to like about them?

Arhalien
18-02-2007, 14:30
ARRGHHH!!! Confusing avatars!
could one of you two please change your avatar. I looked at this thread and thought I saw the army lits writer replying to their own post!

Sorry, that's about all i wanted to say :)

adreal
19-02-2007, 04:44
I had mine first (pout) well i think i did......

Arhalien, anything you can think of for my list?

God octo, yeah wild riders are pretty good, no question, infact I wish I hadn't had taken so long to get started on putting a unit together, but do you think they would be better then both my dryad units (dropping the wraith for a WR nobel)

god octo
19-02-2007, 16:26
God octo, yeah wild riders are pretty good, no question, infact I wish I hadn't had taken so long to get started on putting a unit together, but do you think they would be better then both my dryad units (dropping the wraith for a WR nobel)

No, in that situation, i would keep the dryads. Most of your army is M5 skirmishers. A unit of 5 or 6 heavyish cavalry will not be able to perform to its full power, as they will not be supported. The dryads are good at lending help to both the wardancers and the treeman, as they are good in a fight and are cheap and quick.

If you were going to have unit of wild riders, i would also have a unit of glade riders, so that your Altar, Glade riders and Wild riders can support each other in combat and when moving.

adreal
20-02-2007, 04:40
ah cool, thanks for the reply, I'll leave my list as is then. I personally didn't think the wild riders would be all that great in this list, awesome taken out of context but when worked with the army they do need support.

Glad I only got around to converting up one more (so now I have two) rather then go out and blow money on a unit that wouldnt get used for abit. And i think the extra dispell dice from the wraith will be a big help

Crazy Harborc
21-02-2007, 01:14
It didn't seem cheesey to me. Most of the time the crys of "cheese, cheese, cheese" don't happen unless you win;) .

Dryads do tend to kick ass and take names in HtH. I prefer more dryads to a treeman. Dryads can clean a very wide path through an opponent's army;)

adreal
21-02-2007, 04:38
I have had mixed success with my dryads (two units of 12, both with champs) so I'm trying to keep them small, yeah they are pretty awesome, but I don't see them doing all that other people moan about (shrugs)

I'm mainly sticking with the treeman because I love my model for it, yes I would love to use that close to 300pts elsewhere, an eagle and maybe some more dryads/wardancers, but I'm gunna stick with him, he is atleast a large looming threat with a ward save

god octo
21-02-2007, 16:55
Plus, the largeness of him often leads to the "Kill him at all costs" chain of thought. Your opponent may target everything at him, only to have the rest of yuor unharmed army pounce on his troops- encourage this if your opponent has lots of shooting- bows cant really harm him, but they kill skirmishers, especially T3 ones.

Crazy Harborc
21-02-2007, 19:31
I think most of us have minies/models we just "must" have in our roster for a battle. IMHO, it's a favorite model is a VERY good reason for using whatever it is in a battle.......For me it's the treeman's younger brothers, gotta use them:evilgrin:

adreal
22-02-2007, 10:37
had a game against my usual undead opponent tonight, treeman let me down (but that is because I thought his Ld was 6), i love units of wardancers, hell I would love to drop the dryads and add a third unit of wardancers, but eggs and baskets come to mind.

Dryads are nice, but the branch wraith did little (although ariels blessing was a nice bonus to my dryads)

Spellweaver was good untill she died (damn treeman fleeing)

waywatchers acounted for two, yes TWO necro's, one on the first shots of the game, and saw off 8 zombies that danced thier way into thier hearts.

Hail of doom was wasted as a stand and shoot response on a vamp, only taking two wounds off her. But overall I see it as a good item, I mean the vamp looseing two wounds helped my wardancers kill her off (i love wardancers)

30 archers does seem a little excesicve, although no shots were wasted, generally thinning down units very quickly (the loss of two necros in the first three turns of the game really quietend down the magic phase)

overall not much I'de change, maybe drop a unit of archers for something, gut i don't know what?

adreal
24-02-2007, 01:28
bump.......er i mean, what do you guys think, driop ten archers for something else, or keep them

god octo
24-02-2007, 14:44
I would just keep the 3 units are archers- they form a sort of battle line and the 120 points is only really enough for some glade riders- which wouldnt work very well in this list. Plus, 30 S4 shots would end most units. :D

WARHAMMERED
24-02-2007, 15:00
7 Wardancers-Musician, Bladesinger=111pts
6 Wardancers-Musician, Bladesinger=111pts

I think you've made a mistake 7WD cant cost the same as 6.

adreal
25-02-2007, 01:10
I would just keep the 3 units are archers- they form a sort of battle line and the 120 points is only really enough for some glade riders- which wouldnt work very well in this list. Plus, 30 S4 shots would end most units. :D

mmm true that, but I could get another unit of dryads:cheese: more wardancers:angel: or spend more on magic items:cries:

I think I'll leave them in


7 Wardancers-Musician, Bladesinger=111pts
6 Wardancers-Musician, Bladesinger=111pts

I think you've made a mistake 7WD cant cost the same as 6.

thatnks for pointing that out I have now idea where 111pts came from, but I have edited that in my original post. Anyway on my army builder list they came out as the right points cost so really I was only being dumb here