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tenpole
11-02-2007, 12:45
I have been getting confused with coaches stating which type of tournament structure is what, but then it is not hard for me to get confused.

Round Robin - Is the structure where everyone plays everyone in a predetermined order. Ignore any previous post where if I said I do not like this structure as doh!, this is the one I prefer.

Open round robin - the one I do not like is where everyone plays everyone but the coach decides which opponent to play next

Swiss - I need a diagram to understand this one

Arkzein
11-02-2007, 14:52
Swiss is a little more complicated and I admit I don't understand the workings of it myself, but know the basic premise. Basically you end up playing games against similarly skilled oponents. For example:

Game one is random.

Game two. The winners player the winners. Losers player losers. Draws play draws.

Game three. Double Winners play. Win and Draws player. Win and Loss play. Double Draws play. Draw and loss play. Double losses. play.

Game four. Triple winners play. Two wins and a draw play. etc. etc.

You get the idea. Basically as it goes on you play those who have a similar record of wins, draws and losses. (can use points for this, perhaps to include number of Cas/TD in a ver complicated system, for example games workshop used it with the 20, 17, 13, 10, 7, 3, 0 system if you are familiar with the old GT).

All in all you could have as many teams as you want within a league, hundreds. But still have everyone only play 8 games and have a resultant winner. I feel it's more appropriate as an option for a torunament rather than the league, as the league will still need divisions based more on TR/games played. (ie with one big pool low TR teams still won't have a chance)

Another way of doing it is with the elo rating system. (The one used in Chess and Yahoo games for example) where everyone starts with 1000 and can raise or fall with each game. Benefit of this is that it carries over from one torunament until the next and so can help with seedings, the first game isn't random and you really will face someone of equal skill. Don't think it can work here, meant for two player games whent he sides are equal and this just isn't the case with TR. (For example if a player with 1800 elo rating started a new team and players someone with 1300 elo rating but with a team of TR 300 and lost, as he is likely to, his elo rating would plummet, whereas the others would raise drastically)

Problems? A lot of working out with either and we will still need divisions. A new team is still extremely unlikely to win when in a league with TR200-300 teams.

RawMessiah
11-02-2007, 15:35
I like Swiss-style as it gives a little more stable games, though maybe in a League it isn't as fitting as you have different TR teams. In a tournament that fits the best.
Round Robin is in my opinion the best for a League.

Autobot HQ
11-02-2007, 16:01
I personally like the round robin system as it works out easiest, an open round robin system has the problem of my NZQ (should they stay after all, seems to me some people still want a beating, and if we decide for two teams then they may just make a return at some point..) hunting down smaller teams (and I would..) and pummeling them before they have to face the bigger threats (like...oh well, now I've beaten the lizards I can't see any threat to them :p).

As always it is up to the people, I simply enforce their will ... unless my will is better, obviously :P

Arkzein
11-02-2007, 16:02
Thinking about it myself now I would tend to agree, fixed Round Robin for the League. Swiss for a cup.

The main advantage is that you can set the number of games in the torunament/cup to the number of games in a league system and this won't change as we gain more teams. (whereas a knockout will, more teams means a longer tournament, perhaps potenitally longer than the league runs for).

Thus we can have it set in stone that "You will have X games per week" as you always have a game in the swiss tournament, even if you lose every one. With a knockout when you're out, you'll have one less which might be too few for some. (eg 2 a week seems about right, one a week is a bit few)

Autobot HQ
11-02-2007, 16:07
I think Arkzein has this one nailed tbh. Swiss for a cup makes sense as one loss can be avanged, and stops th0rs elves moaning when they get ounked out by Benny ;)

Deng Ham
11-02-2007, 17:20
Using the Swiss for a cup is somwhat backwards to me. I think that you shoud win all games in a cup to win. And not still be able to win after a loosing one game.

Also a round robin system is preferabled to the free robin. And as long as there are not too many teams in each division a round robin is better. But it the division is big. Then teams get off balanceed.

LordSnotball
11-02-2007, 21:16
i disagree with that Deng Ham... Ićve seen tourneys where player A beats B and Loses to C. Player B loses to A and Beats C. Player C Beats A and loses to B.

The result is that they then have a semi-final later. But when u have 8 teams in the group, only the top 4 will go on, and to do that u just need to be good.

Then again, depends on what u play for and how u play.

-Snottie

Deng Ham
12-02-2007, 15:23
My main point was that there is a differenc with the way you aproche a robin (of any type), swiss and KO turnament/league.

And to me. A cup is an KO. And half the fun is to see teams getting tru dispite beeing a clear underdog.