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Groksnag
11-02-2007, 13:53
I am starting WarHammer Fantasy, and I basically know nothing about the game. I picked HighElves for my army, and the only pieces I have are a Swordmasters blisterpack(the one with the guy with the really big spear thats always bent). any advice or tips on what to do next.
please dont say observe games, Im already doing that.
the Swordmasters are currently show pieces for the moment, till the army is built.

Corrupt
11-02-2007, 15:18
Start by picking up 2-4 Boxes of troops. Stay away from archers...
Id reccomend 2-4 Spears and 1 Silverhelms. That would give you 2 Solid 20-25 Man Spears Regiment sand a small flanking unit of heavy cav(with spare parts for a commander from the cavalry)

Groksnag
11-02-2007, 17:37
why would I want to stay away from archers? isnt range a good thing to have in Fantasy? My understanding is that it will be a heck uva lot harder to play without archers.

zak
11-02-2007, 18:14
It's difficult to give advice about High Elves currently as they are due for a release in the latter part of this year (according to current rumours). It's probably best to either a) wait until this time or b) buy just the core of your amy as you may find you buy a whole army and then see all these lovely new models and some of your units are either obsolete or dull compared to the new models. It's hard to say what I would do. I suppose it depends on how badly you want the army and when your looking to play. Thankfully GW seemed to have ditched the policy of dumping units and are if anything adding units

Stouty
11-02-2007, 18:16
Archers are pants in everything but the odd small 10 man unit for taking a rank off the enemy because:-
-Strength 3 kills jack crap
-Unarmoured+Tough 3 means they lose firefights quickly and give away points easily
-They are too expensive because they pay for lots of things you'll never use like Initiative and WS

Combined they tend to be ineffectual for anything other than killing that 1 guy to strip a rank and rather easy points for the enemy.

High elf fans could probably go on at length at their weaknesses.

TKitch
11-02-2007, 19:08
archers do suck, and having a force without them, well, isn't that bad of a deal.

Stock up on Silver Helms, first off. They're an Awesome Core unit. They're fast, powerful, and can get the well-enjoyed 2+ armor save. You should field them in units of 6 or 10-12 (Depending on the 1 rank or two.)

Second: Get some spears. Skip the Lothern Sea Guard option. (For a useful unit, you could just buy that many spears and a unit of 10 archers, and still have points left over.) 2 Units of about 20 should suit well. Maybe 25, but start with 20.


Also, you can grab a few of the Mage models. All good HE armies will have at least 1 or 2 mages. They *are* that good.

Also: A Bolt Thrower or Two would be a good choice. They're new models and likely won't get redone. (The plastic one anyways.)

If you want *archers* look into the Shadow Warriors. The models are pretty damned nice, and the unit doesn't suck. Scouting, Skirmishers, and mean. They're worth every point, typically.

Other models that you should AVOID:

Phoenix Guard. They're really nice models, but the unit is tripe.
Lion Guard. Some will disagree, but they're a unit I expect to see seriously redone.
Swordmasters. It's a pretty decent unit, but they all look the same. Wait for the new models, I expect to see something amazing this time around.

mattjgilbert
11-02-2007, 19:37
I recently started Fantasy again and also have a High Elf army (and orcs too). The High Elf army has yet to win (5 games played) but I have learned a lot about them along the way.

Never take more than 10 archers. They are expensive for what they do. It's a shame but High Elves armies should feature loads of archers. Fingers crossed the new army book will fix this. In the last few games I've actually taken shadow warriors instead of archers and found them way more flexible and effective (if more expensive).

Repeater bolt throwers - get two at least.
Eagles - good for "march blocking" to slow down the enemy and disrupt their lines.

You will have limited numbers. Avoid phoenix guard as they really are an awful points sink and not worth it. Get yourself at least three blocks of infantry to get your numbers up. Two spears units and one sword master unit is what I'm currently working with.

Silver Helms - I haven't really had a huge amount of success with these but then I only have the 8 at the minute so I cannot get the rank bonus. That means to charge knowing I am going to win a combat I need to combine an attack with something else. Not something I've managed to pull of yet in my limited number of games as I've always been vastly outnumbered. I getting some more SH soon so I can see what a larger unit can do.

Magic - I've yet to experiment outside the high elf magic in the army book so someone else might be able to suggest what other spells selections are good.

Units I haven't got yet so have not tried are chariots, lions and reavers.

From what I have read, High Elves are tough to play. I hoping that learning to make them win will mean I have really learned the game.

Groksnag
11-02-2007, 20:37
Other models that you should AVOID:

Swordmasters. It's a pretty decent unit, but they all look the same. Wait for the new models, I expect to see something amazing this time around.

I dont really care if all the models look the same for Swordmasters. It's how well they perform that matters to me. besides, Swordmasters are fun to paint.
the only pieces for HE i have at the moment are a Swordmaster command blister pack. Ive only gotten the guy with the big spear painted, but he is painted to a (IMO) very high quality. I even painted his eyes.
eyes are a pain to paint btw.

505
11-02-2007, 21:09
I even painted his eyes.
eyes are a pain to paint btw.


I don't :D

mainly caus eIm an average painter adn every time Ive tried to do eyes....well they tend to get giant black tatoos on their face

Tutore
11-02-2007, 21:51
To start a basic 1000 points army you'll need:

40 spearmen, including command

5 silver helms

5 ellyrion reavers

1 great eagle

1 mage (on foot or on steed is up to you)

1 hero (see above)

1 repeater bolt thrower

10 swordmasters

perhaps another hero.

The things above count for more than 1000 points, but you want to choose your army a little bit, or not?

Ironhand
11-02-2007, 22:13
You could of course make a completely cavalry army - Silver Helms, Ellyrian Reavers, Chariots, maybe a unit of Dragon Princes, and a couple of Great Eagles, with all your characters mounted or in a chariot.

Groksnag
11-02-2007, 22:44
I sort of want to have an army focued around swords and ranged. I have a "fascination" (fine then, obsession) with swords, and I want that to be visible with my HE's. so Id likely use spearmen, swordmasters, and archers(yes i know you all say they suck, but everything has some use, just gotta find it).
plus, the army box comes with archers.

strv
11-02-2007, 23:46
Take two units of ten archers then.
They are very good for taking out warmachine crews(since they have long range and god b-skill), wich is good since elves dont stand up good to catapults or mortars.
They should make low ld light cavalery(wolf riders) panic pretty easily to.

elmolovesthekroot
11-02-2007, 23:51
I have always noticed the Silver helms die real easy.

I would stick with Spearmen and Archers. I love the Archers even though Str 3 does stink. If the arrows were armor piercing.....

Elmo

Groksnag
12-02-2007, 00:46
as following my previously said obsession with swords, I am likely to end up taking Eltharion in my HE. More likely than not, he would be the leader person and make Swordmasters not 0-1 choices.
is he even any good to begin with?

Stormbrow II
12-02-2007, 02:01
Head on over to A.org (www.Asur.org.uk) and you'll find advice on building an army.

Right now with the new army book in development I'd suggest you save your grade for when the book gets released (September/October looks most likely) or you'll end up with a number of models that have funkier updates that will make you regret buying what you have.

To be honest though, you can't go far wrong with a battalion box. €80 gets you a comfortable 800 points when broken down like this:
16 Archers becomes 10 Archers, 5 Shadow Warriors/Spears and a Mage
16 Spears with Full Command (the number increases depending on what you do with the archers)
8 Silver Helms with Full Command, Full Armour
1 RBT

This is just a rough guide - you could always decide to make less Helms and use the spare parts to convert a Character on a horse to lead them with the leftovers being added to the Spears.

I wouldn't recommend that you buy more than that as that will keep you busy learning how to get a good grasp of the game as well as helping you to develop your painting skills until the book comes out. Money well spent in that regard.

Tutore
12-02-2007, 11:02
as following my previously said obsession with swords, I am likely to end up taking Eltharion in my HE. More likely than not, he would be the leader person and make Swordmasters not 0-1 choices.
is he even any good to begin with?


Remember there will be a lot of players which won´t let you use special characters. You have to have a second solution. Plus, more than 1 unit of swordmasters in 2000 points have no sense IMO.

TKitch
12-02-2007, 12:31
for a SC, Eltharion is a good one, as he's NOT 500,000 points. You can actually field him reasonably well in a normal game without breaking everything.

But FYI: For multiple units of SM, you're going to be feeling cramped in 2K, you'd be better off at 2250 or 2500. A Decent unit of SMs is going to be a lot of points, and two of them, tagging along with Eltharion, would make for a lot of points.

*Ponders* How would MSU play with Elthy and 3 or 4 units of SMs?

Ironhand
12-02-2007, 13:57
Silver Helms don't die real easy if you use them properly, but that's a moot point since that's not the kind of army Groksnag wants.

I agree with Stormbrow - go to asur.org. There's plenty of good advice on armybuilding to be had there.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
12-02-2007, 15:17
Just focus on getting and painting 2 strong units of spearmen.
And you said that you know nothing about the game-get and read the rulebook if you haven't already.
and do all high elves hate dark elves, cos if not, stay the hell away from them.

Groksnag
12-02-2007, 23:24
basically if the HE unit has a sword, I will very likely use it in a game. when swords are lacking though, i wont say no to a spear.

sulla
13-02-2007, 06:39
2 mages are always a good start to an elven army. If you really want shooting, take some, but any elven army will work fine with only minimal shooting; say for example just enough to frighten your opponent into leaving his wizards inside units rather than roaming around outside. I normally get by fine with just 5 reavers with bows. Even rbt's are generally overrated by HE players. 2 of them really won't do all that much damage in a game and they are very vulnerable to enemy missile, magic and artillery fire, not to mention flying units and tunnellers.

If you like swordmasters then you may want to look at the latest rules for eltharion (a decent infantry elf who takes away the 0-1 unit restriction on swordmasters). Also, bear in mind that HE are not a great infantry army so you will struggle to win your first few games. You may wish to research 'MSU' and 'MSE' tactics on google. They are probably your best bet for succeeding with infantry heavy elves. Good luck.

Sulla

the1stpip
13-02-2007, 08:16
In 2000 points, try a Lord on a Dragon. A lot of points, but my mate swears by them, and he doesn't lose very often...