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Gravier251
11-02-2007, 22:21
Okay, basically I was wondering if when fielding a Slann with the battle standard and including him within a temple guard unit (a placement you cannot turn down, for he must be within the unit, if one is present) and then placing him in the middle of the formation as his rules specially allow would he still get certain benefits from the standard?

a) It seems it may be unlikely that I will be able to gain the combat resolution bonus for the battle standard and unit banner as the Slann is not technically on the front line, or fighting in any way. A requirement stated on pg.82/83 of the Rulebook. So it seems I would not get the +1 for the battle standard being in the unit if this is the case.

b) However I am primarily concerned with the re-rolling break tests section, the rule that units within 12" re-roll failed break tests. However it states this ceases to apply if the bearer is "hiding at the back of the unit instead of fighting". Would the Slann's ability to position himself in the middle of the unit mean that he is not restricted by this clause or would he be unable to get the benefit as he is technically always hiding at the back of the unit?

I felt this combo would perhaps be a little too interesting to be true... A General exerting his leadership (cold-blooded) to all within 12" and allowing those within 12" to re-roll failed break tests on this leadership, not to mention the stubborn re-rollable unit he would be with...

Aelyn
11-02-2007, 22:45
I believe that the Slann's special rule allowing him to stay in the second rank is an exception to the rules, and allows the Battle Standard rules to apply even though he's not in the fighting rank. Unfortunately I can't find my LM book immediately to provide a reference for this.

NakedFisherman
11-02-2007, 23:54
Keep in mind that in order for a BSB to give his combat resolution bonus he must either be fighting or in the front rank of a unit. I don't know if the Slaan has a special rule that overrides that or not.

Jester007
12-02-2007, 05:17
The only time a Slann would be in the front rank is if there was no one around to protect him. I would think of him like the Skaven "lead from the rear" concept. Even though he is not in the front rank, he still gives his leadership to the unit he is with, the BSB still comes into play, and he can see out of his unit when in HtH. Its all due to the special rules that the Slann Gets.

Got Squig?

M_M
12-02-2007, 11:34
You don't get the bonus from the slann having the Battle standard, it is not in his special rules anywhere. you get the banners effect but not the +1CR. tho i would allow the Temple Guard to reroll break tests.

Haven't got my BRB but if they have nerf the BSB on the slann what a waste of points

Festus
12-02-2007, 14:03
Hi

tho i would allow the Temple Guard to reroll break tests.
All units within 12" may reroll Break tests using the Slaan's Army Standard. They may not use it only when the character has declined a challenge or when it is fleeing.

The CR bonus is a different kettle of fish, though, as it must be in the front rank or in a fighting position.
As I do not have the LM book, I don't know if this is explicitly superceded there.

Festus

Aelyn
12-02-2007, 16:12
Well, having checked the Lizardmen army book... It doesn't say one way or another. So by RAW, the Temple Guard can't use the Slann's Ld, get the +1 CR or anything like that.

However, the Army Book was written under 6th Ed rules, in which the BSB worked slightly differently. I expect that this error will be addressed in the next errata, and while I would not complain I would consider it unsportsmanlike if any opponent refused to allow me the benefits.

Jester007
12-02-2007, 20:45
So by RAW, the Temple Guard can't use the Slann's Ld,


The Slann would be the general, and if he's in the middle of the temple guard unit, I think the unit is within 12" of the Slann.

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EvC
12-02-2007, 21:50
Haven't got my BRB but if they have nerf the BSB on the slann what a waste of points

Considering the BS never gave that bonus in 6th edition, I am unable to see how that is considered a "nerf".

Given how stong a Slann can be within a unit, there's no reason to even consider letting him give +1 CR if you know the rules. Skaven lead from the back because they're cowardly creatures- Lizardmen are not.

A Slann doesn't give a +1 CR effect for exactly the same reason Beastmen can't rank up in rows of 5 models fighting units with small frontages. And why a Bat Swarm is still 65 points.

Aelyn
13-02-2007, 02:23
Considering the BS never gave that bonus in 6th edition, I am unable to see how that is considered a "nerf".

Given how stong a Slann can be within a unit, there's no reason to even consider letting him give +1 CR if you know the rules. Skaven lead from the back because they're cowardly creatures- Lizardmen are not.

A Slann doesn't give a +1 CR effect for exactly the same reason Beastmen can't rank up in rows of 5 models fighting units with small frontages. And why a Bat Swarm is still 65 points.
You mean because the rules were written for a slightly different gaming system, which has minor inconsistencies with the current system which result in odd-seeming rules questions?

EvC
13-02-2007, 12:31
Well, whatever you want to call it...

T10
13-02-2007, 14:40
Considering the BS never gave that bonus in 6th edition, I am unable to see how that is considered a "nerf".


It provided a bonus, it just didn't stack with regimental banners. Aynways - that was the year that was or something like that.

-T10

Gn0b
13-02-2007, 14:57
okay, question, does that mean that the slann would give them the bonus from any magic banner he has, his leadership, but not his CR?

I think that is perfectly fair, I just want to be sure.

Also, this may be off topic, but could a unit of temple gaurd theoretically have a magic banner (book says they can spend 50 points on one)and a slann carrying the BS?

Wings of Doom
13-02-2007, 15:55
...Yes. Although the two banners may not be the same.

EvC
13-02-2007, 17:16
It provided a bonus, it just didn't stack with regimental banners. Aynways - that was the year that was or something like that.

Thanks for that extraneous information there! ;) Yeah, the Battle Standard could give the +1 CR if there was no regimental banner, but just like now, it wouldn't count if it wasn't in the first rank. So still no nerf as it never would have applied (And indeed, was never "rectified" by an errata as Aelyn suggests might now happen), as I'm sure you're aware :)