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View Full Version : HE Heavy on infantry (2000 pts)



Noldo
12-02-2007, 16:55
How to improve this High Elf list? I do not want to go all cavalry, but I am little worried that this list might end up being too slow.

Characters
Shaniel, Archmage (4th level, Book of Hoeth, Lore of Death) (355 pt)
Dralek, Mage (2nd level, Dispell Scroll, Jewel of Dusk, Pure of Hearth) (165 pt)
Galthar, Commader (Heavy Armor, Battle Standard Bearer, Battle Banner) (179 pt)

Core
Spearelves x18 (Standard Bearer) (210 pt)
Spearelves x18 (Standard Bearer) (210 pt)
Archers x10 (120 pt)
Silver Helms x5 (Heavy Armor, Shield) (115 pt)

Special
Dragon Princes x6 (Standard Bearer, Banner of Sorcery) (224 pt)
Shadow Warriors x5 (75 pt)
Tiranoc Chariot (85 pt)
Swordmasters x11 (Champion, Musicant) (161 pt)

Rare
Repeating Bolt Thrower (100 pt)

Overview
Power Dice: 10-12
Dispell Dice: 5 + 1 Scroll
Models: 78
Units: 9

Deployment
Characters
Dralek goes with archers, Galthar is added in the chariot and Shaniel is deployed into Swordmasters.

Formation
Main battle line is formed with two spearblocks (6x3) with chariot between them. Flank next to the table edge is protected by the Swordmasters and the silver helms will go to the opposite flank.

Shadow Warriors are deployed scouting, while archers and RBT is deployed on the centre with Dragon Princes before them.

Makarion
12-02-2007, 17:45
While Silver Helms are a nice unit, I really doubt that 1 unit of 5 is going to hold a flank. They might combine well with the chariot though, but could use some assistance. Perhaps deploy the DragonPrinces near them.

I have never faced swordmasters before, but a unit of 11 (plus character) sounds like an invite to ranged casualties and uselessly low numbers once they engage in close combat.

Maybe exchange your archers (not quite useless, but hardly efficient use of points, either) to buff up your swordsmasters, or exchange both for a 3rd spearelf unit?

DesertDirge
12-02-2007, 20:08
yes.. you need to beef up the sword masters or they will never/shouldn't make it to combat.

Stouty
12-02-2007, 20:25
I can't give solutions due to a lack of HE knowledge, I can however present you with some problems (don't you just hate guys like me?)

-Archers are pants for your points. Beefing out spearmen or getting another repeater bolt thrower may well be better uses

-Musicians for all!

-That commander is going to die horribly. These days you can mount him on a barded warhorse for an extra 2 pips of save without getting targeted independently. Not bad

-5 silver helms should be thought as the equivilent to a detachment unit really. They flank and it hurts but they are pretty fragile.

-Swordmasters die fast with only a 5+ save and cost you a fair number of points. Could be used well as a flanker but will never be more than that. Again another detachment. Not so much bad but something to keep in mind.

-Shadow elves are nice models and have their place but can probably be ditched as excess weight.

-Champions preserve numbers, consider their addition

Sorry I can't be of better service.

Noldo
12-02-2007, 21:17
Idea is that both Silver Helms and Swordmasters work as flanking units for the spearelves, not actually trying to hold a flank of table all by themselves.

I have to think about archers. Usually I take them as 3rd core choice but since I have sufficient core even without them, a RBT would probably work better. That would leave me with 20 extra points to spend (and no place for my mage). That would just buy me barded horse for the BSB to put him into one spearelf unit.

About Shadow Warriors... the main body of the army is quite slow (movement 10), so having something that can harras enemy from the beginning seemed like a nice idea.

Overall, do you think that the current formation (main force is practically 12 models + chariot wide) takes too much space on the battlefield to be effective? Going to 20 spears would make the formation a bit shorter, but that requires more points.

Makarion
12-02-2007, 21:41
Youi'll have to consider whether you are trying to have your infantry outnumbers theirs, block for block, or not. Which means that you'll have to consider your regular opponents.

More than likely, the following armies will have infantry blocks that outnumber yours: Skaven, Goblins, Empire, Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts. Against the following you'll probably be on equal footing: most chaos armies, Lizardmen, Dwarves, Dark Elves, Bretonnians. And against these you'll actually outnumber them: Wood Elves, Daemonic Chaos, Ogres.

So, if you feel that the above doesn't look good, increase your spearmen blocks in size (24 would be nice, in a 6*4 formation).

And I agree with one of the above posters: at least your cavalry needs musicians, and full command is a strong consideration for the spearmen. You flanking units should not have any command, though, since they are basically intended as sacrificial units. Be wary of the panic they cause though, they aren't quite the same as regular (Empire) detachments.

As a result of all the above, I would personally use an extra unit of Silver Helms instead of the Swordmasters and exchange the archers for an extra RBT - that was a good call. Any extr apoints should go towards command, as mentioned.

Teach
13-02-2007, 10:00
Maybe two eagles would be better instead of the archers. Fluf wise the banner of sorcery is more for your swordmasters.

enyoss
13-02-2007, 13:06
I'd drop the Battle Banner. The guy carrying it wears practically nothing more than his boxer shorts to do so, and is just asking to be tonked. I'd go for Armour of the Gods and Sword of Might on your Battlestandard instead. His 3 S6 attacks (mostly striking first) should kill enough enemy to help reduce your own casualties. This means that instead of just getting +D6 combat result you can generate a similar bonus through creating (theirs) and preventing (yours) casualties. You save 30+ pts to boot (as you don't have to arm him at all)!

I'd cannibalize one of the spearmen units to bolster the other unit to 24/25, and then use the remaining points on extra guys and a champion for the swordmasters.

I'd also drop the shadow warriors to get another chariot but I don't see that as essential.

To go against the usual advice, I'd keep the archers. I find they are good at getting rid of annoying things you don't want to waste your RBT on, like fanatics. Also, if you follow the rest of my advice you'll need them to make up your core selection.

Hope that helps :).

Cheers,

enyoss

EDIT: Oh yeah, definitely upgrade you command groups.

Von Wibble
13-02-2007, 13:59
Ignore teach on the banner opf sorcery - this item should be given to a unit that won't be vulnerable to being wiped out by a charge. Dragon Princes, thanks to their armour, are the best choice there.

I second Enyoss' points. But a possible alternative to losing 1 unit of spearmen would simply be to drop the swordmasters in order to get more spears. Use the points saved by changing your army standard as suggested above to get an Eagle.