PDA

View Full Version : Marks, characters and marauders (Chaos)



Mangosta
12-02-2007, 21:51
Hi guys!

We are having a big discussion in ower local group about Chaos characters joining units without any marks (like marauders), so the questions is (ex)

Can a Hero with the mark of Khorne join to a unit of marauders? and why?

I will aprresiate any help.

Thanks!;)

Irakaz
12-02-2007, 22:08
Yes, because the unit of marauders has no mark. Marked characters cannot join marked units except those of the same mark. p46 HoC book

Some people also argue that chaos characters can join unmarked special choices from the Beasts of chaos book. Including centigors (wishes for an actual centigor character :cries: )

TheWarSmith
12-02-2007, 22:16
Let's NOT get into the "centigors+aspiring champion" debate, as there's already another thread about whether BoC specials count as "beasts" or just "beasts of chaos".

Short answer is yes, characters can join marauders, and it can be a great idea to give marauders some UMPH!

TheDarkDaff
13-02-2007, 05:11
The confusion comes from a change of wording between the Hordes of Chaos book and the Beasts of Chaos book. Hordes said you can only join units with the same mark while Beasts says you cannot join units with a different mark. The difference is very subtle but it is there. I say go with the newer wording and allow Characters to join unmarked units.

Just as a note their is a big difference between unmarked and undivided(which is a mark on it's own). Your Champion of Khorne can join a unit of Marauders but he can't join a unit of Undivided Chaos Warriors because he has a different mark(you'd be suprised by the number of people i pull up on this very point).

Edit: Please note this is wrong. Please stop quoting it(i even posted the correct rules below but for some reason you guys are ignoring them).

DeathlessDraich
13-02-2007, 09:15
Mark of Undivided is free and limited to Knights, Warriors, Chariots characters and 1 unit of Bestigors.
Marauders are unmarked.
It is debatable whether 'cannot join a unit with a different mark' precludes 'cannot join a unit with no mark'.

Warsmith: Perhaps you have an explanation to justify you answer.

Irakaz
13-02-2007, 11:47
The confusion comes from a change of wording between the Hordes of Chaos book and the Beasts of Chaos book. Hordes said you can only join units with the same mark while Beasts says you cannot join units with a different mark. The difference is very subtle but it is there. I say go with the newer wording and allow Characters to join unmarked units.

Im looking at the beast book p 60 and it says only characters with the same mark can join units.

TheDarkDaff
15-02-2007, 09:20
Each of the 5 Marks bestows its benefits on the character, unit or chariot bearing it. The Mark affects all models in the unit and only characters bearing the same Mark can join the unit/ride in the chariot.The more i read this the less sure i become. It could be read a few ways but for me it seems the restriction is on who can join the unit/ride the chariot as opposed to who the character can join. That said the wording is loose enough that you could say that if a Character joins an unmarked unit then the entire unit is affected by the mark. For example if My Khornate Lord joins a unit of Marauders then the entire unit will become affected by the mark and suffer from frenzy but would still only generate 1 dispel dice(as there is still only 1 mark).

DeathlessDraich
15-02-2007, 09:45
The more i read this the less sure i become.

I know that feeling:D I certainly cannot decide one way or the other.

jullevi
15-02-2007, 14:52
The confusion comes from a change of wording between the Hordes of Chaos book and the Beasts of Chaos book. Hordes said you can only join units with the same mark while Beasts says you cannot join units with a different mark. The difference is very subtle but it is there. I say go with the newer wording and allow Characters to join unmarked units.

Hordes of Chaos doesn't say that. The rule is actually:


The Mark affects all models in the unit and only characters bearing the same Mark can join the unit/ride the chariot.

If you read it carefully you should notice that the rule only applies to units with Mark. "Units with Mark can only be joined by characters with the same Mark" is different from "characters can only join units with the same Mark". The first one is the actual rule (which is identical in both armybooks btw), the second one is a rule that doesn't exist at all! Marked characters are given no restrictions, which means that they can join units without mark as normal.

The confusion about joining rules comes usually from assuming that the rule applies to marked characters, which is false. The rule applies to marked units.

Festus
15-02-2007, 17:19
Hi
If you read it carefully you should notice that the rule only applies to units with Mark. "Units with Mark can only be joined by characters with the same Mark" is different from "characters can only join units with the same Mark".
Perfect. Just perfect.

And correct...

Festus

TheDarkDaff
16-02-2007, 01:32
If you read it carefully you should notice that the rule only applies to units with Mark.The rule says nothing about it applying to units with the Mark but that it apply's to the Mark itself. It never qualifies that only Unit Marks apply to the whole unit. Just that the Mark(be it a Unit, Character or Chariot Mark) applies to all models in the unit. I personally don't believe this is what was meant by the rule but it is what the rule says happens.



Each of the 5 Marks bestows its benefits on the character, unit or chariot bearing it. The Mark affects all models in the unit and only characters bearing the same Mark can join the unit/ride in the chariot. This is exactly as written in both books. Please feel free to point out where it says only Unit Marks affect the whole unit. I am not saying this is how it should or was meant to work but it is what the rules say



"Units with Mark can only be joined by characters with the same Mark" is different from "characters can only join units with the same Mark". The first one is the actual rule (which is identical in both armybooks btw), the second one is a rule that doesn't exist at all! Marked characters are given no restrictions, which means that they can join units without mark as normal.

The confusion about joining rules comes usually from assuming that the rule applies to marked characters, which is false. The rule applies to marked units.
Please read my next post down(where i actually corrected what i said myself).There is no problem(most of the time) with a Marked Character joining an unmarked Unit. The only exception i can think of is if you want 2 characters with different marks to join the unmarked unit.

Festus
16-02-2007, 07:01
Each of the 5 Marks bestows its benefits on the character, unit or chariot bearing it. The Mark affects all models in the unit and only characters bearing the same Mark can join the unit/ride in the chariot.

Unit here is either a character, a unit of troops, or a chariot.

Where is the problem then?

If a unit has a Mark and a character joins it, both have had the same Mark to start with, so no problem at all, as both will benefit from the Mark even when joined.

When an unmarked unit is joined by a character (with whichever Mark), the character will still benefit from the Mark - and the unit still is unmarked and thus not affected by a Mark. See how the quote only speaks about Marked units, so this is all it applies to.

Festus

Mangosta
17-02-2007, 05:36
Well, thanks guys!
it's still a hard discucion but this topic can help my local group to get an answerd