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Weapon
13-02-2007, 06:51
I have been out of the game for a few years, after disinterest in my group, and a pitiful Skaven army. I have since gotten back into the game with the same group starting to play, but unfortunately, they had a better "base army" built from previous years to work with, so I decided to start from scratch with Tomb Kings. My main opponents are my brother, with a pretty varied Lizardmen army, which could be tough, but I think I can beat. My friend plays alot of Nightgoblins, with some orcs and war machines thrown in for good measure. Not my biggest threat, but his brother runs Dwarves.

These guys have decimated any of the other armies that he has played of our group (my own mediocre skaven notwithstanding). The main problem is his artillery, the cannon, combined with his Crossbowmen and gunners. My army consists of a battalion box (16 regular warriors and 16 archers, or 20/12, depending on how I feel, 8 light horsemen, 3 chariots, 1 tomb king, 2 liche priests, 1 mounted) and 3 Carrion. What kind of setup should I go with against him? I will most likely use most of my units, if not all, and I am mainly looking for what to aim for, how to flank. I haven't had many games against my friends lately, so I'm a bit rusty, and I don't have much cavalry experience, being a Skaven player.

The dwarves, by the way, break down into one unit of warriors, one unit of gunners, one of crossbowmen, one unit of miners, one cannon, and the 2 heroes that come in the Skull Pass set, a thane and a slayer. We are playing 6th edition rules.

I know its a lot of info, but I want to be thorough. Thanks for any help.

Weapon
13-02-2007, 07:11
Also, a Tomb Scorpion would be a possibility, if it would perform better than the Carrion at getting to the opponents war machines (in this case, the cannon). But I don't know if I want to put my eggs in that basket with the chance it may not come up, since I would only have resources to purchase one, for now.

Weapon
13-02-2007, 08:13
After reading a bit about the army, it seems that a Tomb Scorpion seems to be almost MANDATORY, at least above Carrion. I guess the probability of ICFB failing is low enough that its worth it, or am I wrong?

Chiron
13-02-2007, 08:26
nope, scorpions are gold

it has 2 drawbacks, ITCFB can go wrong and its not US4, other than that its an excellent warmachine killer and the thing I dread facing the most.

Its also not to shabby if you field it untunnelled as well, if you flank charge into something in support of another unit it'll do quite well. Also got a long charge range so its good for dealing with fast cavalry or skirmishers

Weapon
13-02-2007, 08:34
nope, scorpions are gold

it has 2 drawbacks, ITCFB can go wrong and its not US4, other than that its an excellent warmachine killer and the thing I dread facing the most.

Its also not to shabby if you field it untunnelled as well, if you flank charge into something in support of another unit it'll do quite well. Also got a long charge range so its good for dealing with fast cavalry or skirmishers

So, from what I am getting, it probably trumps carrion. Considering that against the Dwarves, the ITFB ability is probably the most useful, getting to the pesky cannon, and maybe rear charging a unit. I will probably go with a scorp then.

But what kind of configuration should I go with my units, like setup wise? Where should archers be and stuff like that.

Chiron
13-02-2007, 09:01
archers arent to great against dwarfs, there hitting and wounding on 5's and they are saving on a 4+ usually

try and keep your units out of reach of flank shots, go for chariots and skeletons with HW&S, catapults can be useful as well if they get hit they can be regenerated as long as theres at least 1 crewman left

against dwarfs its best to either go all out with magic to get around his runepriests or just go for units led by Tomb Kings and Princes with 1 LP to ignore his dispel dice

if he's doing a proper castle formation aim for 2-3 scorpions and try and time charges so you can take on his units from both sides, or whittle his main units down while the scorpions/swarms eat his warmachines and give you a clearer run towards his lines

Weapon
13-02-2007, 09:12
archers arent to great against dwarfs, there hitting and wounding on 5's and they are saving on a 4+ usually

try and keep your units out of reach of flank shots, go for chariots and skeletons with HW&S, catapults can be useful as well if they get hit they can be regenerated as long as theres at least 1 crewman left

against dwarfs its best to either go all out with magic to get around his runepriests or just go for units led by Tomb Kings and Princes with 1 LP to ignore his dispel dice

if he's doing a proper castle formation aim for 2-3 scorpions and try and time charges so you can take on his units from both sides, or whittle his main units down while the scorpions/swarms eat his warmachines and give you a clearer run towards his lines

Keep in mind, the only units I have available are those that I posted. I can't get alot of scops or a catapult. We are trying to keep it 1K or lower in our matches. Usually lower.

Cragspyder
13-02-2007, 12:29
On the plus side, you should do alright vs the Night Goblins.... lots of fear tests on LD 6 or something like that isn't too healthy for him. Unless he took an Orc General to shore up his leadership. You won't be outnumbering that much for the auto break though....

Just make sure your chariots don't get hit by fanatics :)

Bloodknight
13-02-2007, 14:40
TK are not good at under 1750 points, keep that in mind. They actually become really competitive when they reach the 2K mark.
As for your question: buy a catapult and either a 4th carrion or at least one Tomb scorpion. You wonŽt regret any of these.
The points for these can be gotten by not using the unusually sucking Skeleton light horse and some archers.

As for tactics: remember that TK chariots are not really strong and will lose at least against the dwarves if they assault the enemyŽs front.

Makarion
13-02-2007, 14:46
From what I've seen, your 32 skeletons are unlikely to be enough - you need 2 blocks. Whether you build one of them as archers is secondary, but please consider a box of skeletons as much as a scorpion (which is very good).

Then again, at 1,000 points, you will struggle to create *any* viable TK army. I'm sorry, but at anything under 1,250 or so they are very much a sub-par army, among the weakest of all due to their reliance on magic and their character requirements.

Given what you have to work with, let's see....


Tomb Prince. Chariot, Enchanted Shield, light armour, spear, Vambraces o/t Sun
Liche Priest. Hieratic Jar, Cloak of the Dunes.
Liche Priest. Horse.

(You'll need two LP anyway to overcome static DD, and against dwarves even that may not be enough)

28 skeleton warriors with light armour and shield. Banner. (plus mounted LP)
5 skeleton light cavalry (cheap marchblockers, and you own the models)
3 chariots. (plus TP)

Tomb Scorpion.


I wish there were room for a second block of skeletal warriors, but there isn't - this is 999 points I believe. If you drop the cavalry you can go for 22 warriors with hw & shield (plus mounted LP, in 6*4), and 15 bowmen. I don't see how you can squeeze more out of it, I'm afraid.

Good luck, and don't get discouraged! Tomb Kings are a very flavourful army in my opinion, and they have their own secret little tricks that will start to shine the closer you get to 2,000 points.

Goq Gar
13-02-2007, 15:49
Watch out for the Saurus Cav, nasty blighters. I would know, I use them all the time. :D

By the way, you might want to feed up your men! They're all skin and bones!

Weapon
13-02-2007, 18:43
Watch out for the Saurus Cav, nasty blighters. I would know, I use them all the time. :D

By the way, you might want to feed up your men! They're all skin and bones!

Hehe.

Well, I see where you are all coming from, and I will just have to depend on my opponent hopefully making bad decisions or die rolls getting away from him. For now, thats all I can do. Later on, I'll get some more Skellies and a Catapult, that will be next on my list.

Also, should I put my Tomb Prince in one of the Chariots?

Makarion
13-02-2007, 18:55
The TP can have his own chariot, but that would in addition to the minimum unit size of a chariot troop. E.g., he'd be the 4th chariot (or the 6th, if you want a rank). Not a bad thing, mind.

Weapon
13-02-2007, 19:49
The TP can have his own chariot, but that would in addition to the minimum unit size of a chariot troop. E.g., he'd be the 4th chariot (or the 6th, if you want a rank). Not a bad thing, mind.

Ah, thats good to know. So I would have to have 3 normal chariots to add his chariot to a unit, correct?

Bloodknight
13-02-2007, 19:50
Except if cannons are involved. I learned to appreciate TK characters on foot.

edit: you could even play his chariot alone, but if you want him to join a unit, youŽll have to buy at least 3. A good thing to create lots of combat resolution with a TP is not to take the flaming chariot, but the Flail of Skulls. That way you can run into an enemy unit, challenge the champion and beat 6 CR out of him with the Prince alone and kill heroes with one wound. If he rejects, just do the normal damage on the unit. With 3 other chariots that should be enough to break most units.

Weapon
13-02-2007, 21:04
Except if cannons are involved. I learned to appreciate TK characters on foot.

edit: you could even play his chariot alone, but if you want him to join a unit, youŽll have to buy at least 3. A good thing to create lots of combat resolution with a TP is not to take the flaming chariot, but the Flail of Skulls. That way you can run into an enemy unit, challenge the champion and beat 6 CR out of him with the Prince alone and kill heroes with one wound. If he rejects, just do the normal damage on the unit. With 3 other chariots that should be enough to break most units.

Nice ideas, but I am with you on the Cannon thing, having a big target in my general isn't too great against a flank of guns and a cannon, eh? Hehe.

Thanks for all these suggestions. I don't expect to be a great army right away, but I hope to get a basic army together, so I can finally catch up to where my friends are, as they kind of had a jump on it while I've been away at college, since one of my friends dropped out of college, the other is my young High school brother, and the other is the other guys young High school brother. Guess I have to sacrifice SOMETHING for education!

Tutore
13-02-2007, 21:11
I don't think you'll be competitive against dwarves without a tomb scorpion or two, or at least some swarm. You also need more infantry skellies. The archers won't do a wound, keep it in mind, and the light cavalry won't create much problem to a dwarf player. Also chariots (S4) won't do that much.

Weapon
13-02-2007, 21:15
I don't think you'll be competitive against dwarves without a tomb scorpion or two, or at least some swarm. You also need more infantry skellies. The archers won't do a wound, keep it in mind, and the light cavalry won't create much problem to a dwarf player. Also chariots (S4) won't do that much.

Like I said, I'll be getting more eventually, and I don't expect to get too competitive right off the bat, I just wanted some pointers. I will be opting for a Tomb Scorpion over the Carrion, since they seem to be the preferred war machine killer.

My setup will look something like a Tomb Prince, 2 Priests (one mounted), 3 Chariots, 8 horsemen, 20 infantry w spears, 12 with bows, and a Tomb Scorpion.

Where do you usually run a mounted Liche priest? With a unit, without? I am pretty sure the one on foot would be my Hierophant, and I would keep him screened with my units, and the more agressive mage would be my mounted one.