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Baaltharus
13-02-2007, 20:51
I'm furious because tonight while attending veterans night I was told I couldnt play AI in a GW store despite AI being a GW owned product. After buying around 60 quids worth of stuff on the reasonable assumption (I thought) that I could play a GW game in GW store. I'm incandescent about this outrage. I'm thinking about demanding a full money refund from head office because BS like this can't be tolerated.

Al.

Huw_Dawson
13-02-2007, 21:09
Gotta love dumb GW managers.

The problem is, AI is a forge world game. Therefore, it's not really a specialist game like necromunda or mordheim, or a standard game like Warhammer. Did he give you a reason other than "because I said so"?

- Huw

mattjgilbert
13-02-2007, 21:15
Hmmm, doesn't sound good for a vets night. What room do they have for gaming? Is it just the store itself (in which case space is a premium for the "core" games) or do they have a larger dedicated games room? If the latter I don't really understand why they would not want it played.

Baaltharus
13-02-2007, 21:16
Its not an official GW product/game (despite being owned and maintained by GW). All the other staff members agreed that it was beyond stupid but the manager wasnt for budging. Does this mean I can't use my AI thunderhawk in epic?

I think the whole things such a bunch of ****!

Al.

Baaltharus
13-02-2007, 21:21
Hmmm, doesn't sound good for a vets night. What room do they have for gaming? Is it just the store itself (in which case space is a premium for the "core" games) or do they have a larger dedicated games room? If the latter I don't really understand why they would not want it played.

Its the store itself but it was early on and no one else was using the table, further more lots of people were wanting to see it being played and about half the store went up to complain to the manager throughout the night.

I'm seriously considering asking for a total refund for all the products I've bought but now can't use. That or an apology and change to GW in store gaming policy.

Al.

Wintermute
13-02-2007, 21:23
While I don't agree with what happened, I can understand their reasoning.

AI is,as we know, a FW product. It is not available via GW shops but only available from FW. Therefore, why should the store allow a game which they do not sell or support to be played at Vets night?

Try and see it from the store's point of view. It doesn't generate them any sales.

Bloodknight
13-02-2007, 21:33
Still, itīs not a good idea for GW as the GW group. If people hear that they cannot play their game why should they even buy it? Especially when it comes to people who have to play outside their homes.

Baaltharus
13-02-2007, 21:33
And yet they sell, epic, BFG, mordheim, all of which can be played instore. As well as this, they sell other FW products such as the Taros campaign book instore. No where did it say AI wouldnt be allowed in GW stores and the whole things an outrage.

Al.

Wintermute
13-02-2007, 21:37
Specialist Games products and the FW Books can be obtained by GW stores and sold by them in-store. Can AI? If not, this may (Note MAY) explain the policy of the store manager towards AI.

Please note I'm not for one second defending his actions.

Baaltharus
13-02-2007, 21:41
Well techically any FW product can be obtained via GW by order form. Wasn't having a go at you Wintermute but I'm bloody annoyed about this. I'm gonna kick up hell about this come tomorrow.

Al.

jfrazell
13-02-2007, 21:45
You won't get a refund. I suggest you get those you know, leave loudly and never return.

ml2sjw
13-02-2007, 21:47
From teh forge world website

"About Us Forge World is part of Games Workshop based in Nottingham, England. We have our own team controlling the design, manufacturing, shipping, sales and customer service of the ever growing range of Forge World models."

and


Q1. Is Forge World part of Games Workshop.

A1. Yes, but we operate as a small (but, perfectly formed) seperate division from the company that makes and sells the main Games Workshop range of products. We are not connected with the US company that used the same name many years back for production of resin WH40K vehicles under licence.

and look on the uk home page under other GW sites what do we have "forge world"

Of and what did my local gw used to stock was it AI books..... Yes it was Hmm whats this in the online store, gw only sell gw products not those of other companies... http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=60710199028&orignav=10


Hmm the evidence seems damning. But then store managers always were power obsessed and badly informed when i went to them

Baaltharus
13-02-2007, 21:51
I don't really want a refund, I want an oppertunity to use the models I've bought. I simply want to make a point.

Al.

cookiescrumble
13-02-2007, 21:56
We've already been told that we can't play it at Vets as it is not a GW game.

We are fed up with the middle finger that us vets are getting from GW, thats why we are now finding an alternative to Vets night.

Baaltharus
13-02-2007, 22:07
Who'd be willing to sign a petition in relation to this? Basically demanding a change of policy or a refund for products its now impossible to use for some people. The lack of fore warning about this is intolerable.

Al.

jfrazell
13-02-2007, 22:21
Sorry but petitions are meaningless. Do you play other games at this GW store? If so, inform them that evidently your custom does not matter.

Send a letter (a real letter) to GW, noting the store, the custom and that you won't be buying any more AI because of it. Thank them in advance for saving you money in the future.

Baaltharus
13-02-2007, 22:28
While I can see the point of it not only will I not be able to play the game but I'll be out of pocket. Surely putting pressure on them to change policy or loose money from AI going from huge success to plummeting failure would be a more useful tactic?

Al.

Bloodknight
13-02-2007, 22:46
Petitions, especially online petitions donīt work. Send stuff via Snail Mail to them, thatīs more likely to be read.

Sgt_Hudson
13-02-2007, 22:48
Ring head office and complain i garentee that the next vets night you will be playing ai when ever you want

Tyra_Nid
13-02-2007, 23:29
Im not surprised. GW has always been fairly limiting as to what games can be played in their area. AI, as others have mentioned, isnt really a 'proper' GW game, its an (almost) completely different system.

And the clicker bases might lead kids to the Dark Side of Clix(?) games by WizKids :p (Mechwarrior, those Fantasy minis, etc)

But really, if you want freedom in what games to play, join (or create!) a good club. Faaaaar better option, you can give up the tyrants at GW forever. Ive never looked back!

(Seriously, did you EXPECT GW to be logical or reasonable?)

Baaltharus
14-02-2007, 00:09
Well I was part of a club for a good number of years and I ran it myself for some of that time. However, with Uni I no longer have the time or resources so going into GW is one of the few times I can get to play.

Al.

Cherrystone
14-02-2007, 00:23
The AI book has the GW logo on its spine, dosnt that make it a GW product.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
14-02-2007, 00:41
I'm furious because tonight while attending veterans night I was told I couldnt play AI in a GW store despite AI being a GW owned product. After buying around 60 quids worth of stuff on the reasonable assumption (I thought) that I could play a GW game in GW store. I'm incandescent about this outrage. I'm thinking about demanding a full money refund from head office because BS like this can't be tolerated.

Al.

So play it at home. If your Vet enough to play a specialist game, surely you can build your own board.

Also, GW stores don't stock the Book, as they don't stock the models......

Brushmonkey
14-02-2007, 00:49
Which store was it?

Slekith
14-02-2007, 00:51
I don't see any problem. GW stores main purpose is to support their main line of products those being Warhammer, 40k and LOTR.

Half Eldar
14-02-2007, 01:53
Does IA stuff from Forgeworld using the IA books get played at that store?
I would mail a letter to the store, first off, and then I would call the next level up wherever you are.

I have to say, if there was extra space AND people wanted to see it out, it is pretty bad to disallow it.

Since part of why GW stuff costs so much is the relatively large infrastructure it has to maintain, you should be able to use GW products at all GW stores. As far as I am concerned, this would be akin to buying your computer at Future Shop and taking it to another one for repair, and they refuse you, even if you had yours under warranty and it was legit.

The WHOLE POINT of GW stores is so that customers can have standardisation and a definate venue to play what they buy. Otherwise, there really is no purpose for consumers to bother with GW stores at all.

@ MDG:
There are plenty of us who are missing one or more of the following, which would be helpful in modelling our own tables: time, ventilation, space, talent, and probably money (although since making terrain is a lot cheaper than buying models, I do not really see that latter being a valid problem).

GW Stores also do not stock Dark Eldar, does that mean you are to be disallowed from playing them? Though, because I try to be fair, other than one particular Bunker location I do not think I have seen stores from which you can order in FW stuff.

swordwind
14-02-2007, 01:54
The AI book has the GW logo on its spine, dosnt that make it a GW product.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Palatine Katinka
14-02-2007, 02:51
Not all GW managers are power mad despots as they ALWAYS get portrayed as/accussed of being on these forums. Some are decent people, trying to do a job, with a string of superiors to impress or at least not antagonise. At my store Aeronautica was played for the first couple of weeks since it became available but the hype has died down and people have gone back to playing other games. Stores in America seem to be quite different from those in the UK. Here we can't get Forgeworld through stores, only Imperial Armour books. On the other hand we do have Dark Eldar! That and blue shirts not red.

Don't send a petition, they aren't friendly. A personal letter (even if of complaint) will have a better result.

Unless the manager in question is frequently out of order, bear in mind that he may be getting pressure from above about it. Happened at my local with Specialist Games, lots of people playing Bloodbowl until the manager put a stop to it. A lot of people blamed him but he was just doing what he'd been told he had to do. Put a stop to it and encourage the main games more. Ironically a local club was formed by the members of the BB league and the manager got congratulated for helping create a new club! By now everyone concerned has got over it and got used to the situation. The occasional game of something different is accepted as long as it doesn't start to take over the whole store.

GW is staffed by many people with many opinions as to what is right. At what level a decision on store policy is made is often a mystery. Consider the Imperial Eagle, two heads, facing different directions, one of them is blind. ;)

orangesm
14-02-2007, 03:52
I think the biggest conflict is in whether or not I can use Forgeworld kits (Terminators, Death Korps, Elysians, etc) in a GW store that does not allow AeroImp. If Elysians and Death Korps are allowed - why can I not play AeroImp?

What about heavily converted models that are largely plasticard (tanks like a 40k scale Ragnarok (http://medusav.us.games-workshop.com/hobby/painting/vostroyan5th/2.htm))? Can those not be used?

These are the kind of follow on questions that I think should be asked if games like Aeronautica Imperialis or SG games are not allowed in a GW store - what about the stuff that can be used in 40k or Fantasy but is not sold in the store?

fattdex
14-02-2007, 04:32
I think the problem they have with playing the game in store is that people will come up to the counter wanting to buy it and will be turned away because they can't sell it, whereas they can sell any amount of other 40k junk to kids curious about what they see on the other tables. It's just how they work. I suggest joining a private gaming club, I'd never be caught dead going to a GW store to play (plus my wife would disown me), at a club you can do whatever you please.

mattjgilbert
14-02-2007, 10:21
So many people wanting to see it played = many potential customers for terrain, paints, tools and.... epic stuff via mail order in store :eek: People might even start getting into other game system like epic and even buying flyers to use in 40K! Shock, horror!

Sounds like the manager needs to lighten up a little.

Spacker
14-02-2007, 10:40
This is why I don't play at GW stores - I'd rather play at the local club, my house, or a friend's house, where we can play what we want when we want and not be dictated to by corporate policy. The local GW store has staff that have started playing AI too, but they can't play in store - it's crazy.

CaptainSenioris
14-02-2007, 10:49
I got to play it at vet's night for a couple of weeks, I was then told there had been a manager's meeting and it had been brought up for disscussion. The long and short of it is that it was decided that A.I. should not be played in store anymore.

All I can say is at least I have a nearby club which I can play it at, with decent epic terrain too. I feel sorry for anyone who has no-where that they can play it. I did manage to get a lot of people into it through loads of demo games though, which is a plus.

I don't really see GW changing it's policies for vet's nights other than placing more restrictions on them, so my advice would be either to find a club that suits your needs or to start one that does.

Jesse Custer
14-02-2007, 11:13
Baaltharus, even if I respectfully understand your point and disapointment.


Well I was part of a club for a goodd number of years and I ran it myself for some of that time. However, with Uni I no longer have the time or resources so going into GW is one of the few times I can get to play.
you can't really blame GW for your assumption that you would be able to play in store with this game.

And specifically the fact you don't have many places to play...
GW isn't responsible for your life and/or personal situation.


The WHOLE POINT of GW stores is so that customers can have standardisation and a definate venue to play what they buy. Otherwise, there really is no purpose for consumers to bother with GW stores at all.
Yeah right...
What about finding the most extended range?
What about finding staff who do play the games and paint?
What about the services provided?
Etc, etc...

Greblord
14-02-2007, 11:33
Baaltharus
I'd find another place to play games, tbh
GW is not the be-all and end-all of gaming - there are plenty of clubs out there.

mattjgilbert
14-02-2007, 11:50
Where are you based Baaltharus? Someone might know a club you can try out.

Half Eldar
14-02-2007, 11:56
What about finding the most extended range?
What about finding staff who do play the games and paint?
What about the services provided?
Etc, etc...

Unless you are a Dark Eldar player, for example. Granted, GW stores can order them in for you, but then so can indies that stock them.

I have yet to find an indie store that stocks gaming stuff where nobody plays it - and I have been to GWs where WHFB was run as a demo using 40k rules while three of their new fellows read the rules. Might be different where other people live, I suppose, or perhaps they have certain staff only in on certain days.

Erm, what services? I can... play games there? Oh wait, only certain games.
Hrm. I can... paint? Well, okay, if there is enough store space. And I guess I cannot paint my Tau Barracuda. Exactly the same goes for an indie.
I can... talk about non-GW products? Oops, nix that, there is only the GW hobby.
I can bring food and drink ins... nope.
I can chat with the manager/owner about bringing in a new g... hmm.
The employee turnover is low so you can form a rappo... no.
Managers do not get moved around every little so oft... err, right. (Granted, maybe this is just the one store in particular I keep referring to)


As an aside, I would actually be interested in seeing a gaming store where the staff neither play nor paint. It would either be a phenomenal success, or a drastic failure, is my guess.

But yes, if it is a case of 'you cannot play it here because we do not sell it and we would like to reserve the space for stuff we do sell' then are other items from Forgeworld not allowed?

Or, if it came down from on high and the manager was not simply being stubborn (which is actually not unlikely) then I would at least expect to be told that. Maybe GW has a contract where it says managers have to get the angry end of the customer for upper level policy decisions and not be able to explain themselves.

Sai-Lauren
14-02-2007, 12:18
I think the problem they have with playing the game in store is that people will come up to the counter wanting to buy it and will be turned away because they can't sell it, whereas they can sell any amount of other 40k junk to kids curious about what they see on the other tables. It's just how they work.

Answer:
"Well, we don't stock it ourselves, as it's produced by one of our offshoot companies and we are unable to justify maintaining levels of their products in our stores, but we can order it in for you if you'd like..."

GW gets more money (and an even better reputation for customer care), and customer gets what they want - all be it a week or so later.

Jesse Custer
14-02-2007, 12:45
If you wanna play silly...


Do you find extended range in all other types of games stores?
No
Is there painting table and painting lessons available in all indie stores?
No
Are all staff from indies retailer do play GW games?
No
etc...

That was the answer to your view about
Otherwise, there really is no purpose for consumers to bother with GW stores at all.
But yeah right, not being able to bring food in GW store is a reeaaaaaaaal clever argument.

idinos
14-02-2007, 12:59
Erm, what services? I can... play games there? Oh wait, only certain games.
Hrm. I can... paint? Well, okay, if there is enough store space. And I guess I cannot paint my Tau Barracuda. Exactly the same goes for an indie.
I can... talk about non-GW products? Oops, nix that, there is only the GW hobby.
I can bring food and drink ins... nope.


1) So, what exactly would you expect to do in a GW store, run and paid for by GW? Play Warmachine? Play FoW? I don't know, am I the only one to whom playing only GW games in a GW shop makes some sort of sense? Unless of course you are claiming that if PP opened up shops then it would allow you to play 40k there, on the tables they paid for, instead of playing Warmachine? Yes, that makes sense, really...

2) Well, if there isn't enough store space then what do you want them to do? Throw their stock out so you have enough space to paint?

3) I don't know where you live, but there is a thing called freedom of speech and I highly doubt that this is not applied in GW. Do they gag you when you enter their store or send you to Siberia if you mention another game? I doubt it.

4) You might find that this is the case in a number of shops. Unless of course you are the one cleaning the mess? Did you ask other people if they want to smell your food?

Anyway, these generalisations you make are so false they are not even funny. First of all, it is up to the management on what goes on in the store. For example, we can play AI in my local GW just fine. I have played Warhammer Historical using another company's figures in a battle bunker just fine.

I can bring in and drink my coffee just fine, thank you. Maybe even a muffin if I feel like it. What I cannot do is bring my enchilada or kebab in, however. It is a shop, not a restaurant.

I can talk about Warmachine, or FoW, or anything I want in a GW shop, I mean, is your store located in 1950s Moscow or something? Do the employees stand over your shoulder and throw you out if you are talking about anything non-GW related? This is so preposterous it is highly unbelievable.

You come across as a very spoiled and inconsiderate person, I mean seriously, have you ever asked anyone if they want to see you eating your smelly food when playing a game? And yes, GW forbid you from playing non-GW games in their stores, how dare they!

PS. It appears to be a manager case on AI, as I wrote above we can play it quite freely.

Baaltharus
14-02-2007, 13:19
[QUOTE]you can't really blame GW for your assumption that you would be able to play in store with this game.

And specifically the fact you don't have many places to play...
GW isn't responsible for your life and/or personal situation.

[QUOTE]

Oh I think I can and I will, you can use any other FW product instore and there was NO warning that AI would be banned from the stores.

I've made an official complaint to GW and waiting for a call back from one of the higher ups. Have to see how it pans out.

Al.

Chiron
14-02-2007, 13:25
GW's trying to stop people playing any specialist games in store at all according to the staff at my old store, they've even been told to stop people hanging out in store for a chat, they must either buy, paint or play or gtfo

bearing in mind this isnt a small store, its got 3 display tables, 4 tables to game on and capacity for about 10 decent sized tables on a vets night

[dice0]

Jesse Custer
14-02-2007, 13:36
Once again you made an assumption alone (why didn't you just ask the store manager?? It was as simple as that).


And specifically the fact you don't have many places to play...
GW isn't responsible for your life and/or personal situation.


Oh I think I can and I will,
:) :) :)


If you wanna pull out this argument:

Oh I think I can and I will, you can use any other FW product instore and there was NO warning that AI would be banned from the stores.
What, you can use Forgeworld models or scenary pieces designed for 40k & Battle? Is that your argument? Cool.
Is Aeronautica Imperialis a completely different game system than 40k & Battle or LOTR?
As you said yourself in your first post, you made an assumption.

And in my very limited english vocabulary, to be 'banned' means that there would have been a point that Aeronautica should have been taken into account into the night by the people who decide what can or cannot be played. Are you part of this category of people who do have the decision on what shoudl be played? No.

I agree it would be cool to be able to play a wider range of game sytems within GW stores, but your rant sounds more and more like whining.
Once again I may understand your frustration even if the way you express it seems childish.

But to be honest with you, I do appreciate that you took action by contacting GW if you felt 'they' made something 'wrong' towards you (it's better than to cry here).
I hope they would give you a good apology and provide a solution (even if they may not believe in it :))

mattjgilbert
14-02-2007, 14:38
So do the stores also stop you from say, reading novels published by black industries in store, an off-shoot company? Surely the staff cannot do this on their lunchbreak either then?

:angel:

I wonder what happened to the whole "we forgot our core market" thing...?

Jesse Custer
14-02-2007, 14:53
I thought it was a common interpretation that kids were the 'core market' and that GW stores were full of kids. ;)

Grimshawl
14-02-2007, 15:42
It all sounds like the usual idiotic Games Workshop shoot ourselves in the foot and **** off our customers way of doing buisiness. It amazes me that any company will go to these stupid lengths to create hard feelings and negative public relations amongst their customers. I mean really.

led571
14-02-2007, 16:14
best thing for you is not to jump onto major complants to head office or anything, talk to the normal staff in the store and find out who your regional manager is and write to him directly, your more likely going to get your problem sorted out and with little fuss. diffent stores seam to have different policys on this kind of matter, the manager probably just doesn't like the idea of it, get his staff excited and get them playing it then he prob join in.

Baaltharus
14-02-2007, 17:10
Talked to the manager directly (phoned me up after the complaint had been registered), he basically said he didnt want AI played instore because it would be very popular and ditract from the main line games and lose the store money. I understand his reasoning behind this but how can GW put out products they won't let you use? This incompany clash benefits neither the GW, FW or their customers.

Al.

Charax
14-02-2007, 17:20
I really don't think that should be an issue - you're only asking to play it on Vet's nights, and I bet they don't get that much business then anyway.

How on earth did he get your phone number? I hope it's because you gave it to him, and not that GW give out the personal details of their customers who complain to the people subject to those complaints, because there would be so much wrong with that...

Morph
14-02-2007, 17:54
Unfortunately for you it sounds like he's just doing his job. He's been told to ban AI by those high up, and can't risk allowing it. Your complaints are just being shunted back to him and he can't tell you anything.


But anyway, what are you doing playing games in a GW store for? Find a club!

Jesse Custer
14-02-2007, 18:42
Talked to the manager directly (phoned me up after the complaint had been registered), he basically said he didnt want AI played instore because it would be very popular and ditract from the main line games and lose the store money. I understand his reasoning behind this but how can GW put out products they won't let you use? This incompany clash benefits neither the GW, FW or their customers.
Cool for you!
It shows GW do care about you as a customer.
What you miss in the reasoning is that Forgeworld game isn't a "core game" or even part of Specialist AND doesn't really need to be promoted in store.
I'm glad he phoned you anyway.

mattjgilbert
14-02-2007, 18:54
The point about vets night is valid though. I completely understand they would not want this played at any other time to detract from the core games. But vets night is for people who are going to be spending the money on GW stuff no matter what; people who are already investing in the hobby and continue to do so. I don't understand the reasoning for not allowing it on a vets night.

Melchor
14-02-2007, 19:08
The 'problem' with GW stores and their staff is that they're geared towards the three core game (WFB, 40k and LOTR).
The staff is trained to be knowledgeable in those three games. Not in Specialist Games and FW games. They're not trained to properly support those games.

The SG and FW games are meant to be played at home or in a club. Not in GW stores.

Having said that, I can see why you're pissed. Just keep in mind what GW stores are for. The three core games and the occasional Specialist Game if you're lucky.

Thaiss
14-02-2007, 19:54
Stores of old used to let you book there tables in quiet parts of the day to play against staff or try a system you've not used before. why not try and see if the Manager of the store you went to would do this for you.
Vet's nights should include as much of the GW range as poss.

CENOBITE
14-02-2007, 20:12
The GW in the city center here even has an Imperial Navy Squadron and some Fighta Bommerz up for display.
Don't know if the actually do play the game there, but they promote it none the less.

Mouldsta
14-02-2007, 20:36
What I don't understand, if the concern was that it would be "too popular" then not do the sensible thing and have a 40K table, a WHFB table, a LOTR table, and a specialist games table? That way people can play AI, but it only uses up 1 table out of 4 (assuming you have 4), keeping most of the store free for the core games. On another note, having new games makes people go "ohhh" and be more interested, rather than seeing the same old stagnant blood angels vs dark angels. Steer that interest onto something you can sell in store, e.g. "yeah it's a nice little craft the lightning, but have you seen the 40K scale one? Wow that's awesome, over here in IA....", or "Yeah they're nice little planes and a good game, but the best part is they go really nicely in epic, and epic's an awesome game..."

Half Eldar
14-02-2007, 22:04
If you wanna play silly...

Do you find extended range in all other types of games stores?
No
Is there painting table and painting lessons available in all indie stores?
No
Are all staff from indies retailer do play GW games?
No
etc...

That was the answer to your view about
But yeah right, not being able to bring food in GW store is a reeaaaaaaaal clever argument.

Uh, yeah. So tell me exactly how that is not summed up by saying that point of a Games Workshop store is to stock a standard selection of goods along with a venue to play with those things you purchase? I suppose, if you want, you can add 'paint and yammer about' to play. This is essentially their service.

Now, maybe you live in some strange land where hobby stores are run by aloof business people and not by gamers, but by that token I live in some strange land where there is often not enough room to paint at the Games Workshop store either.

So, to beat this point some more:

Is the extended range found at all GW stores? No
Is painting space found at all GW stores? No
Do all staff play all GW games? No

In light of this, what do you go to a Games Workshop store for? A guarantee that the GW products you bought, here or at another GW shop can be played, painted, and talked about at this shop here.

If GW has decided players are too dumb to play anything other than RAW, they ought to publish a rulebook for what can and cannot be done at a GW store. Of course, this will require an FAQ, and they will not publish one.

Melchor
14-02-2007, 22:10
@Mouldsta: Because most GW stores have barely enough room to accommodate the core games, let alone Specialist and FW ones.
Take my local store for example (GW Rotterdam). They can only just fit in three 4'x4' tables for introgames, which have to be turned into normal gaming tables if anyone wants to play a game.

kardos
14-02-2007, 22:13
Gotta love GW with and their customer service. (at one time it was great but has declined in the last few years)
i still dont understand why they wont let you play it. (i understand it is a FW game etc blah blah blah) but its a GW game none the less. Maybe the Manager is just a ass and needs to chill. i ordered some of the models myself (ORKS) and will be playing them with some friends at a local store.
My concern is since the Memphis Battle Bunker is nearby, does that mean i can't play with my models there? i certainly hope note. Its not like i am walking in with WARMACHINE or VOID or something made by antoher company.
All in all this just makes me sad that someone cant play with the models they purchased.

Half Eldar
14-02-2007, 22:27
1) So, what exactly would you expect to do in a GW store, run and paid for by GW? Play Warmachine? Play FoW? I don't know, am I the only one to whom playing only GW games in a GW shop makes some sort of sense? Unless of course you are claiming that if PP opened up shops then it would allow you to play 40k there, on the tables they paid for, instead of playing Warmachine? Yes, that makes sense, really...

2) Well, if there isn't enough store space then what do you want them to do? Throw their stock out so you have enough space to paint?

3) I don't know where you live, but there is a thing called freedom of speech and I highly doubt that this is not applied in GW. Do they gag you when you enter their store or send you to Siberia if you mention another game? I doubt it.

4) You might find that this is the case in a number of shops. Unless of course you are the one cleaning the mess? Did you ask other people if they want to smell your food?

Anyway, these generalisations you make are so false they are not even funny. First of all, it is up to the management on what goes on in the store. For example, we can play AI in my local GW just fine. I have played Warhammer Historical using another company's figures in a battle bunker just fine.

I can bring in and drink my coffee just fine, thank you. Maybe even a muffin if I feel like it. What I cannot do is bring my enchilada or kebab in, however. It is a shop, not a restaurant.

I can talk about Warmachine, or FoW, or anything I want in a GW shop, I mean, is your store located in 1950s Moscow or something? Do the employees stand over your shoulder and throw you out if you are talking about anything non-GW related? This is so preposterous it is highly unbelievable.

You come across as a very spoiled and inconsiderate person, I mean seriously, have you ever asked anyone if they want to see you eating your smelly food when playing a game? And yes, GW forbid you from playing non-GW games in their stores, how dare they!

PS. It appears to be a manager case on AI, as I wrote above we can play it quite freely.


1. Er, no. It makes perfect sense that a GW store will let you play GW games. What I am taking issue with is when a GW store will not let you play GW games in it.

2. No, but according to Mr. Custer, one cannot get painting space or lessons at independent stores, and my point is that this is not guaranteed at GW stores either.

3. Try walking in there and suggesting to someone they can get a cutting mat in the Walmart next door for $2.99 instead of what was, at the time I did this, $10 in Games Workshop. Even worse, (and I would say understandably, if not entirely justifiably) if you actually talk about other games. Freedom of speech is extremely messy and is not in fact universally applied in the western world, and in particular not when it comes to business establishments.

4. It is more of a pink herring than a red herring. I can and do eat and drink in the gaming area of the places I eat, unless someone asks me not to do so near their minis. Evidently some of us are capable of moving food from container to mouth without creating a mess. :eyebrows: Obviously, this allowance has all sorts of problems for when somebody does create a mess and refuses to clean it up, and is not there at all stores, independent or otherwise.

Anyway, you just contradicted yourself. It is indeed up to the management to define what goes on in their store, including what products are being discussed.

At the indie here, I can have my kebab AND eat it too, but obviously this is highly situational.

Wow, you must be in 1970s Paris, where anything goes. I am pleasantly surprised to know that there are GW stores where you can talk about their competitors.

And you come across as one who has missed the point of my claim - whether or not this was my failure or yours I suspect we will never agree on. My point is, if GW stores do not let you use products from their own company in their stores, then, if the supply situation at an independent store is similar, there is no purpose in going to the GW shop.

Let me reiterate:
1. GW stores do not stock the entire range of Games Workshop products. Yes, they can special order it for you, but so can an independent store if they order GW products.
2. You can paint in GW shops - assuming they have the room for it. Reasonable enough. The same goes for a comparable indie store.
3. You can only play games they sell - the independent store actually will likely have the same policy. It is also reasonable.
4. You (evidently) can talk about non-GW products in a GW store. I have found it otherwise. Presumably an independent might prohibit the same - except if their distributor carries it they can get it for you.

So, again, what are these 'services' above and beyond the standard range of GW products, that a GW store is good for? I already said it was good for that, but Mr. Custer thinks that there are services beyond that.

Half Eldar
14-02-2007, 22:30
Gotta love GW with and their customer service. (at one time it was great but has declined in the last few years)
i still dont understand why they wont let you play it. (i understand it is a FW game etc blah blah blah) but its a GW game none the less. Maybe the Manager is just a ass and needs to chill. i ordered some of the models myself (ORKS) and will be playing them with some friends at a local store.
My concern is since the Memphis Battle Bunker is nearby, does that mean i can't play with my models there? i certainly hope note. Its not like i am walking in with WARMACHINE or VOID or something made by antoher company.
All in all this just makes me sad that someone cant play with the models they purchased.

To be fair, the manager may well have been ordered to disallow it by someone else. I do not know how GW works beyond store managers, but a cell manager position probably exists, which could decide policy for a set of stores.

I think you should be okay at Battle Bunkers though - at least, the one in Oakville used to let you order in FW stuff through them, so they cannot make the claim that since they cannot sell it to you they do not want it played there.

Delicious Soy
14-02-2007, 22:56
he basically said he didnt want AI played instore because it would be very popular and ditract from the main line games and lose the store money.That says something about the core games then doesn't it? How can a little offshoot game so deterimentally affect sales? Especially when orders can be placed for it within the store? Or does GW have a thing against its own in store ordering service? You'd think that a sale is a sale, if someone buys some AI stuff thats still money to the company.

Half Eldar
14-02-2007, 23:07
That says something about the core games then doesn't it? How can a little offshoot game so deterimentally affect sales? Especially when orders can be placed for it within the store? Or does GW have a thing against its own in store ordering service? You'd think that a sale is a sale, if someone buys some AI stuff thats still money to the company.

Can it actually? I was unaware FW stuff could be ordered in by bog standard GW stores.

Melchor
14-02-2007, 23:18
Last time I checked you couldn't...

Lardidar
14-02-2007, 23:46
I was unaware FW stuff could be ordered in by bog standard GW stores.

It could not a few weeks ago when I asked to place an instore order.

mageboltrat
15-02-2007, 00:12
I can almost definitively say you can't order Forgeworld in GW stores. Unless it is Warhammer World.

The SkaerKrow
15-02-2007, 08:21
Honestly, I'd just stop buying GW products completely over this fiasco. A.I. was advertised in White Dwarf for pete's sake, GW's official hobby magazine. Until they change their store name to "Official Warhammer Fantasy and 40,000 and Lord of the Rings Only Game Store" then they don't have a leg to stand on in preventing you from playing there.

fattdex
15-02-2007, 11:00
The SkaerKrow has a point!!!

Scanno
15-02-2007, 11:19
You can't play anything other than the core three (40k, WHFB, LoTR) in the stores in Ireland. That means nothing from specialist games, so my Inquisitor, Bloodbowl, Mordheim, Epic and Gothic models are all useless in stores.

Am I asking for a refund? Not a chance. I'm in a gaming club that opens every week day for 9 hours (1pm-10pm) with our own tables and supply of models if we need them. I play in a Necromunda campaign and a bloodbowl league regularly and have just finished a mordheim camaign.

Find a local club, joint it, and play anything you want to your hearts content. Our club, while run in a university, welcomes any members and now has the old "regulars" of GW as dedicated members. (they weren't allowed play Gorkamorka in store, so they foiund an alternative). You can eat/drink what ever you like, there's no pressure of buying stuff, and you can talk about and play games from any company, not just GW.

Sai-Lauren
15-02-2007, 11:21
Gotta love GW with and their customer service. (at one time it was great but has declined in the last few years)
I'd disagree, GW's customer service is brilliant - other companies could learn a lot off them.
GW's customer relations is where the problem is.:rolleyes:

Forgeworld orders: I think you can order in store from them, but it has to be within FW's own opening hours - GW's main ordering system doesn't handle them at all.
Although, I must admit I havn't tried in a few years, I either order off FW's own website or pick stuff up at events like Salute.


Until they change their store name to "Official Warhammer Fantasy and 40,000 and Lord of the Rings Only Game Store" then they don't have a leg to stand on in preventing you from playing there.
Actually, they do have the legal right to refuse entry and/or service to anyone - the store itself is private property.

mattjgilbert
15-02-2007, 11:56
The way I see it:

1. Store is small and doesn't have room for games beyond the core 3 = no AI... fair enough
2. Store wants to play only core games during normal opening times becasue that is essentially what they are there for = no IA.. fair enough
3. Store has dedicated vets night and the space for many games. AI not permitted because it will detract from the core games = nonsense.

Baaltharus
15-02-2007, 12:13
The store has 3 display tables and 6 normal gaming tables. Room wasn't a huge problem. If the problem had been showing it off infront of impressionable young'ens then I'd have been happy to wait til after 6 when they were booted out. Since the only people who have bought models for it are two veterans so far (me and another guy) I doubt GW would be loosing any money whatsoever. I myself having been playing for around 10yrs and have invested alot of money into my BA and Eldar over the years. I certainly wouldnt stop buying any nice new models I wanted to add to my army.

Al.

kris.sherriff
21-02-2007, 19:08
In my local GW store there is only room for 3 gaming tables really but they some how get and extra one in there some how with a little balancing and last vets night I was playing AI on one of them and the was a game of blood bowl going on on one of the others while people were waiting there turn to play 40k and whf. So its not all bad, I love games workshop.:)

Christine
21-02-2007, 20:01
To me it just seems like another stab in the heart for vets - much like the inability it seems to order individual epic models from mail order.

I'm seriously considering making this month the month I stop buying from the mainstream GW company...

scarletsquig
21-02-2007, 20:24
I gotta agree... not allowing AI during open hours is fine, but not allowing people to play it during veterans nights is just GW taking the ****...

This thread is doing far more to damage GW's image in my eyes than any of the multitude of price increase/ rules-whining threads that warseer has spawned over the years. Severely tempted to just cut my losses, finish off 1 fantasy and 1 40k army to a very high standard, and eBay the rest to fund the various other wargames companies I've been interested in over the years

It's the difference between a company being incompitent/ greedy (which I can deal with, since those are standard features of most big companies), to the company being a complete prick to it's players for no reason.

And *that* is more likely to prevent me opening my wallet for GW more than anything else.

arcane
21-02-2007, 23:24
@Baaltharus:

You never said the location of the store in question. If we had a rough idea as to where you were we might be able to hook you up with an alternative venue to play. I appreciate that uni has its time commitments but I found that a well run local independant store can be just as good, if not better than a gw outlet for your gaming needs.

vampking111
21-02-2007, 23:56
My copy of AeroImp turned up today. I took it with me to my GW vets night. The staff in there(All the key timers and part timers) said they'd all be up for letting it be played in store.

The manager i spoke to when he was in last.(off ill atm.) Said he wouldn't mind as long as i dont take up a table needed for intro games. He said he;'d love to see it played and maybe have ago before ordering it himself.

So once i have my 2 squadrons built up i'm of for a game. (The second squadron is for my opponent introductions and for some variation.)
6

Gondorian
22-02-2007, 00:32
Best way of going about this is to, send a very polite letter to GW HQ lodging your complaint that you were unable to play, name the store manager and you can make a formal complaint against him if you wish. Don't try demanding a refund off the mark, I doubt you will recieve one in any case.
This should mean they see to the promblem in some form and you are likely to get a response.
If nothing happens or their response favours the manager then feel free to send a second polite letter saying you will no longer be buying any GW of forgeworld products. This will be noticed, whether any change results from it is another question but you have to make a stand at some points in life.
I hope it doesn't get as drastic as this because we're really all here to have fun and matters like this really spoil it for the paying customers.

I also find that overall, staff members are decent people, the lads back at my local are a great lot. You can go in there just to chill out really, well if you're a veteran. I know that they'd allow me and some mates to have a game of AI assuming there was space and that we asked, we always ask if its alright to have a game, more to let them know than anything else. I hope you can sort this problem out and get back to what the hobby is really about.

BozzyB
22-02-2007, 00:48
I can actually see where the manager is coming from.

Are managers expected to have their stores meet certain quotas? My whole line of thinking hinges on this point.

Pehaps the managers decision comes from a fear for his own job?

You play the game in store and it becomes popular. People buy the the minitures from FW. Money goes into GW pocket. People spend their money on FW products, rather than the products that the actual store is selling. The stores sales drop and the managers job is now on the line.





BozzyB

Baaltharus
22-02-2007, 14:29
I too understand the managers reasoning, however the clash in selling a product and not being allowed to play it is still ridiculous. The manager should have been given specific instructions on what is the official GW policy.

I don't mind the likes of Price increases because its necassery to stay successful in a cut throat business, however this sort of thing without any prior warning is too much.

Al.

Bookwrak
22-02-2007, 16:12
This has to be one of the more idiotic policies that I've ever heard. Things that keep the players in the store are a good thing. Just because they're playing AI now doesn't mean they're not going to pick up some other models when they're done. I'm also baffled by the lack of support for being able to obtain the other GW games or otherwise order them from the store.

Kargan DaemonClaw
28-02-2007, 00:39
If you worked in the store and people came up to talk to you about a product that your store didn't sell and you didn't know anything about how would you feel?

I can understand the managers point. Some stores don't want people to play games with minatures that are not currently available because other players ask "That's cool I how can I buy one" and the store has to say "sorry you can't buy one any more" the prospective customer then is disappointed.

Games nights are essentially instore advertising for the store so the store needs to generate sales.

One person or even thousands of people saying that they won't buy any more GW product won't make any difference. The of customers who get into the hobby for a year or so and then move on means individual don't matter. Ever written to Microsoft about not buying their products because of the bugs???

As has been suggested find a local wargaming club and arrange to play there. If you are at university they often have some support for clubs and you might find some other people to play against.

Boomstick
28-02-2007, 11:19
I must say it seems to be a store by store arrangment my local store allows it on games nights and another is willing to run special nights for it.

I play the game and love it but understand that stores are there for a reason and if its deemed to have a damaging effect then ill stop and play elsewhere.

orangesm
01-03-2007, 01:29
The oddest thing about the stores is their existence raises the price of the product.

ducki3x
01-03-2007, 05:04
About a dozen replies back, a couple of posters noted that FW wasn't available in GW stores. This seems to be the case for all the normal area stores, but the Seattle Battle Bunker stocks a wide range of FW products (seems to be a sampling of pretty much everything except terrain) and you can order anything from their catalog...you have to pay local taxes, but on the flip side you don't have to pay shipping or any fees US credit cards levy for converting USD to GBP...the redshirt I talked to said it took about 3 weeks for orders to arrive...

Krusk
01-03-2007, 05:57
They can refuse service to anyone, for any reason really. It may or may not be good strategy, but they can if they want. Makes me glad I play at home, or with my friends really.

TheWarSmith
01-03-2007, 06:18
Try and see it from the store's point of view. It doesn't generate them any sales.

No, but creating a very healthy gaming community where people feel happy and comfortable just being in your store generates sales.

I've been in a LOT of GW stores, and the more successful ones are the ones that don't try to sell you stuff. They just promote a good environment and the product sells itself.

ss_cherubael
01-03-2007, 08:34
seconded warsmith, the stores that actively try to sell you products are the ones that make me leave very quickly. I think that the manager probably had his reasons but still doesnt make it the right thing to do and he seems like a bit of an ****. Out here in Australia i play in most of the sydney stores on occasion and in a few independant stores as well. In the GW stores they wont let us play anything other than 40k fantasy and lotr. Thats all they sell so thats all they let you play. The independant stores let you play anything and everything even if they dont sell it which is very cool.
Anothering i wanted to point out about the selling of FW stuff is that it doesnt happen here in Aus, if you want FW you order it your self , hell if you want GW stuff that the store doesnt have they make you order it your self.

TheWarSmith
01-03-2007, 14:42
The conversation SHOULD have gone something like this:

"I see you're playing AI"
"Yeah, it's cool"
"If you don't mind, we'd prefer you don't play that game here"
"oh, why not?"
"well, because it's not a game that we can support. People might come in and see you playing, and then we can't help them."
"Oh, I see, I'm sorry"
"Go ahead and finish this game, but in the future, we'd prefer it if you chose to play our core and specialist games at the store. I hope you understand"

I've seen/heard store managers that wouldn't allow FW models to be used in regular games either, and I'm not talking about things w/ special Imperial Armour rules either(I believe it was a bT dread). That was different. That was because the manager was just an ****.

When I used to live in Los Angeles, I visited the LA battlebunker a couple times(which is NOT close to LA, or even in the same county). I walked in trying to buy a couple jezzails cause my local store only had 5th ed shotgun style ones. The redshirt and I discussed my armies, and he became very insistent that I needed 4 boxes of clanrats. I took the jezzails in my hand and dropped them and left.

Now I live in Chicago and for any of you that live in the area and haven't gone to the Chicago battle bunker, it's NICE. The staff are excellent, VERY helpful(Tim Lyson of 4x slayer sword winningness works there a lot), and there is NOOO sales pressure.

Zzarchov
01-03-2007, 15:45
I could agree with Wintermute, if GW was a franchise system. But its not.

All stores are corporate. Therefore it doesn't matter to the company if one store doesn't make sales, but gives the parent company sales online.

A franchise could complain about this policy since they would be losing money to feed head office.

But since GW is all corporate..it really doesn't matter if it generates sales in-store or not. Only that sales are being generated SOMEWHERE.

As for being able to help people with FW stuff..problem solved. Put an order in for it, call it a "customer value service" tack an extra charge of a few bucks for ordering in store (some people hate shopping online). Thats a plus, being able to sell inventory you don't keep in stock.

Stingray_tm
01-03-2007, 15:45
I can understand the manager's decicion even if i really don't support it and if i were in charge, i would not have decided that way.

I mean, what is next. Can't i bring my third edition Ravener to the GW because GW is now only selling the new model?

TheWarSmith
01-03-2007, 16:33
Yes, GW stores are incorporated, but that doesn't mean that individual results don't matter. Managers are still evaluated on their jobs based largely in part on the results of their specific store. So if the manager doesn't try to support products that are sold in his store rather than by FW(who i believe is technically a separate company), then his sales might suffer.

jfrazell
01-03-2007, 17:33
Yes, GW stores are incorporated, but that doesn't mean that individual results don't matter. Managers are still evaluated on their jobs based largely in part on the results of their specific store. So if the manager doesn't try to support products that are sold in his store rather than by FW(who i believe is technically a separate company), then his sales might suffer.

Well his sales would definitely suffer if those he kicked out fail to return. They may not buy some items directly, but the loss of ancillaries (paint etc.) is significant.

TheWarSmith
01-03-2007, 19:35
Oh, I totally agree. See the mock discussion I put up above. The key is that he should encourage games he can sell to be played, but shouldn't totally alienate people.

Zzarchov
01-03-2007, 21:33
Never the less, whether or not he likes it, GW might have a thing to say about him hurting the business to make himself look good.

If you refused to sell bagels in the drive through to improve your order time (what many drive through employees are evaluated upon), it will look all well and good on you, but if the store owner finds out your fired.

Gondorian
02-03-2007, 09:43
Bringing us back to square one, Games Workshop as a company has not taken any stance on this whatsoever. It hasn't told managers whether they should permit AI to be played instore or not.

silashand
02-03-2007, 10:02
I'm seriously considering making this month the month I stop buying from the mainstream GW company...

Been there. Done that. I now purchase GW products (if I do at all) via eBay and/or my local indy. Regardless the justifications presented here, the fact is that it is a GW product and should be allowed in their stores period. No excuses, no justifications. Idiotic decisions such as the above only serve to make sure said store *doesn't* make any money off me whatsoever.

Cheers, Gary

Chaos and Evil
02-03-2007, 20:39
Note that Specialist Games are also banned from most GW stores.

Cry of the Wind
04-03-2007, 19:23
Well I've been playing it at my local GW store. Actually it was against one of the staff (kindda of fun to give a demo game to a red shirt) and we had a few people around us watching. No one seemed to care that it wasn't core gaming (including the manager). I've even played a lot of BFG (the store had a BFG campaign a few months ago) and I would have had an Epic opponent had he not moved away.

Chaplin Davius
05-03-2007, 13:20
Hi all, I'm not shooked by the news that you can't play AI in your local shop as some managers just don't like anything thats not 40k, WFB or LOTR being played. The mananger at my shop is very nice about all the differant games as long as there are atleast 4 out of 6 tables for core games he doesn't mind. when AI came out all he said was

"The shop will not do anything for AI (like boards,etc...) but it can be play in store as it's a specialist game!"

And he has even talked to me about starting up an AI campiagn in the near furture.

Baaltharus what shop do you go down to? And have you tried other local GW's or a local gaming club (and if there isn't one why not set one up?)

Later Days

P.S. 100th post!!!!!

brotherhostower
05-03-2007, 19:58
I feel bad for you friend, that's downright aweful that you can't play AI in your local GW. Despite what some folks are saying, not ALL GW's have banned AI and Specialist games from the store, my local battle bunker and the 3 other GW's in easy driving distance all allow those games on Vet's night, and any other night if there's table space (table space being key as there isn't alot of it except at the battle bunker). Also, not all GW managers are powerhungry evil beings of doom that some folks think they are (Just like not all red-shirts are clueless like some rumor folks point out ;) ) It all comes down to the folks in running the store. I've had friends who worked at the local GW's discuss Warmachine and other games too (I know *shockhorror!*). Thing is they only discuss that stuff with the folks they know aren't going to just forget about GW and start paying Warmachine. The local GW's here can order FW and Specialist goodies for you if you ask (as can at least one of the indy stores here). I know, it sounds like paradise ;)

But really, it's the people that run these stores that make them succeed or fail. Good/Honest folks will run there stores better than most others, because in a place like this, those are the people that are going to get new folks to try the games for the first time and make them fun and want to play more, and those are the folks that'll keep vets coming back to the store time and again. It's a matter of whether or not the folks there will go that extra step and showing that they will or won't is often what makes or breaks a store.

Negativemoney
05-03-2007, 20:19
What most of it comes down to is the rules. And not the rules of the store but the rules of the game. The Staff are not trained on the rules and because of that they are prohibited from allowing gaming of that rules set to occur because in the event of a rules conflict no staff member can answer any questions (not that they are able to answer any questions of the game that they are trained on). But its more corprate rules than those of the store. Complain to them not to the managerm, his hands are tied.

answer_is_42
07-03-2007, 21:52
I'm quite amazed they won't let you play it. In my local store, ive started a Gorkamorka campaign, and they don't even print that anymore! is the shop even open on vets night? is'nt it for playing and nothing else? without people (kids) there who would want to play AI.

TeddyC
07-03-2007, 22:48
Its the store itself but it was early on and no one else was using the table, further more lots of people were wanting to see it being played and about half the store went up to complain to the manager throughout the night.

I'm seriously considering asking for a total refund for all the products I've bought but now can't use. That or an apology and change to GW in store gaming policy.

Al.

How many tables you got? I cant play any specialist games unless its part of a campaign everyone can be a part of.

Doesnt matter how 'early' it is if space is a premium they needto make the most of it.

Greblord
07-03-2007, 23:04
I believe it would be in GW's better interests to have specialist games in their shops - perhaps on a weekly rotating basis.
I am perpetually bored by the state of play on the gaming tables in there - occasionally a nice paint job, but the eye candy has been done to death by the time you've seen the same terrain 50-100 times.
Come on GW, AI is probably your fastest selling specialist game ever, let's see some support!

fattdex
07-03-2007, 23:24
people, my lord. go join a club where you can do whatever you damn please. If there arent any nearby- start one!

marv335
08-03-2007, 22:05
we can play AI in my local GW.
where are you geographically?

Baaltharus
09-03-2007, 12:02
Well I got an answer from GW head office basically telling me it goes upon the managers whim whether or not AI can be played instore. The only compensation given to the fact that I can't use the models on anything but epic games (I don't even play Eldar in epic though) is that a suggestion will be passed on to the head of the Scottish stores for putting up a notice regarding whether the manager allows AI to be played instore.

To answer Teddy Cs and Marvs questions respectively, theres 6 play tables and the one we were using wasn't busy and I live near Glasgow.

Al.

marv335
09-03-2007, 12:47
in that case i know the manager you're speaking off.
i feel your pain dude.
on the bright side i massacred him in a shop tournament once :D

Xavier
09-03-2007, 18:46
nAyd skscu :p

Yea, so it would appear that this is entirely up to the manager in question. At the three stores in Scotland I have been to recently, I have seen AI being played and it seems rather popular, and this was (in two of them) outside of games night, though was a battle bunker.

CaptainSenioris
11-03-2007, 17:07
A suggestion will be passed on to the head of the Scottish stores for putting up a notice regarding whether the manager allows AI to be played instore.
Al.

I guess we'll have to wait and see whether Scotlands area manager is willing to lose face over reversing his decision.

Baaltharus
12-03-2007, 00:37
I seriously doubt he will, that said, if they don't put a notice up regarding policy I'll probably continue to get on there case for such poor business practise.

Al.

Commander titus
12-03-2007, 16:48
This sounds ridiculous, As others have menioned on here its a Forge world game, in which forge world is a GW owned company :S, mind oyu a lot fo the managers at GW shops are complete **** bags.lol :)

Isambard
17-03-2007, 09:42
True, it is a bit harsh you cant play AI in the store.

But your reaction? Hillarious! Who says Scottish people dont have a sense of humour.

That bit about asking for yout money back made me laugh like I did watching Borat. Bravo good sir!

Marzban
30-03-2007, 23:03
Specialist Games products and the FW Books can be obtained by GW stores and sold by them in-store. Can AI? If not, this may (Note MAY) explain the policy of the store manager towards AI.

My local GW store does sell AI, and are fine with it being played in shop. Not sure if this reflects company policy, but just letting you know.

Baaltharus
02-04-2007, 14:29
True, it is a bit harsh you cant play AI in the store.

But your reaction? Hillarious! Who says Scottish people dont have a sense of humour.

That bit about asking for yout money back made me laugh like I did watching Borat. Bravo good sir!

Well I believe if something is sold without the necassery information then the option of a refund should be available. My Imp stuffs been religated to the odd Epic game while my Eldar will probably remain forever unused.

I've only heard of two stores not allowing it, unfortunately mine happens to be one of them.

Al.

DonkeyMan
02-04-2007, 17:37
I can talk about Warmachine, or FoW, or anything I want in a GW shop, I mean, is your store located in 1950s Moscow or something? Do the employees stand over your shoulder and throw you out if you are talking about anything non-GW related? This is so preposterous it is highly unbelievable.
Believe me, I saw this happening a few times. Well, people didn't get thrown out, but once for example I heard a few people talking about Dreadnoughts and Warjacks. Well they where comparing them with each other and discussing what they liked more on Warjacks and what on Dreadnoughts. From the way they talked, you could see that both where fans (and Players) of Warmachine and 40K. I saw the store manager going over to them and asking them to stop talking about other games or to do it elsewhere. It was kind off really strange. And something like this happened a few time (in different stores and countries).
Happened to me too, while I was talking to my girlfriend about Warmachine (and I wasn't bitching around and saying how much better Warmachine is or whatever).

ON TOPIC:
In this case, you never know what the manager has been told to do. It seems to be that GW thinks, that if too many people see the specialist games beeing played in the stores, it would stop them to buy the core games. I personally think, that this isn't true, but well thats a GW shop and a GW decision (and they might be right, you never know).

I would stick with the letter to GW HQ and I would stay friendly.

Izza
05-04-2007, 00:17
I'd vote with my wallet.
"You wont let me play Specialist GW game? You wont see any of my money ever again, I'm going mail-order."
Esp useful if you can get several people with you saying the same thing.

Surely theres other gaming venues in Glasgow?
Clubs? Independent stores?

Zoned
05-04-2007, 05:26
To half-eldar:

I'm very curious as to what local indie you go to, since I am in the Toronto area as well. I've been to most of the indies in the Toronto area, and the best one I've been to is Gryphon Games and Hobbies on Sheppard and Pharmacy. But even they lack basic services that most GWs do.

While most indies can give you a place to paint and play - do most indies go out of their way to teach you how to play? Like - this is Warmachine, want to give it a try? Or, I see you've built your Cygnar battlebox - wanna play the game and learn how it really works?

Or how about paint lessons? When's the last time an indie staff member offered you a free paint class?

I tour GW Scarborough, Vaughan, and EC, and the staff are always jumping to teach me something new, either with a paint brush or on the gaming table. GW staff tend to be way more enthused about the product they sell, since they usually paint and play regularly - unlike many indie staff.

To me, that's service. Waaaay more helpful then merely keeping a fully stocked store, or allowing me to eat as I play.

But back to the main post - I imagine the GW manager must have been having an off day - if the tables were dead, there is no harm in playing AI. I probably wouldn't turn it into a weekly gaming night thing, but if nobody else is using the tables, you can only make your customers happy by letting have their way while supporting GW product.

DesolationAngel
05-04-2007, 06:57
The Veteran night I used to go to only really supported the core games, people had to make a bit of fuss just to play specailist games as ulimately Veterans Night is to promote the products the shop sell and get extra sales as a result.

Consider also that GW don't even sell the rulebook for AI in their shops so it isn't something they can promote.

I agree its silly, but then that GW and GW managers for you, if its not a regular seller that can increase sales why promote it to other gamers on a Veteran Night.

We got past this by setting up our own club which replaced Veterans Night where we play anything we like each Tuesday, with a small enty fee to keep the club going. If all else fails get a table at home, a 6*4 board, black cloth or texture the board and play at home as GWs stance isn't likely to change.

AshenFang
06-04-2007, 01:11
I'd vote with my wallet.
"You wont let me play Specialist GW game? You wont see any of my money ever again, I'm going mail-order."

E-bay/Warstore/etc.. Yeah.

I'm, completely for supporting one's LGS, but when they act like that, yeah, it's just time to go elsewhere, and let them.. (and everyone else..) know. =p

I mean, don't get me wrong, I understand the perspective of, we don't sell it, so it's not making us any cash. The shop I work at can't get Forge World items in at any discount, so selling them will only end up costing us, or YOU more money. . but if the tables aren't being used, and won't be for a while, hell, let them play. Maybe it'll get someone's interest, anything to get more people into your shop, raises the chances for profits. What's the harm in that.

shartmatau
11-04-2007, 14:29
If stores stock Epic then it would be a good thing to allow AI played. The stores should remember that all (i think everything) the models can be used for Epic. I know I love it when I can use the same models for multiple things, and buying a few planes from FW might get people interested in adding a bit more to play Epic. Just a thought but makes sense to me.

Palatine Katinka
12-04-2007, 15:05
Sort of. If you don't mind your AI Thunderhawk being bigger than your Forgeworld Warhound Titan.

Takitron
12-04-2007, 17:12
I should chime in with everyone saying find a club to play in

you should also look for a local gamestore that also sells GW stuff. you should play there AND BUY THERE. heck, sometimes they will even discount you.

Khadhar'phak
17-04-2007, 18:03
I agree with Tyra_Nid. I play most of my games at my local Library club. Sure, I have to pay, but the folk are cheerier, there's more space and we're not limited to GW games either (many a time we play DnD. Blasphemy I know) so it's great. I had my first AI game their with the head member. Maybe you should try. Just have to rent some space once a week like a Church hall or summat.

(Again agreeing with Tyra_Nid: GW is staffed with men with the maturity of twelve year olds at best. Store managers are even worse as they think they have summat to prove.)

Havock
03-05-2007, 02:03
Talked to the manager directly (phoned me up after the complaint had been registered), he basically said he didnt want AI played instore because it would be very popular and ditract from the main line games and lose the store money. I understand his reasoning behind this but how can GW put out products they won't let you use? This incompany clash benefits neither the GW, FW or their customers.

Al.

Counterargument; most players are probably 40k players who will play and collect AI as an "extra", he's not likely to lose a lot of money because most people still build up a decent mainstream game force before moving to specialist games (and after 1500-2000 pts, most people tend to become real picky in what they buy)

Glad I have an indie here (well, an elite store or something like that).

spacepope
03-05-2007, 16:51
hi first time postting: i'm a form gw worker just before the last big change of staff. you wont get any were asking for a refund because of the reasons stated earlier. The games workshop and specilest games and forge world stuff is put down to one thing it's all up to the store manager it's them who decide what to play in their store in case of my store (Reading) we can not play any games of necromunda, epic...ect(including A.I) but we can use forge world models if they are built (in my case Knarlocs and death korrps). he says is what are nearist gaming club (spiky) is their for (his way of supporting the club in his mind, i think).

CaptainSenioris
03-05-2007, 21:41
Not again, quit with the threadnomancy.

I think this disscussion has gone on quite long enough, it doesn't need to get dragged up again and again. Like re-opening an old wound.

Our local GW stores won't let us play, end of story. It isn't good nor is it helpful but it's true.

CaptainRivera
03-05-2007, 21:54
Pretty much what happened when I worked in a northern VA shop some years ago. We found a whole mess of Mordheim boxes and they got a lot of interest from regulars. We formed a club, only to have our manager tell us we couldn't play in the shop after 2 days. This was after another shop's manager stopped in and saw people playing it. You can put 2 and 2 together.

It's sucky, but they get their orders from above, just as I got mine to move the club out of the shop, which we did.

We did notice a marked decrease in the amount of "veteran" gamers in the shop after that, as it showed a blatant disregard for any of GW's old products, and most of them told me they felt insulted...