PDA

View Full Version : Starting up Orlock, again



+_Void_Crusaders_+
13-02-2007, 23:04
hey guys,
It's been a long time since I've played a game of necro (since the last rulebook really...) and I'm thinking on getting back into it because i love the system! I thought I'd make a thread here to try and get some help on some things that ran through my mind.

My plan is to buy 2 of the Orlock boxed sets for my gang. My first question is: How would you arm your Orlock leader? As of now I'm thinking Melta, laspistol, and knife (possibly chainsword instead). Next question is for gangers armed with las/autoguns would you purchase them a pistol as well just in case or is this a waste of creds? Would you get any hired guns? I used to love the scum models and I really liked the pyro wyrd, but are they worth it these days? Would you arm your gang with grenades? As of right now I don't plan on arming my gang with grenades... Lastly can you buy common weapons from the trader lists right off the bat or do you need to wait till post battle?

This is my gang roster as of now (have not purchased models yet, just a mock up version)(I assume point costs don't matter for Necro as the rulebook IS online...):

Leader shotgun +20, laspistol +15, chainsword +25. 180 (just for expenses sake I don't think i want a melta)
Heavy heavy stubber +120, knife. 180
Heavy heavy stubber +120, knife. 180
Ganger lasgun +25, knife. 75
Ganger lasgun +25, knife. 75
Ganger autogun +20, knife. 70
Ganger autogun +20, knife. 70
Ganger laspistol +15, knife. 65
Juve las pistol +15, knife. 40
Juve 25 autopistol +10, knife. 35
Total Cost: 980
Stash: 20 (I go all out from the beginning :D)

By removing the side arms provided (except my leaders) I saved a whopping 105 creds. Would you advise doing this? I plan on being a shooty heavy gang (as you can see) but will also have 3 models that can be armed with CC weapons if you guys really think I should. Aside from the models listed above i will also have 2 more juves, 1 champion, 1 running ganger, and 2 grenade throwing gangers.

I guess I'll leave by saying thank you in advance for any posts and as well by asking if there's anybody in the lower mainland that is available to play with me. As of now I know of maybe 1-2 people who MIGHT play the OCCASIONAL game...

Jambo
13-02-2007, 23:22
Leader melta +95, las pistol +15, chainsword. 250
Heavy heavy stubber +120, las pistol +15, knife. 195
Heavy heavy stubber +120, las pistol +15, knife.195
Ganger lasgun +25, las pistol +15, knife. 90
Ganger lasgun +25, las pistol +15, knife. 90
Ganger lasgun +25, las pistol +15, knife. 90
Ganger autogun +20, las pistol +15, knife. 85
Ganger autogun +20, las pistol +15, knife. 85
Juve las pistol +15, knife. 40
Juve 25 autopistol +10, knife. 35
Juve 25 stub gun +10, dum dum bullets +5, knife. 40
Total Cost: 997
Stahs: 3 (I go all out from the beginning :D)

Umm if you drop the second heavy with stubber then you just about come in at 1000 creds, I think you should check your sums. Seriously where is 997 coming from? With those costs the last number in your total has to be a 5 or a 0.

+_Void_Crusaders_+
13-02-2007, 23:38
yeah, sorry I missed the second heavy... I already edited the list (I was using a crap calculater and the button must not have went in far enough :P).

On a side note, my buddy is over right now and is thinking on starting a Delaque gang! Oh joy :P. I rolled for my territories and got 2 settlements, a slag pit, a holestead and a gambling den... When i rolled a 6 I was really happy and then when I rolled the 3 and read the description i gotta say Im kinda bummed out with the Den :P. Ah well... ATM I'm just busy making up names for my gang, which I have called The Slag Heap Scourges.

Catferret
13-02-2007, 23:51
Side arms are not really necessary at the start if it means you can get more Gangers. I take a pistol on my Leader for when his Shotgun runs out because he has BS4 and you want to make as much use of that as possible. Heavies get a Las or Autogun for when the Stubber runs out of ammo(mine keep exploding after the first burst!). The rifle gives them a longer ranged backup, a pistol will never be in range for Heavies... Use the spare 20 creds to buy an Autogun.

Otherwise the gang looks good. Good numbers and no excessive equipment. I tried an Orlock Gang with Meltagun Leader once and they are very expensive and short ranged. I rolled on Stealth skills until I had Escape Artist and Infiltrate. They seriously limit the rest of the gang though. For the cost of a Melta you can get a couple of Juves with Pistols or a reasonably well equipped Ganger.

Oh yeah, nice sig! :D

EDIT: Autopistols cost 15 not 10. Even then your gang comes to 975.

+_Void_Crusaders_+
14-02-2007, 00:06
Yes, that's what I ended up with (Math 12 FTW!) after my recalculation :P. After rethinking it I changed the las pistols in the gang to autopistols on cheapness/accuracy so I saved a further 15. That gives me 40 creds leftover to buy 2 autoguns for my heavies. That leaves me at 1000 dead even. I'll be out tomorrow or the next day or so to get the models. Hopefully I can get in some proxy games before starting up a campaign (also would give me time to round up some opponents).

Catferret
14-02-2007, 00:29
Um, you know that Autopistols and Laspistols both cost 15 creds right?

Good luck with gathering a Necro posse. There are a few Necro players posting on Warseer who live over that way. Shouldn't be too hard to find a couple of willing folk.

+_Void_Crusaders_+
14-02-2007, 02:19
Um, you know that Autopistols and Laspistols both cost 15 creds right?

whoa, how did I miss that? I must have assumed that they were chaper as per the lasgun : autogun. Ah well... I guess I'll have to tinker around again then... So I'll be taking laspistols then. I guess I'll remove a ganger and put in a Juve to cover the costs then.

Lord Humongous
14-02-2007, 03:38
Take the autopistols anyhow- they are plainly superior weapons in terms of accuracy and hence power. The ammo issue is no big deal, you won't be shooting any pistol more than a few times.

Catferret
14-02-2007, 04:01
Don't drop the Ganger, you need at least 5 in order to work all your Territories. And Lord H is right, keep the Autopistols!

+_Void_Crusaders_+
14-02-2007, 05:34
okay... so to even it all out what do you suggest? I only gain 15 creds from the slag pit so I didn't see that as a big loss and could have hired someone else after my first battle... Do you guys think I should go into my first battle with only a single Juve then? Should I take a risk and buy only one of the heavies an autogun? Other than that I really don't see any other options other than what I have...

What do you guys think?

PS Im leaning to removing an autogun and hoping nothing goes wrong in the first game. As soon as that is over I'll have made over 20 creds for sure and can buy a spare for him.

Catferret
14-02-2007, 05:46
I wouldn't worry too much if only one of the Heavies has a backup at the start. You have 2 Stubbers so losing the use of one will still be enough supporting fire.

The more Gangers you have, the more casualties you can afford to take and still work enough of your territories. Don't assume you will earn enough every game to buy new people. Things could go badly and lots of Gangers could go out of action and then you can't work all the territories. Even if you do ok in the game, you may roll poorly for the variable income territories nad end up with a low profit. It's always best to err on the side of caution.

What territories do you have out of curiosity?

+_Void_Crusaders_+
14-02-2007, 19:15
I rolled and got 2 settlements, a slag pit, a holestead and a gambling den. As stated above I'm a little put off by that gambling den... but we'll see what happens... Hopefully I roll nothing but 5&6 every time!

Catferret
14-02-2007, 19:36
I hate Gambling Dens. If one of your Gangers rols a 2 or 12 for advance then pick Techno and hope you get Fixer. I am real paranoid about G Den, and rarely used it the one time I got one. Thing is you have very low income otherwise and may just have to bite the bullet. 2 Settlements are great. Free Juves are great at replacing your losses. I got 3 Settlements this time round and have had 5 Juves over 5 games. Income from them is stable but has no chance for lots of high rolls.

I have to hope for better things from my Spore Cave. If i didn't have that, I would never have money! My Friendly Doc is working out well. Sending free Juves forward to get shot rather than the rest of my gang is paying off and their corpses get me more creds.

+_Void_Crusaders_+
14-02-2007, 20:07
Nice! I'm not/looking forward to all the Juves. While I do have a model spare i think I'll need to get more :P. I hope I can do well on the income front. My holestead can hopefully out produce my settlements and maybe I can even do well with the Den...

Assuming all goes well and nobody croaks in my first battle, where would you guys go from there? I have made a ratskin scout and am leaning towards taking one. Aside from that i would like to purchase an autogun for my other heavy and maybe a boltgun for my leader.

Catferret
14-02-2007, 20:13
Ratskins are fantastic! Really, take one ASAP. Even dropping one of your Autoguns on a Heavy to do it maybe. The chance to get free territory is worth it alone but don't underestimate the +/-1 to the Scenario roll! I have had 2 Grudge Matches in 6 games! Yay for double xp!

Rather than a Bolter on your Leader, pay 15 Creds for Bolt Rounds for his Shotgun. Same maximum range but they have the Knockback Penalty of a Shotgun. I took this option rather than a Bolter for my Leader this campaign and it is working out quite well.

+_Void_Crusaders_+
14-02-2007, 20:40
huh... okay. I guess I'll drop the other auto gun to pick up the 15 pt ratskin and stock up the rest... I gotta say though, a 40 pt shotgun sounds kinda nuts :D. it's really a boltgun that has the manstopper shot, but I'll take it nonetheless when I get a chance. While on the subject of my leader, would you guys recommend the chainsword or would you use the points elsewhere? those 25 points could be used on the ratskin and then I'd have 10 left over (perhaps to purchase bolt rounds over manstopper...).

I gotta put a hold on buying the models now because I've lost my wallet and will have to replace my bank card and liscence..... Meaning there goes my spare funds for the next little while!

Catferret
14-02-2007, 20:45
The Manstopper gets used if you are sure you are within 18", otherwise fire the Bolt.

Chainswords are pretty good, the Parry and S4 may keep your Leader alive in CC.

Lord Humongous
14-02-2007, 21:40
Don't forget about the shotgun's scatter rounds. Ignoring cover mods to hit is very good; even with the -1 to hit at long range, it works out to a bonus if the target is in heavy cover. And there's also the fact that you can sometimes hit more than one target.
A chainsword is nice, but you have a big, shooty gang. How likely is the leader to get into HtH? The ratskin is probably more worth it; if you get another territory, it WILL pay off.
Don't worry about the gambling den. Statistically, it's the best earning territory there is, apart from the Spore Cave and Arechotech Horde. I used mine all the time. The only time it really is a problem is if you don't work enough other territories to cover the "loss". So just work all the other territories first, then send the 5th guy to the den, if you have him, and you'll have almost no chance of coming up short- I work it out at about 1/36, and even then you rarely loose more than 5 creds from your stash. The most you could loose doing this is 35 creds from your stash, and that happens 1 in 216 times.
Just another good reason to have LOTS of gangers, so you can work all 5 territories every game! If you work all 5, you should rake in 80-160 creds (gross) for a pretty respectable net income. If you find you are just shy of grossing 120 on a frequent basis, shoot for scenarios (like "scavengers") that let you boost your income. The ratskin scout is handy for that, meaning he can actually pay for himself, in effect.

Darkhorse
14-02-2007, 23:40
1 in 6 actually, (36 combinations and 6 possible doubles) I like it, great for the role play aspect. Pick up a couple of pit fighters and invite players to bet their creds. Best territory I own (so far).
Orlock Leader weapon; If you had more creds I might have recomended a Grenade launcher and Krak grenades, expensive and unreliable but very nice at S6. Though that's something you really only see with 1 heavy in the gang.

+_Void_Crusaders_+
15-02-2007, 00:04
Here's what Im thinking on doing...

leader with shotgun, manstopper, and autopistol. 160
2 heavies with heavy stubbers and knives (will buy auto/lasguns ASAP). 360
2 Gangers with lasguns and knives. 150
2 Gangers with autoguns and knives. 140
1 Ganger with autopistol and knife. 65
2 Juves with autopistols and knives. 80
This puts me at 955 creds. From here I was thinking my best usage of the points would be to get a ratskin (15) and hire a scum (15) and then put bolts on my leader's shotgun.

What do you guys think?
PS nobody has really weighed in on using grenades. For their points are they worth it?

Catferret
15-02-2007, 00:07
Frags are great. With the Rules Review they went to using the Ordnance Template. Plasma are good if you acn find them, they can block off walkways and funnel your opponent into a kill zone.

+_Void_Crusaders_+
15-02-2007, 01:27
So would you suggest investing say 90 creds into grenades after the next couple of battles or are they more of a "nicety" ran than a necessity?

PS I have modelled 2 scummers one with plasma/las and the other bolt/bolt. Both look pretty decent but what would you guys suggest as an efficient set of weapons? I'm leaning towards the scummer with the BPs on looks alone 8 )

Tomothy
15-02-2007, 02:34
Here's what Im thinking on doing...

leader with shotgun, manstopper, and autopistol. 160
Fair choice, although you might want to get him a sword instead of an autopistol.

2 heavies with heavy stubbers and knives (will buy auto/lasguns ASAP). 360
I usually only go with one heavy with a heavy weapon if i get one at all. I prefer numbers.

2 Gangers with lasguns and knives. 150
2 Gangers with autoguns and knives. 140
1 Ganger with autopistol and knife. 65
2 Juves with autopistols and knives. 80
Solid gang. No access to flails or swords?

This puts me at 955 creds. From here I was thinking my best usage of the points would be to get a ratskin (15) and hire a scum (15) and then put bolts on my leader's shotgun.
You only need one hired gun really. I thought the scum was 10 creds and thus clocked in at the cheapest. If you had good territories i'd recommend a bounty hunter (capturing guys can be really fun). I'd save any left over creds for trading post.


What do you guys think?
PS nobody has really weighed in on using grenades. For their points are they worth it?
I don't like them, but some people love them. Depends, frag are good if your opponents tend to pack up. Remember they only scatter half the distance thrown, so even if a juve misses if he was close there's a chance he'll hit something anyway. Generally i prefer the short range bonuses a pistol provides and the fact that they cost half as much and aren't auto.

+_Void_Crusaders_+
15-02-2007, 05:15
Fair choice, although you might want to get him a sword instead of an autopistol.

I don't see any swords in the Orlock weapons list (unless you want me to give him a chainsword (which is plausible in my books))



I usually only go with one heavy with a heavy weapon if i get one at all. I prefer numbers.

As you can no doubt tell by my list, I'm starting out with a shooty list with some minor assault elements (to add more later). Therefor I'm opting to take both available heavies.


Solid gang. No access to flails or swords?

I could do flails (not a bad idea), but don't believe I will until I add another CC member (such as a ganger or juve) or one of my members gets a HtH skill/trait boost. At that time I will kit out at least a third of the gang for some combat to back my leader.



You only need one hired gun really. I thought the scum was 10 creds and thus clocked in at the cheapest. If you had good territories i'd recommend a bounty hunter (capturing guys can be really fun). I'd save any left over creds for trading post.

Unless I drop another 5 creds, I do not have enough money for a bounty hunter ATM (although they are fun, I do agree).


ATM my list sits at:

Shamus Ironside, Leader (62xp) Weapons: shotgun+20, man-stopper +5, bolt shells +15, autopistol +15.
Cost: 175 creds
Christian Dorhoff, Heavy (63xp) Weapons: heavy stubber +120, knife.
Cost 180 creds
Gregor Ortob, Heavy (62xp) Weapons: heavy stubber +120, knife.
Cost 180 creds
Severus Hawnsull, Ganger (21 xp) Weapons: lasgun +25, knife.
Cost: 75 creds
Jacob Haethe, Ganger (22 xp) Weapons: lasgun +25, knife.
Cost: 75 creds
Woden Ironside, Ganger (21xp) Weapons: autogun +20, knife.
Cost: 70 creds
Doren Rhoius, Ganger (26 xp) Weapons: autogun +20, knife.
Cost: 70 creds
Cleg Polous, Ganger (23xp) Weapons: autopistol +15, knife.
Cost: 65 creds
Osius Towth, juve Weapons: autopistol +15, knife.
Cost: 40 creds
Carius Haethe, Juve weapons: autopistol +15, knife.
Cost: 40 creds


I have 30 creds to spare... If i were to drop the bolt shells on my leader (which I am sort of leaning to anyway) I would have 45. This could get me a Bounty Hunter as well as a flail on my autopistol wielding ganger. I have a suitable model for a Bounty Hunter handy, so that is not a problem. My only problem is that I did like the 1/6 chance of earning another territory from a ratskin. My buddy just happens to be here (he's one of my hopeful gaming partners, and I'm getting him to sign off on my roster sheet to show that sum1 was here while I made my rolls) so I should make any changes to my roster now, if possible.

What do you guys think?

Catferret
15-02-2007, 05:25
45 Creds would buy you both the Scummers and a Ratskin. You have the Scum models so use them. They will bolster your numbers nicely. Ratskins are worth having if you have the spare creds.

I like the fact you have gone to the effort to name everybody. So many people just call them Ganger1, Juve3, etc. You get more attached to gangers if they have a name. The game feels more real.

I miss Bukowski from my gang. He had 6 Attacks while Frenzied! What a nut case. Alas he was shot in the face and died. :cries:

+_Void_Crusaders_+
15-02-2007, 05:39
the only reason I play necro is because of the personality of the system (cheapness also fits in there somewhere).

I am leaning towards my scout (not really a ratskin ATM, not sure if i want him that way... maybe just make him like a scummmer scout or something... I was actually going to make the scum and the scout brothers (further back story to the clan). I am a big fan of numbers myself so i think (at least for the first battle (not sure if I can afford 45 creds per battle)) I will go for 2 scum + the scout. I feel the scum are a bit better fighters than bounty hunters (and I could really use the close shooty ability of the three of them together).

I'll now be rolling out their skills/stats and make up some names for them.

Catferret
15-02-2007, 05:45
Cool. I've never used a Bounty Hunter. Never liked the models and had a hard time converting one with all the Equipment you have to put on the model!

On the other hand I have always used Scum and Ratskins. They are totally worth it early on until the gang get some xp. After you get acouple of BS4/5 guys, you won't need Scum as much. The Ratskin is still useful for the free territories though.

The Scum Scout is a nice idea. It's entirely feasible that a Scummer would get to know the area well and hire himself as a guide. Nice idea.

+_Void_Crusaders_+
15-02-2007, 05:55
hmm... I'm looking over this list and after thinking it out, I'm not sure about having 45 creds worth of temp. fighters. 15-30 is not so bad, but after a few battles that all = out to 135 creds... I'm thinking 1 ratskin and 1 scum should do me fine. I think while I'm at it I'll add a flail onto my pistol ganger to give him some umph.

other than that, I'll horde the 5 remaining creds :D!

Catferret
15-02-2007, 06:00
Good plan. Flails are pretty good now it has been clarified you can use a 2nd weapon with them.

+_Void_Crusaders_+
15-02-2007, 06:20
Wow! finally I got some good rolls! (my territory rolls and my xp rolls sorta sucked...) My buddy's scum got like 3 skills whereas mine only got two (not shatty old quick draw either, and he got a lot of stat increases). Here's my Scum and Ratskin(Scum) Scout:

Jake Jackowski, Scout (+1 T, Infiltration, Evade)
Weapons: lasgun, axe, knife, blindsnake pouch.
Cost: 15 creds

J.D. Jackowski, Scum (+1 T, +1 Ld, +1 W, +1 BS, Gunfighter, Crack Shot)
Weapons: 2 bolt pistols, knife.
Cost: 15 creds

So I have a scout that is hard to kill and can get in close to the other gang and a scum who will hopefully be able to kill off some gangers for sure without dieng himself.

All in all I am REALLY happy with these two.

Catferret
15-02-2007, 06:42
They are good! The Scummer is gonna be real hard to kill!

Good choice with the Lasgun on the Scout btw. With his skills he will be able to get into a good sniping position and will be really hard to hit with Evade and full cover.

Darkhorse
15-02-2007, 18:55
On grenades, I've never had them in a starting line up. I tend to wait until gangers have gained a few relavent advances (Strength and BS) Since the frag was given the ordnance template I have heard of some players giving them to juves and just have them do a kamikazi at the opposition. For this reason the campaign arbitrator has put the frag back on the normal blast template.
I'd grab plasma grenades in a flash if I found 'em.

+_Void_Crusaders_+
15-02-2007, 19:49
I just find, for the points, they are a little pricey... In a startig gang I'd like numbers and decent weapons. A few battles down the round, who knows, maybe I'll pick some up (or even some rare ones).

Catferret
15-02-2007, 19:52
Yeah, buy them later not for a starting gang. If you end up with a Ganger with Specialist and Weaponsmith, or if your Leader gets Weaponsmith, a Grenade Launcher may be a wortwhile investment. Otherwise just throw them by hand.

Elated Panda
15-02-2007, 19:55
On grenades, I've never had them in a starting line up. I tend to wait until gangers have gained a few relavent advances (Strength and BS) Since the frag was given the ordnance template I have heard of some players giving them to juves and just have them do a kamikazi at the opposition. For this reason the campaign arbitrator has put the frag back on the normal blast template.
WHAT!? The big blast is the only reason to buy frags. They suck with the small blast.

+_Void_Crusaders_+
15-02-2007, 23:17
true, frags are good on the big blast, but in the spirit of the game they're not meant to be used as kamikazi's... So I can deffinetly see where a GM would step in.

Catferret
15-02-2007, 23:26
The Juve Frag gang is something I thought about years ago but would never actually play. Not my style at all. The Juves are way too expensive for a start! :D

+_Void_Crusaders_+
16-02-2007, 00:01
hahaha, we know all about your willingness to sacrifice members for your... Greater good. I wouldn't be ashamed to do it to a Juve if I had, say, a few too many on my roster than models available :D!

Catferret
16-02-2007, 00:13
I don't normally sacrifice things willingly. Believe it or not, I'm a very conservative player. It's just that at the moment I keep getting free Juves and can't often afford to keep them. Getting them killed nets me an additional D6x5 creds from the Friendly Doc and if they were free, who cares?! I have a lot of Chemists in the gang as well so feeding them Spook and rushing them forward in the hope they get possessed by a daemon could be a lot of fun.

+_Void_Crusaders_+
16-02-2007, 01:20
In all the time I played back in the day, i never got a chemist. Where is that in the skills entry in the book? Is that a skill you made up for your own house?

Anyways, I have 2 settlements (giving me 2 chances at a free juve) so I may just have to take some drastic measures if the little critters start to over populate on me!

Catferret
16-02-2007, 02:52
Chemist is from the Experimental Skills Lists downloadable from the Specialist Games Site. I thought they looked interesting so decided to give them a try in my current campaign. They seem to be worthwhile. Limiting Armourer to Heavies was a good step and some of the less useful skills have been improved.

Here is the link (http://www.specialist-games.com/necromunda/vault.asp)

+_Void_Crusaders_+
16-02-2007, 05:45
huh, those look pretty good... Just starting over againt I think I'll do it by the book, but those do look fun.

Catferret
16-02-2007, 06:07
They are purely optional. I chose to use them because I have been playing for a long time and wanted a bit of variation.

+_Void_Crusaders_+
16-02-2007, 06:47
Looking through the FAQ/Errata on the Specialist Games site, I noticed that the chainsword/chansword slip-up in the Orlock weapons list has been fixed. It makes it no less odd though... Instead of being able to have a regular sword (like the one shown on the champion model in the "startup gang example") they made it a boltgun (like the older models represented).

So they put a model as an example of a legal combination of weapons with an illegal combination of weapons then? That's pretty crap... Not a real biggy, I don't mind bolters but I don't think that i want one atm (maybe for a ganger a little later once they become not only leader weapons).

Kedlav
16-02-2007, 12:34
It gets even worse if you've old figs. I still have a couple Van Saar guys with bolters and hand flamers and a few other locals have 'illegal' combinations. The basic weapons and pistols should be common in Necromunda as far as I'm concerned, and that's how we still play.

+_Void_Crusaders_+
16-02-2007, 20:31
It gets even worse if you've old figs. I still have a couple Van Saar guys with bolters and hand flamers and a few other locals have 'illegal' combinations. The basic weapons and pistols should be common in Necromunda as far as I'm concerned, and that's how we still play.


See, now I can understand that... But these are BRAND new models that came out somewhere before the rulebook... So why would they make a model, as an example of what can legally be done, with illegal configurations for the rulebook?

I just don't see how that happens unless it was a slipup...

Catferret
16-02-2007, 20:41
A slip up by Specialist Games? Surely not! :rolleyes:

They're new rulebook was totally flawless and had absolutely no mistakes on every single page... :p

Kedlav
18-02-2007, 23:09
A slip up by Specialist Games? Surely not! :rolleyes:

They're new rulebook was totally flawless and had absolutely no mistakes on every single page... :p

<chuckle> The sheer arbitrary nature of some changes (House Weapons List specifically), as well as the fudge-ups has always made me less than thrilled with the LRB. I still run things out of the Big Yellow Book with a few minor changes with no problems whatsoever.