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athamas
20-07-2005, 14:41
when a rule states 'armour save is modified by the strength of the user'
Does this mean the modifier is the usuall one, [S4 -1, S5 -5...] or does this mean the S characterist is the modifier, [S3 - 3, S 4 -4...]

Zeb
20-07-2005, 14:51
A S3 attack gives no reduction in armour save, while a S4 attack gives -1 AS; S5 -2AS; S6 -3AS etc.

GranFarfar
20-07-2005, 14:59
Think AS would be rather useless if S 3 had an -3 modifier... :p

athamas
20-07-2005, 15:19
thats what i thought, but its in relation to the auto wound weapons, that seem to cost an awfull lot for what they do!!!

anarchistica
20-07-2005, 15:38
thats what i thought, but its in relation to the auto wound weapons, that seem to cost an awfull lot for what they do!!!
Yup, that's why no one takes them. The Runefang also ignores armour saves and no one takes that thing either.

athamas
20-07-2005, 17:13
ok, just checking that the weapons were being horribly over priced, as a +2 S weapon will maen you will nearly always wound on a 2+ and gives you the strength bonus.. for .. ooo about half the price usually!

PelsBoble
20-07-2005, 17:55
Well Great weapons is usually prefered because then you can spend your point limit on a nice armor or something. :) At least for me playing chaos i almost only use GWs giving my hereos str 7 is usually better than those ignore armor save weapons which cost like 50 points.

athamas
20-07-2005, 18:01
well i was looking at orks, who are already S5, and S6 on the charge with a chopper, so it makes sense to give your bos a nice shild and then a good enchanted item or simular!


will GW learn?

anarchistica
20-07-2005, 18:21
well i was looking at orks, who are already S5, and S6 on the charge with a chopper, so it makes sense to give your bos a nice shild and then a good enchanted item or simular!
No dude you want a great weapon because this allows you to wound Chaos Lords, Vampire Counts, Sauri, Black Orcs, Dwarf Lords, Chaos Chariots, etc on a 2+ instead of a 3+, as well as auto-killing chariots with a single unsaved Wound. Also, you reduce enemy armour saves by 4, meaning 2+ saves will be reduced to 6+ instead of 5+ (1/6 chance to pass instead of 1/3).


will GW learn?
We can only hope...

Izram
20-07-2005, 19:45
This is a rules forum but i can't help myself from arguing the effectivness of auto-wound weapons.
They may be pricey but for taking down dragons, giants and other high toughness creatures, a great weapon doesnt always cut it, especially striking last.

athamas
20-07-2005, 20:03
true, but with great weapon you will be striking at S7, this will be wounding a dragon [usually T6] on 3's... and saves 75 points of magic items, that will stop you from being munched by that dragon! [75pts will allow you to get far more magic protection!]

one more thing then, if you have a magic shield and a great weapon... do you get to use the properties of the shield and the great weapon, it would make sense that you would not, but i cant recall the rule saying you have to use magical shields, [i know there is one on magic weapons!] but it seems kind of silly!

Griefbringer
20-07-2005, 21:49
one more thing then, if you have a magic shield and a great weapon... do you get to use the properties of the shield and the great weapon

There are no special restrictions, other than that you cannot use both of them simultaneously. So you could either use a magical shield and hand weapon, or the great weapon, in close combat.

Now, I don't see much use in taking both great weapon and a magical shield, unless you are worried about missile attacks.

PelsBoble
21-07-2005, 01:01
Well the enchanted shield is pretty nice sometimes giving you +2 to your save for only 10 points.

Im not that famliliar with the orc magic weapons, but i think anar summed it up pretty good. Gws are great for most purposes. They are very good alrounders usually a better buy then an expensive magic weapon. Sure you may strike last, but if you have your char mounted you should get the charge usually, and if hes on foot he usually takes the charge so he would charge last anyways. If you think the combat will last a few rounds, you can always fight with HW+shield that combat and get a better save as well as striking in iniative order.

Griefbringer
21-07-2005, 09:58
Well the enchanted shield is pretty nice sometimes giving you +2 to your save for only 10 points.


Yep, but if you are on foot hand weapon + shield gives the same for cheaper (in close combat).

Of course different thing when you are mounted.

Zeb
21-07-2005, 10:13
Espesially on a Large Target... :angel:

T10
21-07-2005, 12:19
Regardless:

Taking a magic weapon leaves one hand free for a magic shield - especially important in an Orc army - the Ironskin shield is good value for the points.

-T10

athamas
21-07-2005, 14:37
yes, but then i cant use a great weapon, though i could use the thumping club!