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Porksta
21-07-2005, 19:13
A question has recently come up, and was wondering what everybody thought.

The War Banner does an additional +1 to combat rez. This means that if you have this and a normal banner, you have +2 to combat rez.

A Battle Banner does a non additional +D6 to combat rez. This means your banner only produces D6 to combat rez.

Am I correct in this thinking?

21-07-2005, 19:29
I would think it would give +1 for banner and +6 for being the Battle banner.

Sylass
21-07-2005, 19:33
I'd second that (if you add a 'D' to your post ;)).

It's the ability of the common, non magical standard to give +1 CR. Then you add the magic banner to it which gives another +D6.

If it would just be the +D6, there needs to be a note or something in the banner description that it cancels the normal bonus. At least that's how I'd explain it. :)

athamas
21-07-2005, 21:17
if you have the war banner an the battle banner, you would get a total of +2 +D6 to CR

1 from having a banner [you only get this no matter how many banners you have!!!]
1 from war banner
D6 from battle banner

Naghaz
21-07-2005, 21:53
if you have the war banner an the battle banner, you would get a total of +2 +D6 to CR

1 from having a banner [you only get this no matter how many banners you have!!!]
1 from war banner
D6 from battle banner

Whoa! I've never played it this way! We always took 1 for the banner and D6 for the Battle Banner assuming the D6 was instead of the +1 it would normally give (for being a banner). Under your interpretation the Battle Banner adds 2-7 combat resolution. Thats quite good.

Anyone else play it this way?

Drachen_Jager
22-07-2005, 00:41
That's the standard rules interpretation, I've never heard of it being played otherwise. If you read the entry for the battle banner it's pretty clear that the 1-6 is in addition to it having the properties of a mundane banner.

Lord Anathir
22-07-2005, 00:55
The correct rule is that the battle standard gives +1 to combat res. (no matter whether he has a magic banner or not)...if he has the banner, he gets an *additional* D6. excellent item in my opinion

Crazy Harborc
22-07-2005, 01:13
Well, this IS a timely thread. ;) There are plans of a WHFB in the near future. The trick will be to remember the Battle Banner AND be ready for the potential yelling.

I wasn't the one using the BB, the opponent didn't add on a D6 to the CR. It's been a while........maybe he's reading this too.

Porksta
22-07-2005, 02:48
The correct rule is that the battle standard gives +1 to combat res. (no matter whether he has a magic banner or not)...if he has the banner, he gets an *additional* D6. excellent item in my opinion

But the Battle Banner does not say an *additional* D6. The War Banner however, does.

T10
22-07-2005, 06:18
But the Battle Banner does not say an *additional* D6. The War Banner however, does.

Player1: "Lets see... ranks, casualties, banner... I score a 4 on combat resolution. Bu my count you get for ranks, casualties and outnumbering... you score 7."

Player2: (rolls 1d6) "DANG! A 3! I lose the combat by one point!"

Player1: "Huh? The Battle Banner?"

Player2: "Yeah. It doesn't say 'in addtion to', so I just have to assume that it replaces my entire combat resolution score. Damn you GW! (Turns into a donkey) Ayore! Ayore! Ayore"

Player1: (turns into a donkey) "Ayore! Ayore? AYORE!"

(When you assume, you make ass out of you and me)

-T10

peteratwar
22-07-2005, 07:09
It is a combo I often use with my Dragon Princes. The Unit SB carries the War Banner which gives +2 to CR (+1 for being the banner & +1 for being the War Banner). The BSB carries the Battle Banner which then adds D6 to the CR i.e. anything from 1-6. Very Handy. If you start with an extra rank you could have potentially +9 to CR before you start!!!

Porksta
22-07-2005, 15:17
I can read. It says "adds" D6 not takes the place of of smartass.

anarchistica
22-07-2005, 15:33
I can read. It says "adds" D6 not takes the place of of smartass.
The description of the Battle Banner states: "The unit may add +D6 to the combat resolution of any combat close combat in which it is involved"

So the unit adds +D6. Plus. In addition to. Etc. And regardless of that, you always get +1 CR from having one or more standards, and the Battle Standard is a standard...

Porksta
22-07-2005, 16:21
...and that 1 for a standard is included in the D6.

Griefbringer
22-07-2005, 16:35
...and that 1 for a standard is included in the D6.

Most probably it is not.

Standard is a standard. Magic item is a magic item.

The battle standard bearer with Battle Banner is equipped with two distinct items:
1.) ordinary battle standard (giving +1 to combat resolution)
2.) magic item that gives +d6 to combat resolution

The Battle Banner does not replace the battle standard (or any part of it) that the same model might happen to carry.

Porksta
22-07-2005, 17:44
But doesn't the rulebook state that you only get credit for one banner?

Major Defense
22-07-2005, 18:44
But doesn't the rulebook state that you only get credit for one banner?

No.

"If any of your units includes a Standard Bearer (either a unit Standard Bearer or a Battle Standard Bearer in its front rank then you may add a +1 bonus.

Note that if several standards are involved in the combat (a unit Standard or a Battle Standard) then you still only add +1, not +1 for each standard. Rules for standards are described later."

So you see it says that the +1 to CR for having a standard can only be counted once, much like multiple flank attacks do not add an extra +1 in addition to the bonus already given for having one flank covered.

The magical effects of standards toward CR are counted above and beyond the +1 mentioned on page 73. So a unit with the War Banner and the Battle Banner would get their normal combat resolution, including the +1 for having a standard and then they would get an additional D6+1 CR from the magic effects of those two banners.

johnblund
22-07-2005, 18:58
This is a very usefull thread.

i never thought about the battle banner this way.
(never really used it that much, to expensive)
But now itīs almost worth the 80pts for d6+1 CR

anarchistica
22-07-2005, 19:07
...and that 1 for a standard is included in the D6.
No it's not. What the hell makes you think it is? The +D6 comes from a magical effect, the +1 comes from being a standard. It's completely and utterly unrelated.

Bortus
23-07-2005, 07:16
Athamas is right.......Bortus has spoken......so it is written, so shall it be!!!

athamas
23-07-2005, 08:55
thank you!

the magical effects stack, no matter how may batters you have in a unit you only get +1 for having a banner, as my previous post!

T10
23-07-2005, 12:14
I can read. It says "adds" D6 not takes the place of of smartass.

Quite correct. It does not say "replaces all normal combat resolution bonuses", any more than it says "replaces the normal +1 combat resolution bonus for having a banner".

Note that other magical banners are lack the statement that they add to combat resolution in the same way as normal (mundane) banners. As opposed to magical weapons (where the magic item rules replace the mundane rules) it is generally understood that the magical effects are in addition to the normal rules for banners.

-T10

lordmetroid
23-07-2005, 14:12
Where is this battle banner available?

Flame
23-07-2005, 14:45
High Elf army book

AKBandito
27-07-2005, 11:44
there was a errata in one of the chronicles/annual, forgot which one..
but it basically stated that you can only claim combat res bonuses from one magic banner..
so a unit with warbanner and battlebanner..
its +2cr or 1+d6cr
or dark elves w/ warbanner and banner of nagarythe.. its +2cr not +3cr

Major Defense
27-07-2005, 12:24
there was a errata in one of the chronicles/annual, forgot which one..
but it basically stated that you can only claim combat res bonuses from one magic banner..
so a unit with warbanner and battlebanner..
its +2cr or 1+d6cr
or dark elves w/ warbanner and banner of nagarythe.. its +2cr not +3cr

One would need to produce such a thing to have anyone believe the ruling. I basically only regard what is in the books and on the UK site. If you can't find it in one of those places then you'd have to have the WD issue with you.

peteratwar
27-07-2005, 12:25
Can you give chapter & verse so to speak ?

Atrahasis
27-07-2005, 12:30
The normal +1 for combat resolution does NOT come from a standard but from teh presence of a STANDARD BEARER. Multiple standard bearers do not stack, but multiple standards do.