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Delusionist
05-03-2007, 11:30
I'm currently creating a Chaos mortal army with lots of Marauders and Marauder horsemen. I was just considering if Centigors are worth their points and if they would fit into this army.

kyussinchains
05-03-2007, 11:56
they are very much worth it! for 19 points a piece you're getting a unit which hits hard, moves fast and can ignore wooded terrain, the odds of them going stupid are less than 1/12, and as they only go frenzied 1/6 of the time, they can't be reliably baited, so it means that you'll be seeing more of the benefits of frenzy with less of the downsides.

2 units of 6 with spears and a musician is a very versatile unit indeed

oh and you can convert really good ones using plastic gors and wood elf horses, or use LOTR warg models if you want a more beastly body. You can get around a dozen centigors for the same price as 5 metal ones, and if you buy the beastherd box you'll get 8 spare ungors which are always useful.

explorator
05-03-2007, 14:20
I use two units of five each with shields and full command in my 2000 pnt Beasts of Chaos list and I love Centigors. Being drunk is not that bad, if you roll a six they frenzy which is awesome if they are already in a flank-charge position, if you roll a one they must test for stupidity on LD 8 which is a passable test usually. They are worth their points even though they are not Fast Cav.

DirtJumper
05-03-2007, 19:18
I agree, definatly a great unit. Not 100% sure if it fits into your army theme, but they are a very solid unit.

Delusionist
05-03-2007, 19:18
Thanks a lot for the tips. I'll get some of those as soon as I can.

Thanks for the converting tip. I am, however, doing a Viking themed army, and the "Centigors" will be drunken Vikings on horses.

I'm having some trouble explaining why their steeds get +1 str when they charge, but I'll think of something. As for being mounted I'll just say they have no armour and get the +1 armour from the steed instead of the armour.

Is there a problem with this explanation?

As for the handweapon and shield I'll say they have trained in fighting with shields from horses.

I know this is a bit too far, but I need tougher horsemen that Marauders, and I don't want to use Knights. And the drunken rule is too perfect to let go. :)

DirtJumper
05-03-2007, 19:30
Sounds like a good plan. I think it would make perfect sense that the steeds would get extra STR on the charge, I'd imagine being trampled by a horse might not be that pleasent.

Bull
05-03-2007, 22:48
Yeah the explaination for the horses only needs to be something along the lines of as they are drunk vikings on horseback they don't just charge and then start attacking, they charge and keep up the momentum when hitting the line, therefore giving you a +1s. Word it a bit better of course but that would make sense.

Delusionist
06-03-2007, 07:50
Sounds like a good idea. I'll try to find a way to give them a bit bigger horses too. Elven horse heads would make them look bigger, but they looks kinda wierd.

kruzkal
06-03-2007, 08:15
I'm having some trouble explaining why their steeds get +1 str when they charge, but I'll think of something. As for being mounted I'll just say they have no armour and get the +1 armour from the steed instead of the armour.

No. The "steeds" do not gain +1 Strength when they charge. And I quote:


Trample: As well as their weapons, centigors use their hooves and sheer size to crush the enemy. Centigors have an additional attack, which does not benefit from weapon penalties ir bonuses.

In a sense only the Viking gains the +1 Strength on charge.

Centigors are great. Their only down side in my opinion is their 2 Initiative. And I find it odd that the rules mention they may benefit from using two hand weapons as if on foot but there is no option to equip two hand weapons :D

Wadders
06-03-2007, 08:52
Sounds like a good idea. I'll try to find a way to give them a bit bigger horses too. Elven horse heads would make them look bigger, but they looks kinda wierd.

Use the new pistoleers horses, they are big and un-barded.....

Delusionist
06-03-2007, 10:19
In a sense only the Viking gains the +1 Strength on charge.

Centigors are great. Their only down side in my opinion is their 2 Initiative. And I find it odd that the rules mention they may benefit from using two hand weapons as if on foot but there is no option to equip two hand weapons :D

That solves the problem. I must have missed that when I read the BoC book.

Wierd rule indeed.

Is there any way to get a character in there? The would probably be my hardest hitting unit when I play under 2000pt, and a character wouldn't hurt. I've lost my BoC book so I can't check it. IIRC only Beast characters can join Beast units. Is there any way to get a mortal hero in there?

kruzkal
06-03-2007, 11:10
Is there any way to get a character in there? The would probably be my hardest hitting unit when I play under 2000pt, and a character wouldn't hurt. I've lost my BoC book so I can't check it. IIRC only Beast characters can join Beast units. Is there any way to get a mortal hero in there?

Not without impairing their movement. As only Beast characters may join Beast units.

Chicago Slim
06-03-2007, 11:39
Recall please that Centigors are not Beast units-- they're Special units.

The combined Chaos army includes the following classifications of units:

Mortal (knights, warriors, marauder horsemen, marauders, hounds, chariots)
Daemon (fleshhounds, bloodletters, daemonettes, mounted daemonettes, horrors, screamers, plaguebearers, nurglings, harpies)
Beast (herds, bestigors, hounds, tuskgor chariots)
Special (ogres, minotaurs, centigors)
Rare (dragon ogre, spawn)

I might be missing a couple of units here and there, but Centigors are definitely a "Special" unit, not a "Beast" unit. Notably, the minotaurs can be a bit goofy, because they're a "Special" unit, which can sometimes count as Core.

kyussinchains
06-03-2007, 11:40
I dont know if we ever reached a conclusion on that point, as centigors are actually beasts of chaos units as opposed to beast units, it says in the BoC book that mortal characters cant join beast units.

I never mix the two, but I dont see why they couldnt be led by a mortal hero on a steed.

explorator
06-03-2007, 15:40
Any mortal character would also suffer the effects of being drunk. I see some images in my head of a Khorne Aspiring Champion with a huge ornate pimp-cup.

druchii
06-03-2007, 18:16
No. The "steeds" do not gain +1 Strength when they charge. And I quote:



In a sense only the Viking gains the +1 Strength on charge.

Centigors are great. Their only down side in my opinion is their 2 Initiative. And I find it odd that the rules mention they may benefit from using two hand weapons as if on foot but there is no option to equip two hand weapons :D

That's because throwing axes used to count as hand weapons in close combat. So a unit of centigors could have been equiped with throwing axes, and used them for the benefit of an additional hand weapon.

From what I recall, 7th trounced this rule when it changed the description of hand weapons.

IIRC Bull centaurs have the same rule.

d
p.s. to the OP; HECK YEAH, centigors are incredbile. With their buttload of high S attacks, they can wipe out a ranked unit if they get an advantageous charge. Not only that, but they are indeed versatile. Quite an investment for how cheap they are(they're just a few points more than my mounted yeomen!)

Delusionist
06-03-2007, 18:32
So should I put a character in the unit (I checked the BoC book and I don't see anything that would speak against putting a mortal mounted character in there)?

As I said they will be my hardest hitting unit when playing under 2000pt, and I need them to hit hard.

Scholag
06-03-2007, 18:54
I had a unit of 5 once that charged second turn and then got beaten by Treee Huggers! Their lack of wounds is the main issue. If they are hit and wounded then their armour save isn't really gonna save them. That's one dead just from a wound. 5 of those and that's 150pts gone down the drain.

I agree I have only used them once and other players may be more experienced with the creatures, but I still will use them, perhaps just because of the price that they were bought...

Thanks

Makaber
06-03-2007, 19:43
That's because throwing axes used to count as hand weapons in close combat. So a unit of centigors could have been equiped with throwing axes, and used them for the benefit of an additional hand weapon.

I don't know if they ever did, but I'm 100% certain throwing axes never counted as hand weapons when the centigor rules were written, in 6th ed. It's a common misinterpretation based more on wishful thinking than anything else.

The reason why the centigor rules mention two hand weapons is because of the incredibly sloppy editing done with the Beasts of Chaos book. Probably there was some way Centigors could get two hand weapons somewhere in the playtesting stages, but this was later removed. The rules reference remain. Same thing that happened to with marked characters in chariots, for instance.

druchii
06-03-2007, 20:44
I don't know if they ever did, but I'm 100% certain throwing axes never counted as hand weapons when the centigor rules were written, in 6th ed. It's a common misinterpretation based more on wishful thinking than anything else.

The reason why the centigor rules mention two hand weapons is because of the incredibly sloppy editing done with the Beasts of Chaos book. Probably there was some way Centigors could get two hand weapons somewhere in the playtesting stages, but this was later removed. The rules reference remain. Same thing that happened to with marked characters in chariots, for instance.

Sorry makaber, the throwing axes rules in the 6th ed. rule book clearly state that when used in close combat, throwing axes count as hand weapons.

It really takes alot more "misinterpretation" and "wishful thinking" to read it any other way.

d

Makaber
07-03-2007, 19:14
I stand corrected, partly. They could never be combined with normal hand weapons and count as additional hand weapons, which is the important bit in this context. Should have been clearer, sorry.

Peril
07-03-2007, 19:34
A 16" moving unit that breaks rank and moves through woods with no penalty is a good unit to me. On top of that they are pretty cheap.

druchii
07-03-2007, 20:16
I stand corrected, partly. They could never be combined with normal hand weapons and count as additional hand weapons, which is the important bit in this context. Should have been clearer, sorry.

Fortunately a model does not have to have a "hand weapon" and an "additional" hand weapon, to be able to gain the bonus of +1A. He only has to have two hand weapons.

This is all pretty rudimentary 6th ed rules, and really doesn't apply, with the new rules.

No harm in enlightening the masses, eh?

d

ps. Sorry for the offtopic post.

smileyface
09-03-2007, 00:04
Centigors are great. Whenever I play against beasts it's the centigor that give me the most trouble.

sandpeople
09-03-2007, 12:08
I never decided what was best: Centigors or flesh hounds.

I think a beasts army needs at least one unit of centigors, Especially if you are not going to include screamers, furies or flesh hounds.

The other "beasts" special choices are too much alike IMO. Big guy on 40mm base, with simmilar number of wounds attacks and stength.

Makaber
09-03-2007, 17:47
The other "beasts" special choices are too much alike IMO. Big guy on 40mm base, with simmilar number of wounds attacks and stength.

Sorry for digressing, but the three monsters actually fills very different niches. To sum up, minotaurs are the shock troops, ogres are able to get a good armour save, and trolls combine both hitting power and survivability at the expense of reliability.

T10
09-03-2007, 18:02
I don't know if they ever did, but I'm 100% certain throwing axes never counted as hand weapons when the centigor rules were written, in 6th ed. It's a common misinterpretation based more on wishful thinking than anything else.


The issue of throwing axes as additional hand weapons in 6th edition has been discussed at length. I guess it's still relevant to this discussion since the Centigos are still equipped and priced according to that framework.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18080

The consensus was that the option to fight with an additional hand weapon is either explicitly stated (Free Company, With Elves) or explicitly available as a unit option. The reference to the throwing axe counting as hand weapons seems intended to stop people applying the Strength bonus in close combat.

It's a sloppy piece of editing and the potential for abuse is obvious.

-T10