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dominic_carrillo
05-03-2007, 20:09
i talk so much crap about other people's lists, i might as well put one of mine up.

vamp. count: aura of dark majesty, level two wizard, crown of the damned, great weapon.

necromancer: level two, dispel scroll, black periapt

necromancer: level two, dispel scroll, book of arkhan

wight lord: bsb, flayed hauberk

24 grave gaurd: full command, shields, banner of the barrows

25 zombies: flag, tamborine

25 zombies: flag, tamborine

5 black knights: full command

5 black knights: full command

5 dire wolves: doom wolf

5 dire wolves: doom wolf

uhhhhhh... maybe some ghouls
this is all i remember, as i havent played VCs in five months. this is a 2250 pt. list though

keep it kosher

Negativemoney
05-03-2007, 20:30
Yeh you might want to consider mountig some characters with those black knights. With out the extra punch a vampire or wight lord has you are going to have trouble wining combats with those knights. Also the grave guard can be a huge points sink. I would focus more on mobility rather than mass at the begining.

sphincter man
05-03-2007, 20:55
i agree, i allways mount as much characters as possible. other than that the command is great.

i would, however pt those dire wolves into one large pack of 10 or maybe even drop 2 (8 total) and spend it on you grave gaurd.

hope this helps!

dominic_carrillo
05-03-2007, 22:51
i try to keep the vampire close with the foot troops to make them march. i might drop a necromancer to get another wight lord. both of them on horses with the knights would be nice.

i just put dire wolves down because everyone else plays them. i guess its against the rules not to. they alays die and never seem to kill anything

thanks guys

dominic_carrillo
06-03-2007, 02:34
why do people say that grave gaurd are a points sink when every chaos player i know spends 400-500 pts on a tooled up chosen warrior unit?

Negativemoney
06-03-2007, 12:32
I look at it this way. In an undead army the key is to keep your units alive and outnumbering your opponents. A unit of grave guard can never be healed by your vampire or necros. The most effective Undead armies I have seen are those that do two things. First they do not take a single unit over 100 points that does not have a 2+ armor save or can be resurected. Second they always have a hammer unit that can take on 95% of the units in the game with little to no trouble.

The way I would restructure your list is the following:
Mount both your Vampire and Wight Lord give the Vamp a Lance and walking death as the 2 manditory items. The Wight Lord should have a Lance and the Wailing Helm. No need for a BSB in this army, its 200 VP that your opponent can just eat up. Drop the Zombies and Grave Guard for 3 units of 20 Skellies w/ Light Armor, Shield, and Spear (get some versatility). The main reason for this is beacause it is much more cost efficent to raise zombies than skelletons. Also you can make those skelleton units 30 man strong on the first turn of casting if you would like. Take a unit of 9 Black Knights with the banner of barrows (insert general here) Then take your Wight Lord and stick him in either a unit of 5 Black knights or 9 Dire Wolves. Flush out your army with either fell bats, bat swarms, or gouls what ever you like.

Also remember that mounted models can go into units of infantry so f you mount your vampire you can always stick him in a infantry unit to move them up.

Benji550
29-03-2007, 20:51
Don't make 5-man units of knights. They are useless that way because combining the two units into one is exponentialy stronger.

Highborn
29-03-2007, 21:24
Don't make 5-man units of knights. They are useless that way because combining the two units into one is exponentialy stronger.

I love my 5 man units of knights for flanking duty.

Lord Inquisitor
29-03-2007, 21:51
i just put dire wolves down because everyone else plays them. i guess its against the rules not to. they alays die and never seem to kill anything
I've been playing with Dire Wolves for a long time, and you know - I think you're right. No matter how good they look on paper, they always seems to roll over and play (un)dead for me. They're good for getting the charge in the flank and negating rank bonus, and also for outnumbering. That said, the last three times I've charged an enemy unit in the flank with dire wolves they've had the snot beaten out of them. But then my bad luck at crucial moments is legendary. In two out of three games at a tournament last week I lost my vampire lord to Killing Blow despite having the Carstein Ring (how much more protection do I need?). Once to a Bloodthirster, once (rather more embarrassingly) to Gobbler.

Lord Inquisitor
29-03-2007, 21:56
A unit of grave guard can never be healed by your vampire or necros.
Nevertheless, you need units that can actually fight the enemy sometimes. I've fought a Khorne Daemon army recently and really, really wished for more grave guard. More zombies are just more free combat resolution points. You can always use your magic to raise new units.


Mount both your Vampire and Wight Lord give the Vamp a Lance and walking death as the 2 manditory items.
Walking death is good - if you combine it with the War Banner it is even better. Still, I would ALWAYS look to protecting your general as a priority.


Also remember that mounted models can go into units of infantry so f you mount your vampire you can always stick him in a infantry unit to move them up.
Yikes... if you do that he can be singled out by missile fire and war machines! Take Wolf Form if you REALLy want that versitility...

EvC
30-03-2007, 22:01
skelletons. Also you can make those skelleton units 30 man strong on the first turn of casting if you would like. Take a unit of 9 Black Knights with the banner of barrows (insert general here) Then take your Wight Lord and stick him in either a unit of 5 Black knights or 9 Dire Wolves.

Whoa, if you're taking BotB and have a Wight Lord BSB then always always always put him in with that unit of Black Knights, the General can go elsewhere! In fact I heartily agree with your idea of putting him in a big unit of Infantry, I've been doing that the last couple of games and one thing's for sure, he aint ever gonna crumble due to being hit by a Bolt Thrower or crumbling due to CR.

Benji550
09-04-2007, 17:16
VC are tricky in that sense, the soldiers suck but the Vampires masacre the enemy. Thats why VC are one of the harder armies to play with, you have to have everything working in perfect syncronized movements.

Here are some tips:
-Hounds should never charge an unengaged unit without a Vampire.

-The large blocks of zombies and skeletons recieve charges and don't win combat but tie the enem up.

-The Hounds charge the units tied up with the zombies and skeletons in the flank and rear zones (making good use of their 9" M).

benccowan
15-04-2007, 19:27
hey guys im new in this thing im 14 ang i 4 1 wants 2 bring the nemesis crown 2 the vampire counts evan if itz not the necrarchs that get it i think i could get a few wins in with my undead hoard led by zacharias but i need all the vc gamers 2 go down 2 thier local games workshop come campaighn start and introduce the old world 2 a little bit of terror evan if the blood dragons ( my least favourite vc bloodline ) gets it ill still be happy plz reply if ur gonna help me in my campaighn of terror

Bloodknight
15-04-2007, 20:40
You could write that in English, would help a lot.

also, Netspeak is against forum rules.

Marcel
16-04-2007, 01:48
Don't make 5-man units of knights. They are useless that way because combining the two units into one is exponentialy stronger.

no it is not.

Lord Inquisitor
16-04-2007, 22:27
no it is not.

While delightfully concise, care to explain a bit better?

While putting all your knights into one unit might be putting all your eggs in one basket, consider that you really want to keep your unit strength above 5 so you can negate ranks from the flank - the only way such a small unit of cavalry is going to beat a fully ranked up infantry unit. Now with two units of 5, kill 6 knights and they are both unable to flank effectively, whereas with a unit of 10, kill 6 and your unit strength is still 8. Also, undead win games by auto-breaking the opponent through fear - which requires you to outnumber the opponent. A unit of 10 has double the unitstrength of a unit of 5. Not to mention the extra rank IF you can get them into combat without losing any knights (perfectly possible, e.g if playing Khorne)

Benji550
28-04-2007, 22:09
You NEVER double rank Undead Knights. You want the knights to do some killing and with two units, one gets tied up the other can still continue. Outnumbering the enemy is counted with all the models involved in a combat so 1 unit of 10 gets unit stength 20 and +1 for Flanking. 2 units of 5 still get unit strength 20 and +2 for 2 flanks. Also you make killing 6 knights with shooting and magic sound easy. Also if the knights are all in one unit then they are one target for artillery that needs to kill 8 knights. Two targets that enemy artillery has to kill three knights each is a harder target. Also with ten you must have a second rank or go around with one unit ten knights wide.

EvC
29-04-2007, 12:38
Ten Knights in one unit is a bit much but a frontage of 7-8 (Plus often a Hero) is perfect size to optimise number of attacks when you charge. If you think you can use two units of 5 for flanking duty that's one thing, but remember it's not as easy as it sounds.