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Hicks
06-03-2007, 01:06
Hi all

I had my first game in 5 years and it was a blast, I can't understand why we ever stopped playing that wonderfull game. To start things fresh I decided to have a trial game with my friend and I used Spyrers for the first time, he chose Delaques. I had in my gang 2x Jakaras, 2x Malcadons and 1 Orrus, the rest of my credit were spent on XP but neted me no progressions (I roll like poo). I don't know if Spyrers are considered cheezy, but I annihilated my friends gang. What I want to know from you more experienced players is if they can keep an edge in a campaign. To me they look great at first, but become less and less powerfull, especially if you lose gang members or suffer grave injuries.

Also, what is your toughts on the different gangers availible? I haven't tryed the Yield yet, since getting the figs is pretty hard, but he seems a bit weak for the cost.

Catferret
06-03-2007, 13:07
First up, are you using the updated Spyrer rules from Fanatic 2? They don't get random starting xp anymore, they pay 5 creds per point of additional xp.

They are also no longer as tough as they used to be. Nowhere near as cheesey.

Once they start losing models they get easier to beat. They really struggle to carry on after they have lost 2 models.

Any gang with decent numbers and sensible tactics can beat a Spyrer gang. My first game in my current campaign was against Spyrers and I won. Accept the fact that you will lose a few people on the way in, but then pick on one target and hammer it with everything til it goes OOA. Repeat until they fail their Ld7 Bottle Check. Remember that Spyrers have to take a check after losing just one model.

Yeld are still my favourite Spyrer type. They are fast and have Chameleonic Armour. That's a -2 to be hit if they move 10" and are at long range. Then you add in cover modifiers... Coupled with a good BS and decent ranged weapon they are great. One of their best abilities is being able to hide in the open. Get lucky and roll up Dive and they are almost impossible to target. Being the cheapest Spyrer type, they can also start with 5 models who all get an Advance Roll.

Hicks
06-03-2007, 15:09
Hi

I was using the older rules, I didn't even know that they had new ones. I just downloaded them and I'll have to decide with my fellow players wich rulesset we are going to use. I know that the ratskin player doesn't like the new rules for his gang at all, so maybe we'll tick with the old rules.

Speaking of wich, apart form the difference in buying XP and the patriarch/matriarch, the only difference I spotted after my first read is the power boost. At first glance it's not exactly nerfing (though armour doesn't rech terminator levels anymore) them I think, just look at the movement increase the Malcadon and Jakara get, +3 instead of the old +1! Was that the reason why you said they aren't as good as before?

After what you said, I'm really going to try to find some Yield mini. During my first game, I found that speed was really critical and the ability to fly would be really handy.

Out of topic: This is more a rules question, I want to know if you have to start your movement phase on the edge of a gap you want to jump accross or if you can walk or run to it and then throw the dice to see how far you jump? Also, after a succesfull jump, can you move or charge, or are you stuck at the very edge of the gap you just crossed?

Also, can you run to climb a lader or use the web spinners to move vertically, or do you have to use the normal movement value?

Catferret
06-03-2007, 15:30
Unless you have the Leap skill, the jump move replaces your normal move for the turn. You don't have to start right at the edge of the gap but there is less of a chance of rolling too low to make it across!

Hicks
06-03-2007, 15:53
Thanks for clearing that up, now I just need to know if gangers can climb up 8" on a ladder in one turn via running (I know now that at least the Malcadon can). Like I said, I really liked how fast my Spyrers can go and this would help my game.

I used a very effective technique to disable the leader and heavy. I used the 2 Jakaras and the 2 Malcadons like this:

J J
M M

The Jakara were running 10'' followed by the Malcadons. The Jakaras we making great shields for the Malcadons and managed to shrugg of incoming fire. On my following turn I could ensnare the 2 targets with the Malcadons and still cover their **** with the Jakaras. Again next turn I could send the Malcadons to score their kills while the Jakaras went to aid the Orrus wich was guarding the ladders preventing my friend from sending reinforcements.
I think I prefer having lots of bodies with no skills, rather than 3 Spyrers with tons of XP to begin the game.

Catferret
06-03-2007, 16:00
Yup, you can run up ladders no problem, they count as open terrain.

And yes, Spyrers work better with 5 models rather than 3. You can still get an advance roll on some of them.

Lord Inquisitor
06-03-2007, 16:06
It all comes down to the scenario. In a straight gang fight, you're going to struggle - just one hit and you're pinned, which is a blasted pain. Your opponent can just sit back on overwatch, and without a Yield that's going to be tough to break.

On the other hand, any scenario that allows you to bring in a small group of models in an ambush will rock. The key to winning with spyrers is to take the enemy on piecemeal, whereas the key to winning against spyrers is to gang up against them and pin them down over a killing field.

Hicks
06-03-2007, 16:51
It all comes down to the scenario. In a straight gang fight, you're going to struggle - just one hit and you're pinned, which is a blasted pain. Your opponent can just sit back on overwatch, and without a Yield that's going to be tough to break.


That is really what I also think is one of their main weaknesses, altough it's not that bad. Spyrers are really fast and they can all run to at least 10'' except for the Orrus. Combined with cover they start to be really hard to shoot. Also, since you always get a chance to escape pinning I think it balances out the fact that you are so few in numbers.

Again a rules question: I checked the profile for the Yeld, because Catferret really made me want to try him. Now bear in mind, my rulebooks are not all in english so sometimes it gets hard to understand specific stuff because the terminology is too different. It's says that the Yeld has gauntlets that shoot lasers. I assume that this means he has two weapons. I know he can't shoot with both (unlike the Orrus), but does he really count has having two (not so great IMO)guns?

Catferret
06-03-2007, 16:57
It just has the one profile and only fires multiple shots if you get the appropriate upgrades. they are just a single roll to hit and to wound I'm afraid.

Quin 242
06-03-2007, 17:05
But they do have the best range of spyrer gang weapons :)

Lord Inquisitor
06-03-2007, 17:09
I would suggest at least one Yeld. They don't start off that well, but with a few upgrades they can become very effective snipers. I've found time and time again I'm relying on my Yeld to try and give the combat-wombats enough covering fire to actually make it to the enemy.

Hicks
06-03-2007, 17:10
I was just asking because I wanted to know if you had a spare if someone disarmed you. By all logic I tough no, but like I sid, it's not really clear in my book.

Lord Inquisitor
06-03-2007, 17:16
I would assume the gauntlets count as a single weapon, and as such could be disarmed as a single action. (Obviously they would repair at the end of the scenario).

Hicks
06-03-2007, 18:12
I got another related question. In one place the Jakara has her shield listed has a weapon and in another place where her weapons are mentionned they don't even mention it. We assumed that it doesn't count as a weapon, were we correct?

Also, anybody else find it mighty funny that the Jakara can reflect back lasers jedi-style, but every time she does she falls on her ass?

Catferret
06-03-2007, 18:17
The new FAQ states that if you pass an UNMODIFIABLE saving throw, then you are not pinned. That includes Dodge skill, Orrus Power Field, Jakara Mirror Shield and Blindsnake Pouch.

Lord Inquisitor
06-03-2007, 18:53
Which is nice. Mind you, the whole pinning rules are in dire need of an overhaul, and in particular really, really hurt the Spyrers, because the effects of pinning from overwatch fire doesn't seem to be considered. As an extreme example, an overwatching ganger with a hand flamer is unchargable. Personally, I lobby for a house rule that if shot and hit during your turn from overwatch fire, you are pinned at the end of the move. This means if you are dodging from cover to cover, you end up pinned in cover, not out in the open. Similarly, if you are charging, you don't lie down right in front of the juve that glanced you.

Catferret
06-03-2007, 19:12
Pinning rules are fine IMHO. I have never seen that many Handflamers used after the :cheese: that was the Redemptionist/Overwatch/Exterminators thing. It just wasn't fun and people in our group quickly stopped doing it.

If you are charging an Overwatching model then do it with more than one of your guys. They can only shoot one person. If they do it to the first then the other guys are fine. If they don't shoot the first then they are stuck in combat and can't shoot anybody.

Lord Inquisitor
06-03-2007, 20:37
Easy as that, huh? That might work in some cases, but if you're using spyrers, he's probably got a whole bunch of gangers on overwatch. Believe me, it's a pain - it isn't like your prized orrus would get pinned down in cover, he'll get stopped right in front of the enemy gang, who are all ready to gun him down in their turn.

It's stupid. Let's say I have a ganger, who is skirting through cover but has to jump across a base-width of free ground. He gets hit but not wounded, but ends up lying in the one bit of terrain that leaves him open to the enemy (and almost certain to be gunned down next turn). That makes no sense - if you were pinned, you'd dive for cover!

Equally, if you actually charge out at the enemy and he blasts at you, it's do or die time. Either you'd run away (again, back into cover) or you'd keep charging - lying down in front of the enemy is not an option!

It's something that really needs looking at, as it doesn't seem to fit with the intent of the rules (which are really just written from the point of view that you get pinned from enemy fire in your opponent's turn). Both of the examples above happen to me all the time, whether I'm using spyrers or not. Something needs to be done, from an initiative test to avoid pinning (wasn't it something like that in previous editions of Necro?), or, as I said, apply pinning at the end of the move would be fine (so models would end up in cover if you wanted not out in the open, and chargers would be able to get into combat).

Tomothy
06-03-2007, 23:02
One house rule allows you to take an immediate initiative test if shot from overwatch during your turn, if you pass you're not pinned until you finish your movement (which if you make hth combat means not at all).

As to being pinned in the open my house rule is that there is an additional -1 modifier to shoot a pinned fighter as he's aware of the risk he's in and all his efforts are going towards not getting shot. Keep in mind though that this can make him not the easiest target to shoot and they can move on to other people.

Exitas-Acta-Probat
19-12-2008, 17:27
can anyone give me a link to the old spyrer rules? the idea of a 1000 cred spyrer sounds like a really cool way of spicing up a game or two. also, which combinations would you recomend for maximum flexability in a "normal" spyrer gang?

hendybadger
19-12-2008, 18:36
1000 cred spyrer?

has one ever existed?

Hicks
19-12-2008, 21:13
You used to be able to buy XP for you spyrers, so if you took just one you could buy him loads of levels.

@Exitas-Acta-Probat: I run 2 malcadons and one of each of the others.

Exitas-Acta-Probat
19-12-2008, 23:05
@Hicks: any particular reason? ive heard malcadons can lack killing power, and what do their blades count as? swords surely?.....two swords......hmmm..

Catferret
19-12-2008, 23:10
Malcadon claws are nothing. Any effect is accounted for in their profile. Not even a second weapon bonus I'm afraid. Certainly no parry.

Hicks
20-12-2008, 01:23
@Hicks: any particular reason? ive heard malcadons can lack killing power, and what do their blades count as? swords surely?.....two swords......hmmm..

As Catferret said, the claws don't do anything at all. Now the reason why I love Malcadons is that they are cheap (for spyrers) and they can have huge movement values. This is very important because against spyrers, people normally hide and overwatch waiting for you to charge them to draw their flame pistols and auto-pin you. Malcadons can easily catch a prey from the rear thanks to their speed and spiderwebs, wich open the way for your other spyrers to come into action. Their shooting attack is also pretty usefull even if you don't get XP from killing someone with it.

Catferret
20-12-2008, 01:28
Yes, with Malcadons on the table, the opponent tends to panic because they over-estimate their abilities. The only concrete thing they know about is speed so they tend to focus on trying to kill off the Malc. That leaves the rest of the Spyrers free to do what they do.

I think the Spyrer that scares me most is the Jakara. It's also fast, survivavble and very good in combat. Yeld are maneuvrable but not very tough to drop when you can draw a bead on them. Orrus are tough but short ranged and slow. They can be avoided until the others are dealt with.

Askil the Undecided
20-12-2008, 11:21
Their shooting attack is also pretty usefull even if you don't get XP from killing someone with it.

That's simply not true, Malcadons get standard XP for entangling hits because they are for all intents a "downed" result.

Exitas-Acta-Probat
20-12-2008, 13:47
im looking at the rules now and i think youre right Askil. to put a model into a downed state you need to wound them (there by earning XP), and if they escape from the threads they count as having a flesh wound, so becoming entangled must hurt them. and they really should have something to represent the blades, even if its just an extra weapon bonus and parry. i feel a house rule coming on...

Catferret
20-12-2008, 14:40
im looking at the rules now and i think youre right Askil. to put a model into a downed state you need to wound them

That's not correct. You do not cause a wound. At no point does the model adjust his remaining wounds. He is just in a state that counts as "down".


If a model breaks free it still has its full complement of wounds

Therefore the Malcadon has not caused a wounding hit.

Exitas-Acta-Probat
20-12-2008, 17:41
ah, i think i understand. so even though they count as down, theyre not hurt. just tied up with gooey stuff. so you would only get any experience for them if you either charged them while they were down, and took them out of action, or they rolled a 6 for recovery and went out of action that way right? but what about if they break free? they suffer a flesh wound if they do so it seems the only way they dont give you xp is if they just stay down...in which case you charge them. and kill them that way...

Catferret
20-12-2008, 17:52
You don't earn xp for wounding downed fighters. The Malcadon is best using his web to restrict the number of opponents who can gang up on him so he can pick on one ata a time and hopefully win the fights.

He can also use his speed to attack soft targets like heavies who often have the encumbered penalty in close combat. While the heavy is being dealt with, the rest of the party can move forward unmolested by autocannons or heavy bolters.

Exitas-Acta-Probat
20-12-2008, 18:54
so hes best as support for the rest of the team? making it easier for them?

Catferret
20-12-2008, 19:26
That's the role of each suit in general. To make up for the weaknesses of the other suits. Each Spyrer has a role to play to make the group function as a whole.

So while the Malcadon is fairly weak in comparison, he has some uses in the bigger picture. It's all about making best use of what you have available.

This is starting to make me want to play Spyrers again...

Askil the Undecided
21-12-2008, 01:14
I'm sure I've ad on FAQs that a web pistol getting an entagled result gets +5 for wounding otherwise they've invented a pistol which you have to pass a test to use effectively that cannot score experience, i.e. there is little point in firing it XP wise.

Also it can take a model out of action by failing a test to escape but you don't seem to think it can wound and thus it can't cause a model to get any XP.

Following your intereptation of the rules a failed escape causes a boost of +5 XP but a entanging hit doesn't thus one can gain +30 XP for a model failing for 6 turns but not +5 XP for the original hit.

BigRob
21-12-2008, 07:59
Macadon claws count as a weapon so the model is not penalised for fighting unarmed, but other than that they do nothing, like a knife. There is a poison claw upgrade in the boost list, but it just gives your +1S.

The 1000 cred spyrer is still possible, its just not quite as powerful. For 1000 creds you get between 6 and 7 advance rolls depending on the spyrer you brought originally.

The malcadons M+3 advance is just because you can't get multiple boosts anymore which sucks (Orruss powerfields used to be cool).

I like to try and keep a balance but that Jakara keeps popping into the gang because of the skull chip giving such a bonus vs pinning. If all spyrers had one it would be alot more balanced vs pinning.

Catferret
21-12-2008, 11:47
Escaping still doesn't cause a wound. The rules clearly state that no wound is caused. That's not "an interpretation", it's literacy.

Exitas-Acta-Probat
21-12-2008, 14:46
then how is it possible for them have suffered a flesh wound? the whole point is that they hurt themselves by struggling out of it.

Hicks
21-12-2008, 15:23
Catferret explains it quite well, "the rules say so". It might not make much sense to you, but unless you decide to use house rules, this is how it must be played.

BigRob
21-12-2008, 17:22
If it helps think of it as them being tired from struggling to escape the webs. Therefore they suffer -1ws/bs ala fleshwound. Its just using the fleshwound mechanic to avoid confusion, but no actual wound is caused. It sucks for exp purposes, but once you get that template the webspinners can be deadly.

Askil the Undecided
21-12-2008, 20:02
So when the web causes an automatic wound because they fail to escape a web the wound isn't attributed to the character that fired the weapon which caused it?

I am aware that no wound is caused by the hit or the automatic downed result or if one successfully frees oneself, but the fact it is followed by an automatic wound every turn until they die or free themselves. How are these resolved?

BigRob
21-12-2008, 20:20
Where is the automatic wound coming from, has there been a new rules update in an FAQ I am not aware of?

As far as I understand it, you pick your web target and roll to hit. Provided your in range and you hit, you then roll 2D6 and pick the highest +strength while your target rolls 1D6+S. If they win then they are pinned as normal and thats all. If you win, they are entangled and go down. They can move 2" etc as per normal and must roll in the recovery phase as normal. Obviously here is a chance to go OOA as usual, or if they recover, then its back up with a flesh wound although it clearly states they are at the same number of W as when they were hit but still suffer the -1WS/BS penalty.

Therefore, since no W damage was caused by the attack, you dont get EXP. If the model that is down goes OOA you wont get EXP but you do get to laugh. If you charge the model while its down then all the usual rules apply.

Askil the Undecided
21-12-2008, 20:55
Well if one fails in an active attempt to escape entanglement they take an automatic wound, it was caused by the web weapon does the model using the weapon get any experience.

Hicks
21-12-2008, 21:03
No because the model died without taking a wound. Losing a wound and going out of action are two different concepts, but they often go together.

Askil the Undecided
21-12-2008, 21:18
I quote The ORB and LRB page 38. in the rules for web pistols.

"If the total 9 or more the victim frees himself from the web and may continue normally is less than 9 then the victim suffers 1 wound immediately,"

I use this quote for the simple reason that despite the mention of an entangled model taking an injury roll in much the same way as one who has failed in an attempt to free themselves from a web pistol they don't suffer a wound where web pistol causes one.

Should the technologically advanced Web spinner be a worse weapon than a cobbled together web pistol made from an industrial glue gun?

Exitas-Acta-Probat
21-12-2008, 21:28
does the web pistol help you climb walls? does it come with a spyrer? is it worse?........yes...however, being tied up doesnt hurt you. being stabbed whilst being tied up does. very much. so whilst it isnt as good at killing people on its own it makes up for it in other ways i think.

BigRob
21-12-2008, 22:10
Ah well here is the problem, malcadons do NOT have Web Pistols.

They have malcadon web spinners, the rules for which are in the spyrer article. This means no automatic wounds.

One-Shoe
21-12-2008, 23:29
Hey folks! Long time no post! :)

Just going back briefly to the pinning thing- keep in mind that when you're first pinned you're probably *not* thinking clearly. Yes, I agree that the first thing you would do is crawl into cover, but that's where your next movement phase comes in. Immediately after you're pinned (ie that same turn, before your next movement) you're probably rolling around on the ground, holding your intestines inside your body, crying like a little baby. Yes, Mr Goliath, erm, a very *manly* baby... :)

LEGION3000
04-01-2009, 14:31
The whole idea of the Malcadon is to web your prey then run up and finish them in CC. That is why they don't get points just for webbing. It makes a lot of sense for the spyrer fluff actually.

On another point, how do you say Malcadon? I say Mal-Ka-Don where my friend says Mal-Sa-Don.

IMO the spyrers are still overpowered. If you break out the points of all their "free" gear their suits and weapons end up costing something like only 50 credits. Regular gangers can't even buy carapace for under 70.

Exitas-Acta-Probat
04-01-2009, 22:16
thats the whole point of spyrers isnt it? compared to your average scumbag theyre going to be.....well...spyrers..

BigRob
05-01-2009, 06:45
Yes they are powerful, but they are not going to be for long. After a few campaign rounds they will be outnumbered and severly outgunned by most gangs. Combined with clever use of pinning and terrain and spyrers start to suffer.

You need to make sure your playing the right scenarios, gang fights kill spyrers. Remember to use the patriarch and maitriarch when you need to and don't forget to concentrate on your vow, after all, if you complete it then technically, you have won, since thats why you were in the hive in the firs place.

Overpowered wise, Spyrers are not as bad as they used to be. Jakara and Yeld are still the best of the bunch with malcadon and orrus in second. Orrus is just too slow compared to the others, I find he gets outmanouvered and shot down, even with his shield. Malcadon works well as a flanker to entangle enemy heavy weapons while jakara and yeld are more direct combat/shooting. Just pray you get the kinetic shield/boosted lasers upgrades.

RichBlake
18-02-2009, 02:18
Time to revive this thread!

In my gaming club we're starting a sort of on-going necromunda campaign with a league table of Gang Ratings.

I decided to play as Spyrer as they are essentially Politicians in mega armour, but also one of my friends encouraged me.

I've written up a gang of 2 Orrus with 1 of each of the other. I was planning on giving everyone but the Malcadon 5 experience to start with, and the remaining 5 points being spent on 1 xp for the Malcadon. However now I'm considering evening it out so everyone can get an advance roll after my first game.

In any case are there any generalised tips for Spyrer and Necromunda in general? I'm a total newb to the game.

BigRob
18-02-2009, 08:03
If your a total noob I'd reccomend a house gang from the main book first so you get a good handle on the rules. The outlander gangs, specifically Spyrers and Pitslaves are very unforgiving lists and if you make a wrong move you end up loosing badly.

If your insistant on Spyrers then make sure your playing with enough terrain (75% minimum) and remember to use the correct scenario tables. Do not let yourself get talked into just playing gang fights because you will be butchered. Spyrers work best in scenarios where your opponent doesnt get his whole gang. This way you can nullify the numbers advantage.

Try and get as many spyrers as you can to start. The maximum is 6 malcadons, but you can usually get 1 of each +1 and have a couple of creds left for Exp. I'd say even the XP out because then you wont have a straggler.

IMO the best of the spyrers is the expensive Jakara because of the Skull Chip. As allready discussed in this thread, pinning will kill you. Orrrus is good but you are slow and short ranged. A good gang will be waiting with a plasma gun or even a heavy stubber. Now the rules for his shield have been "nerfed" you can't always rely on it for protection so cover becomes essential.

Finally, don't forget your vow. I'd start off picking an easy one like survive games. If your a glutton for punishment go for the kill gangers one but remember you have to actually kill them through the serious injury table, not just take them OOA.

Have fun

Lord Humongous
18-02-2009, 17:55
Begining players tend to get overwhelmed by spyrers because they don't know the tactics and rules tricks that let you beat them. But if you do, they pretty much are dead meat. Basically just set up so that only a couple can safely get in range, have lots of consentrated firepower, and don't move unless you have to. Then once you pin the guys who can hurt you, have EVERYBODY go on overwatch, and blast them as soon as they are done rolling to unpin. They pretty much spend the rest of the game getting shot, and stay pinned all game. Short game, and boring, most times. I don't like spyrers much (as my own gang, or as an opponent) for this reason. They aren't cheesy, just sort of one dimensional. IMO they work better as NPC Underhive beasties, sort of like genestealers.

RichBlake
19-02-2009, 03:47
Thanks for the advice guys, I figured out credits today and I could only give 3 a boost. If I had read this before (doh) I'd have taken your advice with the exp but instead i just picked the three "heavy hitters" for the boost, the two orrus and the Jakara.

One Orrus became WS 5, the other became S5 and the Jakra gained +1 Initiative. The +1 I should make pinning much less of a problem for the jakara at least.

I've never been one to take the asy way when there is a fun and potnetially more rewarding way. I chose the experience one, so I have to gain 1000 experience between them before they can return. This is on the basis everyone will either a) die or b) become uber. I'll either start again after a few weeks or be kicking everyone ass. I like extremes :P

BigRob
19-02-2009, 07:30
It's not the toughest vow but it will be a challenge. Don't forget the Maitriarch and Paitriarch will come to help if you need them (and you will) and its a good idea to try and save them until you get a huge game or vs the toughest gang.

Good advances for your guys, although the jakara needs the kinetic shield advance ASAP. Hope the dice gods are watching.

AndrewGPaul
19-02-2009, 11:18
Most people I ever saw use Spyrers took the 2 kills per Spyrer vow, precisely because it lasted a long time - they wanted the team to hang around, and build up some skills.

Autobot HQ
19-02-2009, 11:28
With the new rules, once your complete a vow you essentially get a chance to replace your dead, and you now keep the others if you want, so I think short obtainable vows are probably the way forward.

RichBlake
19-02-2009, 22:18
With the new rules, once your complete a vow you essentially get a chance to replace your dead, and you now keep the others if you want, so I think short obtainable vows are probably the way forward.

Yeah you're right, thats what I was thinking.

Autobot HQ
20-02-2009, 07:56
I think that rule change is the most significant, as it means you'll keep a good size'ish gang and be able to pretty freely customise it as you take injuries and decide you don't want an Orrus anymore, or wanted another Malacadon. PReviously you had to buy back members you wanted at their cost +1cred per XP point, meaning once you went back uphive, you'd have smaller and smaller teams as you'd spend valuable creds on buying back your favourite Spyrer. Now you're all set to keep a solid five Spyrers, replacing any injured or dead ones every ten games. Good times to be honest.

A-HQ

RichBlake
21-02-2009, 16:13
I think that rule change is the most significant, as it means you'll keep a good size'ish gang and be able to pretty freely customise it as you take injuries and decide you don't want an Orrus anymore, or wanted another Malacadon. PReviously you had to buy back members you wanted at their cost +1cred per XP point, meaning once you went back uphive, you'd have smaller and smaller teams as you'd spend valuable creds on buying back your favourite Spyrer. Now you're all set to keep a solid five Spyrers, replacing any injured or dead ones every ten games. Good times to be honest.

A-HQ


Well you still have to replace them at the appropriate cost of the cost + 5 creds per exp, however I assume this was automatic. e.g you trade in a Yeld with 10 exp (170 + (5x10) = 220) you could replace him with an Orrus with 7 exp ( 185+ (5x7) = 220).

Autobot HQ
21-02-2009, 19:05
Well you still have to replace them at the appropriate cost of the cost + 5 creds per exp, however I assume this was automatic. e.g you trade in a Yeld with 10 exp (170 + (5x10) = 220) you could replace him with an Orrus with 7 exp ( 185+ (5x7) = 220).

Well yes, but what I was getting at was that unlike before, when you complete your vows and your 5 man team, including a cripple Orrus who had 5 XP, go back uphive unlike before you don't have to buy back EVERY member you liked, including paying for their gained XP. Members 1 - 4 you can just have come back, then use the 210creds you spent on the Orrus to buy a Malacadon with 7 XP, thus still having a 5 man team. It is infinitly better this way than before, as to have back you four members previously you'd have to buy then back, which if they had 150XP each would mean spending 600 Creds on their XP alone, so you couldn't even afford them all. Now, as long as they stay healthy enough that you want to keep them, you team stays fair sized and deadly as hell.

A-HQ

hendybadger
21-02-2009, 19:18
am i right in thining that you only buy back the mount you paid for them in the first place?

for example, i buy 1 yeld and add 3 exp when i make the gang.
yeld gets hurt so gets replaced at the end of the vow.
even though he has 15 exp now i only have cost of yeld + 3 exp to spend.
and the other 4 gang members return as they left?

Autobot HQ
21-02-2009, 19:42
That's right yes, but you get new Yield with only 3XP, not a new Yield with 15XP. However, your other 4 Spyrers come back exactly as they left the hive. Essentially, after each Vow completes you can replace members for n00bs, for free.

RichBlake
26-02-2009, 00:50
Played 4 games today...

First game (Gang Fight) I ran forward, my opponent shot at my Malcadon with a lasgun, needed a 6 to hit. Got a 6, passed his ammo roll. I failed my 5+ save, he rolled and managed to take him out of action (on a 6). Then on the serious injury table, I rolled 14... dead. Next turn I failed my bottle test! Everyone recovers.

Second game I chose Raid against Scavvies. My opponent only got 1 Sentry and even though my Yeld managed to set off the alarm my opponent failed to keep getting his reinforcements on board. I destroyed the gateway after a few turns, but then he managed to get 3 Scavvies on the board. One guy with a lasgun managed to my Yeld, down him and once again I failed my Bottle Test.

Third game I choose again and once again it's Raid. My 4 remaining Spyrers are sneaking up on the 4 sentries, poised to batter all 4 of them. The scatter dice roll happens to face one sentry perfectly towards my Yeld out in the open. Defenders arrive as the alarm goes off and downs the Yeld, then takes him out of action. My Spyrers then fail their bottle test and the Yeld dies on the serious injury table.

The Fourth game I ambush some Redemtionists, I down two (thanks to one Orrus having sustained fire bolters) but then the flamers down my Jakara and flesh wound one Orrus.... Then I fail my bottle test. Both enemy gangers recover, my Jakara suffers a flesh wound.

So it's a very sad state of affairs, I have 3 Spyrers, some with some pretty good stuff, but they have to kill 5 people between them. Would anyone be daft enough to put money on me? :p

Hicks
26-02-2009, 00:55
Played 4 games today...

First game (Gang Fight) I ran forward, my opponent shot at my Malcadon with a lasgun, needed a 6 to hit. Got a 6, passed his ammo roll. I failed my 5+ save, he rolled and managed to take him out of action (on a 6). Then on the serious injury table, I rolled 14... dead. Next turn I failed my bottle test! Everyone recovers.

Second game I chose Raid against Scavvies. My opponent only got 1 Sentry and even though my Yeld managed to set off the alarm my opponent failed to keep getting his reinforcements on board. I destroyed the gateway after a few turns, but then he managed to get 3 Scavvies on the board. One guy with a lasgun managed to my Yeld, down him and once again I failed my Bottle Test.

Third game I choose again and once again it's Raid. My 4 remaining Spyrers are sneaking up on the 4 sentries, poised to batter all 4 of them. The scatter dice roll happens to face one sentry perfectly towards my Yeld out in the open. Defenders arrive as the alarm goes off and downs the Yeld, then takes him out of action. My Spyrers then fail their bottle test and the Yeld dies on the serious injury table.

The Fourth game I ambush some Redemtionists, I down two (thanks to one Orrus having sustained fire bolters) but then the flamers down my Jakara and flesh wound one Orrus.... Then I fail my bottle test. Both enemy gangers recover, my Jakara suffers a flesh wound.

So it's a very sad state of affairs, I have 3 Spyrers, some with some pretty good stuff, but they have to kill 5 people between them. Would anyone be daft enough to put money on me? :p

2 deads already, I highly suggest you start over with a new gang then!

RichBlake
26-02-2009, 01:29
2 deads already, I highly suggest you start over with a new gang then!


Sod that, they'll either be Epic Spyrers or they'll all die! At least the games would be over quickly if they all die :p

AndrewGPaul
26-02-2009, 07:34
Keep going; 3 Spyrers isn't a bad number. If another one goes, I'd reconsider, though.

Autobot HQ
26-02-2009, 09:21
Keep going. Bonus of Spyrers being that those two deadies will be replaced if you manage to kill 5 people.

With only a Orrus, Jakara and Yeild left, I'd be very picky in my mission selection. I suggest you get your hands on the Outlaw missions, as they'll help no-end in allowing you to pick apart enemies and then hightail it. Shame about losing the Malacadon though, I like them nippy b*stards.

BigRob
26-02-2009, 10:25
Make sure your using the right scenario tables for them (Do they still have the outlanders scenarios?). I'd never take spyrers to a gang fight, its far to easy for your opponent. They work best in missions where the enemy only get half their gang or have limited deployment options.

IMO this is how spyrers should work, they pick the enemy off predator style. in a gang fight the enemy can sit happily on overwatch with numerical advantages and combined firepower. Bad luck on loosing the two guys so early but fair play for not immediatly restarting.

Let us know how it goes, Good luck!

RichBlake
26-02-2009, 15:13
I have two Orrus and a Jakara left, but to be fair one Orrus is WS5 and has Sustained Fire Bolt Launchers, Disarm and Impetuous. The other is WS5, S5, LD8 with Improved Bolter Range. The Jakara is S4 (-1 due to arm wound though), I4 with 2 Attacks and also has the Thickened Armour power boost (4+ save followed 4+ save? Yes please :P).

I'm rolling on the standard Necromunda scenario table, but the Spyrers are restricted in what they can choose anyway.

Sine my gang rating is less then 750 I'm getting bonus exp even when I'm losing, but importantly if I start getting close to 5 guys killed or another spyrer drops I'll call in the Patriarch then the Matriarch and let them do the talking!

RichBlake
01-03-2009, 16:44
OK so I played another two games the other night, and by the end of them I had only 1 Orrus left and he was Shell Shocked, so I decided to start again.

I played a total of 7 games with the goal of reaching 10 games survived. The first 6 went really well, I lost 4 of those 6 games but all my Spyrers were alive and getting exp. However in game 6 I was against Arbites and all my Spyrer's lived and I captured an Arbite, that's where it all went wrong.

My opponent opted to launch a rescue mission, his Heavy Stubber took down an Orrus and his Cyber Mastif ate my Jakara on sentry duty, but it set off the alarm. In my next turn the Malcadon took down his Sergeant but then the heavy stubber took down my other Orrus. Basically long story short he took out everyone but my Yeld.

In the post-game section my one Orrus got an Old Battle wound, the other was captured. Then my Malcadon was captured and my Jakara died. Since all captured Spyrers die instantly, that means I'm now left with an Orrus and a Yeld.

However, I need to survive 3 games and I still have the Patriarch and Matriarch to help me.

So, how do I deal with Rescue scenarios in the future? I couldn't bottle out even after taking heavy casualties so he was free to basically kick my ass. Also since I cannot control my sentries the positions of them all were out of my hands. Any tips to deal with this in the future?

BigRob
01-03-2009, 17:17
There was an article in WD and on the old SG website with extra rules for attacking a spyrer base. Basiclaly they get a load of cool defensive powers ranging from turrets to alarms. I don't know if it is still available but any decent player should let you use it.

RichBlake
01-03-2009, 22:15
There was an article in WD and on the old SG website with extra rules for attacking a spyrer base. Basiclaly they get a load of cool defensive powers ranging from turrets to alarms. I don't know if it is still available but any decent player should let you use it.


Yeah thats in the Spyrer PDF, it's just an option for attacking the Spyrers if you get to choose the mission, doesn't let you rescue people etc.

RichBlake
02-03-2009, 23:37
OK well I played aother two games tonight. The first game resulted in my Orrus getting captured (and therefore dying).

However now I only need to survive two more games, and I have both the Patriarch and the Matriarch left. I then played a game with the Patriarch and my surviving Yeld, the Yeld simply hiding on the top of a building while the Patriarch dealt out enough damage to win me the game. I intend on repeating that with the Matriarch.

So next time I get a chance to play and I finish that game I can restart with a BS7, T4 Yeld that has Sharpened Claws (+1S in CC), Dive (Run then hide), Horrific Scars (Causes Fear) and Sustained Fire 1 Lasers!

Also more good news as I managed to buy a Patriarch (minus the arms) off Ebay for 15 quid. I plan on conveting arms using guitar wire.

AndrewGPaul
03-03-2009, 12:43
Do you not get to do rescue missions with Spyrers any more? boo.

Tomothy
04-03-2009, 06:45
Never did. I might allow it as a house rule since they got nerfed a bit, otherwise they might have quite a hard time of it.

RichBlake
05-03-2009, 22:01
Never did. I might allow it as a house rule since they got nerfed a bit, otherwise they might have quite a hard time of it.

If I was going to make a house rule it'd simply be that spyrers are tough to capture so count capture results as a recovery or randomly determined permenant injury on the roll of a 4+ (i.e arm wound, leg wound, chest wound, head wound, blinded in one eye, hand injury, partially deafened, shell shock, old battle wound or recovery, use a D10).

Hicks
12-03-2009, 22:31
I always tought it was very fitting that people who hunt other humans for sport were heartless enough to leave their former friends to die without lifting a finger.

RichBlake
13-03-2009, 21:19
Same!

By the way guys the link at the bottom of my sig links to my gang, so if anyone fancies checing up on them simply click the link!