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View Full Version : ok Warseers I need your help on a concept I am developing (Tau and possible rambling)



Yarick Zan
06-03-2007, 07:04
I have in fact 2 ideas, and it may take a while. Beware of the wall of text.

So first a little bit of info first. I played against 2 marine armies today with librarians that just got right under my skin on the pissing me off level. On my way home I got to thinking about a few things. Medusa V gave some quite.... expected and non expected results. From what I can gather the Tau have got the warp or navigator genes figured out. Correct me if I am wrong. Since the Tau have gotten the information they have, it makes sense that they would start fiddleing with it, even though they don't think it's the right path. Remember there is always 1 person in every society that goes their own way. That being said, I am seeing the eventual expirementation with psykers happening, and the weapons and equipment coming fourth from this. I am seeing something like Shadowsun's XV22, except its designed more for a psyker of some sort. Now I know what you are thinking, and I have 2 solutions to the whole the Tau are not psykers in any way, shape, or form. I am seeing either a genetic engineered Tau, or one of the other races, like Humans used instead.

That being said my idea is somthing like a librarian, except since it is infact Tau, new, and most likely unreliable it has a few drawbacks. For example, Perils of the Warp is more likely. If it is in a battlesuit, it has a reduced number of slots due to some sort of technology meant to help the psyker. Like for example the standard XV8 has 3 slots, the psyker variant has only 1 or 2 due to the supposed amplifiers of the equipment in the suit. It limits me to 1 or 2 weapons or 1 weapon and a support system. Also a limited number of powers, but more to the Tau's style such as an inspiring presence ability (work this out later)

This opens me up to a few new ideas fluff wise, commander wise, and army wise. Maybe my commander is now consorting with daemons brought on by the expirimental psyker, or maybe the psyker itself killed the commander and took his place, or the commander is possessed by daemons that came through the psyker.

To me this one has a lot of opportunities.


Now my second idea. A Farsight army with a bit of a twist on the bodyguard or all the battlesuit team leaders, or all the battlesuits themselves. Giving them all some sort of close combat weapon. That way the emphasis on hand to hand fighting given by Farsight is more apparent. Limiting it to only his bodyguards would be prudent. Somthing though that makes the whole choppy choppy felt in the army. I admit it needs limitations or else it removes the Tau's biggest flaw, but I think it could really work.



House rules apply throughout this so feel free to poke and prod and change and suggest what you feel is right.

superknijn
06-03-2007, 07:11
Well,the problem with the above is that the Tau didn't fully come to grasp with it; they didn't want anything to do with it. All the Daemons and Chaos gods where probably top horriffic and dangerous for the. Thus, it was deemed that it wasn't worth the effort, and they stopped all the research.
I really doubt that they somehow have found certain 'psyker genes'; messing with the Tau physiology and thus the Caste system isn't something the Tau are willing to do (for fear of the Mon'tau), and I also doubt that in any kind of fiction, there's an interspecies gene that allows everyone who has it to become a psychic. :wtf:

Farsight might, but as he's Farsight, nobody knows.

Yarick Zan
06-03-2007, 07:14
Well,the problem with the above is that the Tau didn't fully come to grasp with it; they didn't want anything to do with it. All the Daemons and Chaos gods where probably top horriffic and dangerous for the. Thus, it was deemed that it wasn't worth the effort, and they stopped all the research.
I really doubt that they somehow have found certain 'psyker genes'; messing with the Tau physiology and thus the Caste system isn't something the Tau are willing to do (for fear of the Mon'tau), and I also doubt that in any kind of fiction, there's an interspecies gene that allows everyone who has it to become a psychic. :wtf:

Farsight might, but as he's Farsight, nobody knows.



You see this is the kind of post I want. A constructive kind that points out the flaws in what I have. This was all winged and on the spot so I need posts to point out the pros and cons. Heh, I also want some kind of support for my ideas.

Eirich
06-03-2007, 08:38
Well, Tau do travel (on the edge of) the warp and someone in their society must have become interested in exploring the powers that lies there.
Although doesn't have the physical possibilities to become psykers maybe they will construct an device thar harvest the powers of the warp and use it like a psyker to affect the minds of others.
If they would constrct such a machine they would probably mount it in a XV88 suit to use it in battle.
Ain't this a possible way?

Murphey
06-03-2007, 08:50
I would highly doubt that the Tau would start experimenting with psykers on any deep level.

The Tau are the pinnacle or a Caste system: They are highly controlled, highly regulated, and everything is for the "greater good".

Also, their entire system learning is based on scientific ideals, and real-world physics. I think the Tau would balk at the very idea of a dimension that doesent follow causality or normal natural laws.

So overall, I dont think psychic Tau are very likely. The closest I think you could come to it, is if they assimilated a race of psykers into their empire, and thus had specialized soldiers with psychic powers of that race.

Khaine's Messenger
06-03-2007, 08:51
From what I can gather the Tau have got the warp or navigator genes figured out.

Not really. The horrible noises they got from their researchers basically made them swear off the stuff. So no, it's not "figured out."


Remember there is always 1 person in every society that goes their own way.

And there's always black budget programs...my own Agents of the Ethereals' Will (other names have applied; I've not finished building them so they're still in their nascent form) are basically something along these lines. While not psykers themselves, they wield a number of what may be for lack of a better term called "psychic artifacts" from a variety of sources.

If you want to add psykers to the Tau army, you'd have to figure out exactly what you want. You already can fudge somewhat and ask permission to use the Witch Hunter adversaries rules, for example. If you want something more specific to the Tau, that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish, since whatever you do would be setting up your own precedent for how Tau handle psychic phenomena. Alien psykers would be neat, though, and it'd be interesting to finally get some use out of the CA minor powers.

As to giving Farsight's bodyguard close combat weapons...well...I'm not really sold on Farsight being a heavily CC-oriented guy, really. But whatever floats your boat.

Yarick Zan
06-03-2007, 08:53
To get the ball rolling a little bit, its pretty much figured (as far as I can tell) that being a warp active entity, weather navigator or psyker is genetic. Genetics as we know are fickle as hell. So my point is, with those points made, isn't there a chance, no matter how remote or unlikely, that a mutation can occur and cause them to be psychicly active?

I love good healthy discussions and constructive criticism.

Yarick Zan
06-03-2007, 09:17
Bump for the sake of it.

Bregalad
06-03-2007, 10:09
Well, it not only screws the background, but giving an already strong army an extra boost, that would destroy game balance. To me, it looks like giving Tyranids power armour, so you can get a 3+ save Horde army.

Yarick Zan
07-03-2007, 00:05
I would appreciate more opinions on this subject.

The pestilent 1
07-03-2007, 00:12
To be honest with you, having another guy that can chuck shooty death around in an army laden with shooty death doesn't seem all that unbalancing but maybe I missed something profound.

I'd tend to say that the tau aren't psychic capable, but as you say they have dozens of species within their empire so simply do a "Counts as" as far as that is concerned, maybe with a Psychic power from the witch hunters dex, which would alos give you the oppotunity to use something else of that race (The adversaries tend to suck mind you, 8 pt imperial guard without any spangly gear make an army do not. Oh. They get infiltration :rolleyes: )

Anyway, Tau themselves: No.
Tau allies: Deffo!

As for home grown rules, I'd let you aslong as we went over it together for balancing issues, but then my head isn't stuck so far up my ass that its RAW.

Yarick Zan
07-03-2007, 00:16
Well see the reason why I am considering using an actual Tau and not another species in the empire is I want to add a new twist to my army. Sort of make it a totaly evil renegade commander either possessed by daemons or has entered some sort of pact with them. Sort of like Horus but didn't have enough pull to pretty much rip the Tau Empire apart.

The pestilent 1
07-03-2007, 00:20
Evil renegade Tau...

How about a Genetic hybrid?
Cloned in a vat, using some dark technology (Daemonic, Old One, Necontyr, whatever floats your boat with that) and intermixed with a Psychically charged race (More so than Humans to offset the Tau's natural inhibitions)

I'm thinking something along the lines of the.. Thing in Starcraft Brood wars (Xel-Naga was it?) Or Anubis' Kull warriors from Stargate.

Yarick Zan
07-03-2007, 00:28
Kind of what I figured. And the Earth Caste being who they are figured it might be best to put those capabilities into the hands of the Fire Caste so they can be even more effective on the battlefield. The hybrid looks like a normal Tau but is different in his actions and other things, e.g. no quarter is given, totaly massacering entire enemy forces after they have surrenderd, genocide the normal stuff not associated with with The Greater Good. This could some kind of chaotic influence because it seems like just the thing chaos would love.

The pestilent 1
07-03-2007, 00:33
Rules wise I imagine a Tau commander with adversary could be enough, modelling I don't think a battlesuit would cut it.
I have strange images of a Huge Tau with non-standard armour, maybe with traditional Tau weapons.
But to be honest, I'm getting images of a Tau clad in black armour back handing a marine across the room and then shredding another with lightning.

Yarick Zan
07-03-2007, 00:39
See I kind of see a battlesuit that has had that touch of chaos on it. You know what I am talking about. The kind of thing that when you see it in another army makes you think chaos right away. Kind of deformed (but not a crippling kind of deformation more empowering) and spikey. Trophy racks like these http://www.battlewagon-bits.com/product/43-0612 and a kind of techno-organic feel almost.

Lyinar
07-03-2007, 04:07
As for Psyker allies for the Tau, there are the Nicassar, who are apparently floating, powerfully telekinetic Polar Bears.

Keichi246
07-03-2007, 05:40
Well - I am very much in the No! camp on this one...

It has been stated in multiple background pieces that the Tau have NO psykers. No "warp presence", no navigators, no nothing... They have NO genetic tendency towards psychic powers. Near as anyone can tell - they don't have any gene structures that would lend themselves towards it... Any Tau Fire caste member would sooner grow wings and fly (due to at least a partial genetic inheritance from the Air caste) than become a psyker.

They don't travel "in" the warp - they sorta bounce off it like a skipping rock. The early experiments with the warp drive they found were disastrous (Source: BFG Armada), and the continued experimentation on Medusa V proved once and to all to the Tau that the Warp was just too dangerous to mess with. Demons have trouble even paying attention to Tau (Source: Novel - Fire Warrior) - something about them just doesn't resonate properly with the warp.

Besides - the Tau culture thrives on unity. Heck - they intentionally limit production of their best wargear, "battlesuits", just to try to limit the tendency towards "individualism". I really don't see the Earth caste going " sure we'll build him a custom battlesuit with chainsaws and such - even though it goes against all we aspire towards..."

*note * I'm utterly repulsed by the thought of Chaos Tau. Why, oh why do people have to take the "easy" route to evil? The Tau are a "civilized" evil - they don't kill you with chainswords and stuff- they simply tie you in red tape and trade agreements -until one day you realize you are a loyal slave... Why conqueor with guns when you can enslave them with patience and VCRs?

(You want Chaos - play Chaos or Dark Eldar. Leave the Tau out of it... :mad: )

The Orange
07-03-2007, 05:50
I am seeing the eventual expirementation with psykers happening, and the weapons and equipment coming fourth from this. I am seeing something like Shadowsun's XV22, except its designed more for a psyker of some sort.
Sounds like a fun idea, go for it (gives the thumbs up, :p ).


I am seeing either a genetic engineered Tau, or one of the other races, like Humans used instead.
IMO, it would be much easier for the Tau to just use one of the psychically attuned races already in the empire. Genetic experiments on Tau would take time, and be difficult, and at the end of the process, (if thier lucky) they'd get a psychically attuned Tau that woulden't really know how to use thier powers. It's probably much easier just experimenting with one of the races that already has experience using psychic powers.


If it is in a battlesuit, it has a reduced number of slots due to some sort of technology meant to help the psyker. Like for example the standard XV8 has 3 slots, the psyker variant has only 1 or 2 due to the supposed amplifiers of the equipment in the suit. It limits me to 1 or 2 weapons or 1 weapon and a support system. Also a limited number of powers, but more to the Tau's style such as an inspiring presence ability (work this out later)
Sounds good. Here's what I'm thinking, Battlesuit with one weapon, and one support system. So if you have a shooting type psychic attack, you can do that, or you can choose not to risk a PotW attack and use a regular gun. Then the secondary system would be something protective in nature, shield gen. or shield drones (which you can say monitor the psychic battlesuit).



Maybe my commander is now consorting with daemons brought on by the expirimental psyker, or maybe the psyker itself killed the commander and took his place, or the commander is possessed by daemons that came through the psyker.
Possession of a Tau by a daemon is highly unlikely to say the least, so i'd stay away from that. It's my opinion that Farsight himself is under the influence of a daemon weapon, which is not actual possession, and look at him, not very chaosy is he? I think the idea of striking a deal with a daemon makes sense. Tau don't know what daemons are, and may make the mistake of believe that maybe these daemons are really just another xenos race (that live in the warp), and that they could potentially be another subject of the Tau Empire, when in fact a daemon is really manipulating the Commander for its own purposes. A daemon lying isen't that much of a streatch of the immignation after all, and a Tau would do just about anything if they believe it's for the Greater Good, a weakness a Daemon could easily exploit.



Now my second idea. A Farsight army with a bit of a twist on the bodyguard or all the battlesuit team leaders, or all the battlesuits themselves. Giving them all some sort of close combat weapon. That way the emphasis on hand to hand fighting given by Farsight is more apparent. Limiting it to only his bodyguards would be prudent. Somthing though that makes the whole choppy choppy felt in the army. I admit it needs limitations or else it removes the Tau's biggest flaw, but I think it could really work.
How about the counter-attack USR, and Heavy Close Combat weapons (with a loss of a hard-point)? I'd tack on some pts for those abilities, but they don't seem to be too overpowering.

Yarick Zan
07-03-2007, 11:51
Ok so as the arguments go direct possession of a Tau is out. Just too much to go through to get to it. I am going to see how I can work these ideas into the army. It all sounds promising.

On the Farsight note, I am thinking somthing like him, the bodyguards given a hand to hand weapon, but in doing so they have 1 less hardpoint for weapons or support systems. Also maybe add in the counter attack not sure. I will come up with stuff after school.

The pestilent 1
07-03-2007, 13:08
Direct possession of Tau is out yeah... but what about his suit?
Techno-virus maybe? It would give you the techno organic look you wanted?

Autobot HQ
07-03-2007, 13:28
I was about to suggest the suit.

Machines of Chaos can easily be possessed, as they have no machine spirit, and no blessing of the Emperor, and all those other 'pointless' things that the Adeptus Mechanicus do.

Tau, well it's just a machine to them, with a simple AI.

So in theory, his suit could be possessed. The Commander himself would be trapped inside, whilst the Daemon controlled the suit and could then begin to manifest powers and such.

Maybe have a normal commander rules, with the Psychic Power Soul Shrive from the Witch Hunter Codex (Basically some crazy lighting power), but manifested through the suits Plasma Rifle, suitably modelled obviously. Then give him 2 normal hardpoints, cost him an extra 30pts of what he would cost, and you're about sorted.

A-HQ

Yarick Zan
08-03-2007, 01:21
Well yes I had considered a techno-daemon, but not too much. It would somewhat fit the whole idea, and it would give me the look, but I need to answer those dreaded questions, what, where, when, why, and how.

Maybe since the suit is connected to the Tau, and there is a kind of feedback system I believe, just maybe the daemon that possesses the suit has driven the commander insane with the images it has shown him. Either way I think I can figure out how to balance it out.

Maybe allow a change of the stats due to the daemon and its corruption. All this of course will cost more points than the base unit itself.

Khaine's Messenger
08-03-2007, 04:29
I would suggest something moderately expensive that takes a drone slot and has to roll randomly for its powers...stuff like replicating the effects of markerlights (at incredibly short ranges), command and control nodes (for the whole army), stealth field generators, or giving the unit hit and run, or providing a "penitent psyker"-like effect. That way, you can keep it a low-wound, low-priority model that you can plug into a variety of places in the list, almost like an Imperial Sanctioned Psyker. The drone controller would be for the artificial intelligence monitoring for perils of the warp, notifying the owner when it has to dump the psyker into a protective stupor (may no longer attack or use powers, but may move and defend in hth). Also, keep the leadership low (~7) and remember to make "no power" a possible result. Possibly a limit to the number you can have in an army, too.

As to how it looks...basically someone in old XV15-style armor (so he can have a jetpack if his "owner" is jetpack infantry), although suitably altered to fit an obviously non-Tau physiology. Remember to represent several species if you do multiples, possibly some of them with, say, wings instead of jetpacks.

IMHO this would be a nicer intro unit as opposed to a specifically constructed battlesuit.

Yarick Zan
09-03-2007, 01:57
Bump for more response

Quade Collins
09-03-2007, 02:24
What about Kroot fluffwise? In order to explain it, there are many kroot societies, the commander found one, introduced to chaos. I understand the wanting to change the rules and what not, but why not use normal tau tech effects but model them as psychic powers? Command and control node, small flying daemon on the shoulder. Personally my tau are based off of a galaxy far away. I mean yeah, its not overly original, but its a typical geek thing. did you want a whole new army idea or just something different modeling wise?