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superduperkoopatrooper
06-03-2007, 12:29
Hi, i've sometimes thought it would be fun to do an army with next to no points spent on characters and go for as many units as possible. This isn't very feasable with my empire or BoC as they both need the Ld and magic/combat support. Which army do you think can handle itself best without characters? I think dwarfs could get by with the bare minimum in small games at least.

Onisuzume
06-03-2007, 13:33
Lizardmen would fall in that catagory I guess.

Tomb Kings is a big "no".
Same goes for Vampire Counts I guess.
Chaos Mortals could do it I think.
Skaven would just run away.
As would goblins.
Orcs would be fighting amongst themselves.
Bretonnians might not need characters as much either.

sephiroth87
06-03-2007, 13:44
Bretonnians are a better army for minimum characters. They don't need magic and their peasants can use the leadership of ANY knight with a vow (which is to say, all of them). And the regular squads can break other units on their own, without any need of a character. Heck, even regular squads don't need characters to even take a magic banner!

Aelyn
06-03-2007, 14:13
I'd say Mortals of Khorne.

You can easily get by with one Hero-level character, even in 2000 points. I can quite easily see a 2K army getting by just fine with maybe 150 pts in characters?

Mortals have a good leadership on their own, their champions are almost on a par with most heroes, and they have natural magic defense meaning you don't need to waste points on characters for that purpose.

In terms of lowest points spent on characters, I can't see anything realistically beating them.

Noldo
06-03-2007, 14:14
Wood elves are other candidate.

At least in smaller games (sub 2000 points) you can get nicely with just the mandatory general. Probably feasible also in larger games, although magic defence is always a problem if you will minimise characters.

Bretonnia is very lightly reliant on characters, but since 2 characters is minimum for them, you get quite close to norm for some other armies with minimum setup.

GideonRavenor
06-03-2007, 14:15
However, Bretonnians need have a battle standard bearer, giving them a requirement of 2 characters.

TheWarSmith
06-03-2007, 14:26
I think lizardmen would function quite poorly without characters. The Ld really helps the skinks, and the flying scar vet of doom is so good it's not funny.

Reticent
06-03-2007, 15:07
There are two requirements I can think of for an army to have in order to thrive without characters:

1) Reliable leadership

2) Not completely conceding the magic phase

Off the top of my head, that's Dwarfs generally. Perhaps a few specific builds of other armies as well?

Hywel
06-03-2007, 15:26
Empire can spend very little points on characters and be successful. For around 300pts you can get your Ld9 general, your BSB and your scroll caddy - you don't need anything else.

Chaos is a prime candidate for no characters however. With mark of khorne in particular you don't even need the token scroll caddy so much. There is also no great need for combat characters considering the prowess of chaos troops and the fact that anything shy of an expensive lord does nothing for your leadership anyway.

505
06-03-2007, 15:33
dwarfs rock hard and basic good leadership.
lizardmen coldblooded so no worry bout leadership and solid fighters
HE has the leadership needed and are decent fighters
we leadership and monuverability
brets yeah the book requires 2 chars however they don't really need them

gorenut
06-03-2007, 15:43
It depends on what your criteria is for being reliant on characters. If it's strictly on points.. I think Empire actually runs fine. You just need the Ld value so for the most part you can give their characters the bare minimum of gear (which is usually what I do when constructing lists for them).

Vattendroppe
06-03-2007, 15:52
It depends. If you refer to little pts in characters, then the empire would be the best team. As been said, for about 300 pts you can get almost avery character you might want.

If it's the number of characters I'd recommend WE or dwarfs, they both have elite fighters that can do almost as well as the standard human characters and they've also got high LD. Dwarfs is good because of the 4 DD, WE can't get good magic either way so they'd do pretty good without it also.

I speak none of the chaos-tribes or cults, since I don't know much about them more than in theory.

explorator
06-03-2007, 15:55
Try out the Slayers of Karak Kadrin from SoC. One Hero for 65 points. A general is called for even though you can have an army of Ld 10 unbreakable core units.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
06-03-2007, 16:17
As far a leadership goes, I'd say dark elves dont really need characters. but most people enjoy their magic and usually take quite a few nobles. but IMO they dont really need them.

jullevi
06-03-2007, 16:32
I agree with Aevyn about Khorne. Mounted exalted champion of Khorne armed with flail costs ~150pts, and that's about all characters you need. Adding magic items is optional, but by no means necessary. Your army rarely needs leadership (being immune to psychology while frenzied) and it hits like a ton of bricks, so additional combat power is not really needed either. Your units generate heaploads of dispel dice, so you don't even need a scroll caddy character. If you want a dispell scroll, you can give it to Hellcannon!

Of course, you could add another exalted champion, aspiring champion bsb or a wargor if you like and still have your characters cost only around 300pts total.

vinush
06-03-2007, 16:32
Aargh! No scroll caddies, naughty people!

Vince.

Krog Ironclaw
06-03-2007, 18:12
I've had success with Vampire Counts at 2000 points using only a Vampire Count, moderate success anyway. And wih Beasts Ive done well with only a Doombull. TK need at least 2 to function, unless you're an idiot playing with Settra.

TheWarSmith
06-03-2007, 18:26
it hits like a ton of brickstotal.

One of these days I want to see a simulation of this paramount phrase that Khorne is often coined with.

Do high elves hit with a ton of feathers?

fracas
06-03-2007, 19:27
i've played 2250pts lizardmen with only one skink hero. does ok.

Voltaire
06-03-2007, 19:33
Lizardmen - Cold Blooded = no characters needd.

Neknoh
06-03-2007, 19:44
One of these days I want to see a simulation of this paramount phrase that Khorne is often coined with.

Do high elves hit with a ton of feathers?

Hmmmm :eyebrows:

A ton of very fluffy feathers :D

pcgamer72
06-03-2007, 22:00
Well... Gnoblar Horde characters are fairly worthless and you can get a lord for about 70 pts!

Krog Ironclaw
06-03-2007, 23:02
Lizardmen - Cold Blooded = no characters needd.

Funny you should mention Cold-Blooded....

Just this past Saturday a buddy and me played a 4000 point game. 4000 points of Vampire Counts led by a Vampire Lord vs 4000 points of Lizardmen led by Kroq-Gar. Cold Blooded didnt keep his army from hauling ass away from my Skellies.

zak
06-03-2007, 23:17
I'd have to say Khorne mortals as they don't need the leadership, won't suffer in the magic phase and have rock hard troops more than capable of dishing out the hurt in the place of the characters.

505
07-03-2007, 01:43
Funny you should mention Cold-Blooded....

Just this past Saturday a buddy and me played a 4000 point game. 4000 points of Vampire Counts led by a Vampire Lord vs 4000 points of Lizardmen led by Kroq-Gar. Cold Blooded didnt keep his army from hauling ass away from my Skellies.



theres exceptions to every rule.

they would have not done better with a charachter either...therefore they still didn't relly on chars.

Scythe
07-03-2007, 10:12
Depends... a saurus character in the front lines can add a lot of killing power.. and make sure you win combats instead of losing them...

My dark elves usually function quite well with 2 characters, around 300 points invested in them. Khorne armies, like mentioned, could get away with even less. Some people mentioned Dwarfs, but I think those might lack a bit in the hitting department in close combat if they skip on characters. Standard Dwarf warriors can take a lot of punishment, but can't really dish it out, plus Dwarfs have limited options to negate enemy static resolution once engaged. A character goes a long way in getting a few kills and winning combat.

Onisuzume
07-03-2007, 13:42
Get a Sacred Host of Tepoc and you can kiss magic users goodbye.
And that's ontop of their already impressive capabilities.
Or go with Quetzl for that slightly better armour save.
Or Tlazcotl for an immume to psychology army.
Or Tzunki for aquatic(uselss) and +1 initiative(priceless).
Chotec for better persue rolls.
Huanchi to mostly ignore difficult terrain.
Or Sotek for that extra hitting power on the charge.

Afaik, A Sacred Host of Tlazcotl gives you some of the most reliant troops possible. (even the skinks!)

Finnigan2004
07-03-2007, 13:59
I agree with the people that would go with the khornate army. They are very tough in combat with or without characters, they have good leadership, and you will be very happy with the fistfuls of dispel dice when you face an army with lots of magic.

Arkturas
07-03-2007, 15:27
For dwarfs if you skip on characters the extra killing power can be easily replaced with the elite S4 infantry (Hammerers/Ironbreakers/Longbeards) and artillery. Longbeards with their quell panic rule are also quite useful. Although not as kill orientated as Khorne they're not going to do a lot of dieing plus have the magic resistance bonus.

Onisuzume
07-03-2007, 15:52
For dwarfs if you skip on characters the extra killing power can be easily replaced with the elite S4 infantry (Hammerers/Ironbreakers/Longbeards) and artillery. Longbeards with their quell panic rule are also quite useful. Although not as kill orientated as Khorne they're not going to do a lot of dieing plus have the magic resistance bonus.
Which goes the same for a Sacred Host of Tepok. (each unit/character adds 1 dispel dice iirc) They got good close combat units with better mobility then the dwarfs.:p And can get elite S7 monsters instead of S4 infantry.(no, rephrase that, they already *have* S4 infantry)