View Full Version : Question on the Empire...

Grand Warlord
08-03-2007, 01:47
Ok, I was going through my currently army list and was looking to make some changes from old ed. to new ed. And I noticed I have no knight units in my list. My current list is :

General Of the Empire

Battle Standard Bearer

Battle Wizard lvl 2

Battle Wizard lvl 2

x30 Swordsmen

x15 Halberdier Detach.

x15 Halberdier Detach.

2 Units of x30 Halberdiers

2 Units of x15 Spearmen

2 Units of x10 Handgunners

x2 Great Cannon

x2 Mortar

Which leaves me about 55 Pts to play around with. Are knights absolutely necessary? I know my list is lacking most info but hoepfully this will be enough .. I gotta go to work.

08-03-2007, 12:39
I play with Empire quite allot, and I usually play both slow and fast pace armies. The problem with only infantry is that Empire units is rather soft and an enemy with hard hitting mobile units gets to decide when an where to strike against a slow moving force like an Empire force.

In my experience Empire works absolutely best when you bring a balanced force, I usually use my cavalry to fight in one flank and the other I play as a refused flank. If my cavalry destroy any opponents on their flank they will move in and flank the enemy centre when my infantry is drawn into combat.

I use a very well balanced army and points wise I have approximately 20% characters, 35% infantry and 25% firepower and 20% cavalry… roughly estimated.

I only use my knights in units of 6-7 with full command and my light cavalry in units of 5 with a musician and an outrider champion with a repeating pistol. I almost always concentrate all my cavalry in one flank to utterly destroy that flank and then turn them towards my centre to give them some heavy support; the light cavalry will surge forward and hit the enemy from behind.

I would also use my spearmen in a unit of 30 and divide one halberdier unit into two detachments of 15 in each instead. Halberdiers function much better as detachment than spearmen do.

Von Wibble
08-03-2007, 16:06
What size army is this? 2000?

I play 2500 and tend to only take 1 unit of knights (occasionally 2). Without characters, non inner circle knights don't have the punch to be anything other than a support unit, and with characters, more than a couple of units means you neglect your infantry and missile fire.

I take knights because they (if led well) provide an area of the battlefield that the opponent can't go into without being very careful. They can therefore do a very strong job just staring down units before deciding when and where to lend their power.

I wuoldn't say knights were essential, but otoh 4 infantry units plus detahcments would have trouble deploying and fitting onto a table whilst in combat effective positions anyway. So I would drop some infantry for knights. Also you need pistoliers, simply by virtue of using empire! They are too good not to take...

Crazy Harborc
08-03-2007, 18:00
Added movement length is a good idea, hence mounted knights. 8 is good, 10/12 is better, 5 will do in smaller games (2000pts). Check out the new Empire Outrider/Pistolier fast cav. It takes practice/game time use, but the multi shot/2 pistols and or the multi shot repeater handguns can be worth their points.....Knights are great for HtH...fast cav is for shooting with.

Grand Warlord
09-03-2007, 00:38
I went over my list and managed to fit in a unit of 6 Outriders + Champion and Hochland Long rifle for those pesky wizards... Do you think I would be better off doing 2 big blocks of infantry and adding some Knights? if so I would probably add my General to the knights and probably downgrage the BSB to lead 2 units of 30 swordsmen plus Deatchments.

Would this me more competitive? TBH i havent played since the new edition came out so to say I am rusty is not even close to the truth.

Edit: I want to stick to a Witch Hunters Theme (a build off my WH warband from MH) but I dont know how to deal with magic besides taking scroll cadies. Also I am going to completely revamp my list and post another list hopefullyt in the next couple of days here or probably in the army lists section.. I just want to fine tune it and then start purchasing the models.

Grand Warlord
10-03-2007, 12:38
Ok one more question before i post a 2nd attempt:

are 2 level 2 battle wizards too much magic? From a GT perspective.

10-03-2007, 16:04
If you are going with a Witch Hunter theme, a must would be the Arch Lector or Warrior Priests. In my opinion, they are a must have for any Empire Army. At least one or the other, if not both. And for a Witch Hunter Theme, what unit is better than Flagellants?? They Scream "Repent!! " For Crying out loud!
I know you are revamping your list at the moment, but your original list was a little too infantry driven. You need some more mobile units, like Knight and Fast Cav.
No, 2 level 2 wizards are fine. Just right for magic defense and offense. And don't forget, Arch lectors give you 2 dispel dice and Priest gives you 1. So, Arch Lector, Warrior Priest 2 lvl 2 wizards = 7 dispel dice. Even makes a Dwarf General go "Wow"!

Grand Warlord
11-03-2007, 04:36
Argh this is going to be the end of me ... 2 Battle Wizards or 2 warrior Priests?

11-03-2007, 16:43
In support of the deployment remark: your infantry, while flavourful, will be a huge battleline, and if there's any terrain at all to break up the table, you won't be able to get it all working together, more than likely.

I would drop one of the halberdier blocks, merge the two spearman units into one of 30, move a halberdier detachment to the spearman unit, and add 5 vanilla knights and 5 pistoliers (or outriders).
Drop a Mortar to free up points and the special slot (for the light cavalry). Drop the other mortar if you want to add a second detachment to your infantry, in which case I would suggest handgunners (or crossbowmen, if you feel they fit your style better. I'm fond of them myself, but the handgunners' numbers are better).

11-03-2007, 16:45
Argh this is going to be the end of me ... 2 Battle Wizards or 2 warrior Priests?

Why not use an Arch Lector on Altar + Warrior Priest and 2 lv2 Battle Wizards?

Very good on the magic defense side and ok on the magic offense too.

Crazy Harborc
12-03-2007, 01:47
By the by, those mortars don't do the average amount of damage done to T3 armies when used against T4 armies. How many potential enemies have T4 units to field against you. Orcs and Dwarves, not to mention Chaos. The 5 incher templet is a good coverage but S3 converting on T4 victims is not soooo hot.