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Fastforward rlz
10-03-2007, 01:17
Vampire Counts Army (Blood Dragon specific list from back of army book)

Blood Dragon Vampire Lord 412 Pts
Lance, Shield
Crown of the Damned
Heart Piercing
Red Fury
Honour or Death

Blood Dragon Vampire Thrall 150 Pts
Blood Dragon; Barding, Lance, Heavy Armour
Heart Piercing
Enchanted Shield
Talisman of Protection, Nightmare

Wight Lord 166 Pts
Battle Standard Bearer, Barding, Heavy Armour
Hell Banner (causes terror), Nightmare


12 Black Knights 410 Pts
Barding, Lance, Heavy Armour, Shields, full command
Banner of the Barrows (Wrights always hit on 3+ regardless or enemy ws)

11 Black Knights 340 Pts
Barding, Lance, Heavy Armour, Shield, full command

15 Grave Guard 254 Pts
Halberd; Heavy Armour, full command

15 Skeleton Bowmen 150 Pts

20 Skeleton Warriors 170 Pts
Standard

20 Skeleton Warriors 195 Pts
Spears, Standard; Musician

Total Army Cost: 2247

As you maybe can tell I'd like to make my army themed off of bretonians (i'm using conversions of bretonian models). This is a 2250 pt. list but I'm not going to be useing it for tournaments or anything. Just to have fun and play with, becides it's illegal anyway. I've heard how Black Knights are usually best at 5-7 in a unit but to me it just seems that my expensive banners are put to better use this way (not to mention unit stregnth). I know that the Hell Banner is expensive but b/c I'll be playing my friends Ogers the most I'd like to have a unit to cause fear and againts my brother's Orc army I hope to have units breaking just being close to me. lets see I took the bs 2 bowmen because i think skeleton bowmen would be cool (I'm going to use Bretonian bowman w/conversions as models) and to have some missile fire. The Skeletons are my special choices and will bulk out my army. I want my Lord to own in combat basically joining the terror causing unit of black nights. I dont think the crown of the dammned will really hurt me as I only fail my LD with an 11 or 12 and will also make it interesting if i dont pass it. Heart peirceing is a must because even though I'll mostly ever need 3's to hit I still roll one's and two's often. Red fury I chose b/c it's fluffy and I had 10 pts more to spend (could save my hide up against a tyrant or brusier someday also). The Thrall is basically for the same thing; joining the other unit of black knights. I like his ability to hit and armor save (1+ I believe). The Wight Lord is to provide the banner and some combat ability. He will join the first unit of black knights along with the lord. I'd like to thank you ahead of time for the time and effort for reading this and possibly posting any help you may like to add. Any pointers, tips, experience ect. will be greatly apreciated.

-Alex

dominic_carrillo
10-03-2007, 01:32
good list, i love the crown of the damned. its a killer item. let me know how those bowmen do ;). ive read the list and BS 2 doesnt seem too good. you should probably scrap that unit and add to the hand to hand skeleton units.

as for the wight lord, put him with the thrall and his unit

Fastforward rlz
10-03-2007, 01:40
yes Bs 2 Is pretty bad but with a good hill i can get 15 shots off and do atleast some damage. I'll probaly proxy them more before i buy the bowmen. So put the thrall and wight lord together causeing terror and hitting on 3+? I kinda wanted to even it out more, but maybe.

dominic_carrillo
10-03-2007, 08:00
if you have a boner for skeletons with bows you should get some tomb kings. those bowmen rock hard, and they can actually kill stuff

Fastforward rlz
10-03-2007, 16:18
ha no. I really want to do VC though. I don't really care that much about the shooting.

Fastforward rlz
12-03-2007, 17:03
*bump* yes i'm bumping myself

Von Wibble
12-03-2007, 18:42
The Grave Guard unit looks small and expensive. Not a good combination.

The skeleton bowmen are basically a good way of giving your opponent a points advantage. At BS2 S3 you get about 1 wound per volley (assuming all are shooting). To put it another way, they are worse than high elf archers, which is really saying something. If you want shooting with skeletons proxy them as counts as dogs of war archers...(only the best archers are reanimated in this role??)

Besides this the list looks like it will struggle if your 2 hammers are compromised. Which isn't that hard to achieve with redirection, and they are even beatable considering that they can't flee. Whilst normally I think small isn't as important for Undead (unit strength being 1 reason), here I think 1 big unit (barrows) and 2 small units would be better. Lose the Hell banner for sword of kings or War banner because of smaller unit size.

Fastforward rlz
20-03-2007, 20:56
Yeah I think i'll drop the bowmen and maybe just drop the graveguard down to skeletons or add to them. Should i do twenty five then? Also what if i just give them hand weapons (I read a thread saying that halberds are the worst weapon in the game and it does seem that way...) I'll also split the Black knights up more

dominic_carrillo
20-03-2007, 20:59
i think the grave gaurd are good as a support unit, to move it and hit the flank of a tough opponent.
whenever i play them in a huge unit they get shot to pieces.

Fastforward rlz
20-03-2007, 23:40
Yeah maybe i'll see how it goes but what about thier weapons?

dominic_carrillo
21-03-2007, 01:46
i like the 3+ save so i take HW and shield. the halberd is a bit expensive.

Fastforward rlz
21-03-2007, 16:19
wait wouldn't it be a 4+? Heavy armor and shield? But yes they are lots of points, I'm thinking of using the models as skeletons with spears. I have the Bretonian men at arms models.

eleveninches
21-03-2007, 16:39
id split the black knights into units of 5-6, unless the blood dragon list allows you to deploy in lance formation.

Lord Dan
21-03-2007, 16:46
It's a 4+ save against shooting. They would have their bonus for having a hand weapon+shield in CC, yeilding a 3+ armor save.

Grave guard are expensive, and rarely make back their points. As the banner of the barrows should be going with your black knights, they will be left needing a 4+ to hit almost everything. Personally I never take them, and with the look of the rest of your list I would drop them and the bowmen for another unit of black knights.

With the 50-ish points remaining, boost both units of skeletons up to at least 25. The only way they can possibly win a combat is through outnumbering and causing fear.

Fastforward rlz
21-03-2007, 17:26
Yes I Agree. I've rewriten my list with out the grave guard and smaller units of black knights. The Trial list does allow lance formation and I was thinking of doing maybe 9 knights in each unit; which would give me 3 ranks (18 unit stregnth). Maybe 12 for the Barrows unit. Ok about the wight lord since I've decided to take the Hell banner away should i give him only the sword of kings and nothing else? Maybe the 5+ wardsave? Actually that may be to many points...Or maybe a different standard? just the +1 combat resolution??

dominic_carrillo
21-03-2007, 20:18
It's a 4+ save against shooting. They would have their bonus for having a hand weapon+shield in CC, yeilding a 3+ armor save.

Grave guard are expensive, and rarely make back their points. As the banner of the barrows should be going with your black knights, they will be left needing a 4+ to hit almost everything. Personally I never take them, and with the look of the rest of your list I would drop them and the bowmen for another unit of black knights.



i guess it takes practice because my grave gaurd are the commando unit in my army. theyve taken out stegadons, temple gaurd, knights, chaos warriors, the toughest sons of bitches in the game, and have come out victorious.
you just need to be careful with them. you cant raise them back from the dead, they are a tad slow, but like every army's elite infantry they will win with the right amount of support.