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View Full Version : Balanced (?) Empire Force - 2,000 Points



UberDrive
10-03-2007, 20:09
Characters (545)

Empire General (General) (111 pts)
Armor of Meteoric Iron, Great Weapon

Captain (138 pts)
Battle Standard Bearer, Griffon Standard, Full Plate

Warrior Priest (146 pts)
Rod of Command, Heavy Armor, Shield

Battle Wizard (150 pts)
Level 2, Dispel Scroll, Power Stone

Core (925 pts)

24 Swordsmen (169 pts)
Full Command

25 Swordsmen (175 pts)
Full Command

26 Spearmen (176 pts)
Shields, Full Command

-Detachment of 10 Halberdiers (50 pts)
-Detachment of 10 Free Company (50 pts)

10 Hangunners (100 pts)
Marksman, Repeater Handgun

10 Hangunners (105 pts)
Marksman, Hochland Long Rifle

10 Huntsmen (100 pts)

Special (462 pts)

8 Knights (248 pts)
Inner Circle, Full Command

5 Pistoliers (114 pts)
Outrider, Repeater Pistol, Musician

Great Cannon (100 pts)

Rare (110 pts)

Helblaster Volley Gun (110 pts)

Grand Total: 2042 pts

Okay, so I'm actually a bit over. Some thoughts:

-A pretty easy way to get down to 2k would be to drop the two Marksmen and guns in the handgunners units (-45 pts). I think they're cool models and bitz, but are they effective enough to be worth taking? I mean, 3 handgunners < a marksman w/ repeater handgun in point value, but I guess a marksmen gives you a narrower line, for what that's worth. Also, if I don't have upgrades, I can make each handgunner unit a detachment.

-I have the option of giving a unit of state troops a magic banner, as well as the knights. These will probably vary depending on the army I'm facing (e.g. War Banner, Arcane Warding, or Steel Standard for the Knights, depending on opponent), but any suggestions there?

-Am I spending too much on characters? What regiments should each character join? What detachment/parent combos should I use?

-Regarding the overall list: This is basically made up of the miniatures I have (hence the 24, 25, 26 infantry regiments), so things might not be perfect. But in general, how big should these blocks of infantry be? ~25 seems like the minimum size, but I'm considering going over thirty. Strength in numbers, after all.

Discuss.

Sanjuro
10-03-2007, 22:12
I think your best bet for coming below 2000 is to reduce the number of knights to 6.

8 Knights is probably the worst number you can have them in - no rank bonus and only 4 can come in base contact to attack. I say: always run knights at least 5 wide. 6 is a nice supporting unit, but for that I'd also remove all command models and degrade them to non-inner circle.

That will free up about 110-115 points or so, which will give you about 70 pts to play with before you hit the 2000 mark. I'd definitly try to find the points to add a mortar to the list, they can be very useful.

26 infantrymen is a bit of an odd number, but it can't hurt. If you want to know where you can shave some points off to be able to add that mortar, I'd do that here. Let me just say that I particularly like that Warrior priest with the rod of command, a very nice character that has tons of uses. Magic defense, bound spell, leadership, dirty tricks (the rod), the works. Why not give him a great weapon though, so he can choose if he wants to go offensive? Just a thought.

In all, I think the list is very nice and, as you say, balanced. Looks like it would be fun to play against!

Crube
11-03-2007, 10:20
Looks a nice list.

I would reduce the unit of 26 infantry to 24, to run a character with them, as wel as reduce the 25 strong unit to 24 for the same reason, so that all infantry can have max ranks at 5 wide.

The Knights unit is a problem. I'd either do as Sanjuro says and reduce them to 6, with no command as a support unit, or try and ge tthem up to a unit of 10 to use as a stronger unit, with a +1 rank bonus.

Maybe drop them being inner circle, add 1 knight, and give the BSB or general a horse...

The marksmen etc are cool models, and i think the fluff bhind them is cool, but I too tend to run out of points to include them, and they're among the first things to be dropped...

Character wise, I think you have a nice balance. Plenty of magic defence. I'm not a fan of Magic heavy offence on Empire armies, so big thumbs up there...

The only other thing I like to do is have missile troops as well as infantry as detatchments, so they can stand and shoot at an enemy charging their parent unit...

All in all though, a nice balanced list. Shold be fun.

Parka boy
11-03-2007, 17:53
One Hochland Long Rifle wont do anything you need at least 2 but best 3 to do anything worth while in a game.

UberDrive
11-03-2007, 18:40
Thanks for the feedback, guys.


I think your best bet for coming below 2000 is to reduce the number of knights to 6.

Yeah, I've been fielding them in rows of 5 in the front, and 3 in the back. I'm kinda obliged to keep them all, as they're the first regiment I finished.


try and ge tthem up to a unit of 10 to use as a stronger unit, with a +1 rank bonus.

That's definitely an option. I think the BSB needs to carry the Griffon Standard (is it true there's going to be a model for one?), but I guess any of the other three characters could mount up. I think I'd like to keep the General (w/ Ld 9) in a big block of infantry as well. Quick rules question, does the Warrior Priest confer "Hatred" to the horses in a unit (via Righteous Fury)? Maybe the Wizard could mount up, pick out a Speculum and go Champion hunting.

By the way, what Lore do you think I should take for the Wizard? I'm leaning pretty heavily towards Heavens, as it seems to offer the best balance between rerolling and magic missiles. Then again, an aggro Fire Wizard would be pretty fun as well (with the Fiery Sword spell, he doesn't even need a Speculum). I guess I'll wait 'til the plastic kit comes out...


I'd definitly try to find the points to add a mortar to the list, they can be very useful.

I'm not a huge fan of Mortars; they don't really seem to do enough casualties to cause Panic on their own. I'm also a bit wary from resembling a "gun line," and two artillery + 20 handgunners seems to be enough for now. Then again, I do own the model...

But speaking of shooting, is it worth spending a hundred points on 10 Huntsmen? I've got the models, but seems pretty pricy...they could be Greatswords or Flagellants...


Let me just say that I particularly like that Warrior priest with the rod of command, a very nice character that has tons of uses. Magic defense, bound spell, leadership, dirty tricks (the rod), the works. Why not give him a great weapon though, so he can choose if he wants to go offensive? Just a thought.

Thanks, I kinda stole the idea from White Dwarfers, who seem to like the combo. Can the Warrior Priest can take a hand weapon/shield and great weapon, and then switch between the two (in the first round of each combat, of course)? I guess there wouldn't be a reason not to, then.


I would reduce the unit of 26 infantry to 24, to run a character with them, as wel as reduce the 25 strong unit to 24 for the same reason, so that all infantry can have max ranks at 5 wide.

Y'know, I was actually considering increasing the regiments to, like, 30+ I mean, the common soldier is so darn cheap in points, there doesn't seem to be any reason not to. Again, those weird unit numbers are a product of what I have (20 new Swordsmen + 19 old Swordsmen + some old Spearmen from the old starter set). But anyhow, I've still gotta assemble + paint, like, half of them.


The only other thing I like to do is have missile troops as well as infantry as detatchments, so they can stand and shoot at an enemy charging their parent unit...

There are a few reasons I don't think the Handgunners should be a detachment. If they move (to keep up with a parent unit), they can't shoot. Also, if they're taken as a detachment, you can't upgrade them to Marksmen, etc, although I'm not sure if that's the right option anymore.

But yeah, these are pretty minor considerations, and I'm sure I can switch things around based on opponent, and after some gaming experience. Just gotta get it all painted...

Kimi
11-03-2007, 18:41
That list is very similar to my current list. I say keep the knights at 8 men, I run them with a front of six, and two to be shot down before combat. I play against Skaven a lot, so there's good reason to have a wide front but you can gain from dropping them down to six against other armies.

Drop the marksmen from the handguns and the huntsmen down to 5 men. That'll save some points. Add a detachment of 10 Free Company on two a unit with the points from the huntsmen.

Von Wibble
11-03-2007, 19:46
Handguns as a detachment for a defensive unit are good - the marksman isn't worth it unless you really want a hochland long rifle. I would make both units detachments and drop the marksmen. Imo any foot unit should have a missile and combat detachment. Archers are fine as a missile detachment if you want to advance.

The outrider on the pistoliers isn't as good an option as an extra pistolier. Unless you happen to have bought a box of 5 of course!

Griffon Standard bsb won't last long with a 4+ save. Either mount him up (you can stiull put him in a foot unit), or if this is against your sense of aesthetics (as it is mine) lose the griffon standard.

Your characters seem very minimised. This can work as an approach but imo for a few extra points I prefer to give my general the edge against hero level characters of other armies. I tend to play 2500pts and spend about 750 on characters at most.

Pistoliers are better than huntsmen imo. Get a second unit and drop the huntsmen.

rexim
11-03-2007, 21:42
IMO: you need atleast 2 scrolls if you only have 4 dd, and if you dont want that a wizard staff would be better then a stone. You can then throw with 4 dices each turn.
I would make the hunts men to detatchment archers used for standing in the way.
if you drop 2 knights, and their comand, and marks men to both your handgunners you would free up enough points for an extra cannon. 1 cannon is easy to evade or send som flyers after, but if you have 2 it is much harder to evade and you can for the most get one of thouse nice flank shoots
i think that u should drop the griffon banner and instead take the stuborn banner on a unite, letting your bsb take a Sword of might
sorry for my bad spelling, i hope u all understand

dominic_carrillo
11-03-2007, 23:13
there are universal strategems with Knights. A big unit (10) will kill alot, and get a rank bonus, but if they get beat, thats a ton of point down the drain. your best bet is really to play smaller units (maybe 2), that way the game isnt over if one unit dies.