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drgabe
25-07-2005, 21:36
After a long glorious campaign with my skaven army, it was time to change pace and fight with noble (sorta) and more direct (sorta) army... with less fire power (most definately!). After finding a great deal locally, I have come into posession of a large Bretonnian army. First things first, making an army list the King would be proud of!

With making my list, a couple of rules that I wanted to follow.
One is Grail Knights: seems simple enough, but I love the fluff, the models, and the rules around these models. I know that some consider them pricey, but to me they are simply stunning.
Two Grail Relique: if the fluff behind the grail knights is wonderfull, then these crazed loonies take the cake (and feed it to thier walking gods, the grail knight). They are everything that I love about the WFB universe. Plus having a stubborn unit on the table is never a bad thing. The models are great, but they do cost an aspiring warlord considerably.

However, those two units were to be the backbone of the army. So take this army list apart and tell me what you think. However, you can't violate the first two rules!

Lord: Grail Vow, 0+ reroll armor kit
Grail Knights: x4 with full command

Grail Relique: 16 total models

Paladin with tress of isoulde
Paladin BSB with Warbanner
Damsel with dispell scroll and chalice of malfuer (lvl 2)
Knights of the Realm x6 with full command

KotR x9 with full command

Knights Errant x5 with musician and Cavalier
Knights Errant x5 with musician and Cavalier

Men @ Arms: 16 with full command
Bowmen Skirmishers: x10
Damsel on Foot: 2x dispell scrolls

Pegasus Knights: x3 with full command


Tactics: Magic defense with two damsels, anything else is a bonus (gave her lvl 2 with extra points, but should put them elsewhere). Errant Knights used a "heavy" light cav... fleeing and flanking. I'd use light cav if I had them, but I don't so these are a poor man's substitute. Plus a 2+ save is always handy.

The foot troops are meant to hold up the middle, get charged and allow the larger units of knights to flank. Against opponents wary of this tactic, allowing the knights to charge and then counter charging with foot troops in the flank would be my tactic then.

Comments? Questions? Rotten Tomatoes?

Griefbringer
26-07-2005, 13:28
Including full command both for the pegasus knights and Grail knights is a bit touchy - those standards can make for easy victory points to the enemy if you play with the VP rules. Also the commands eat up relatively lot of points in so small units.

Da Imp
28-07-2005, 13:02
In my experience having less than 6 grail knights is a bit of a waste. They tend to act as targets for all of the enemies shooting and magic. Personally I field units of up to 9 grail knights which makes them large enought to absorb more damage before getting into combat and usually obliterating all before them.

The Grail Reliquae is a must take for me as well. I field it with 18 battle pilgrims. This is to give it more absorbtion of damage when it gets into HTH. I use the GR as the centre of my army to hold up the enemy and absorb damage while the knights go about doing what they do best.

Ok, so for me those 2 units are must takes for looks and usefulness :) Now the rest of your list. I would ditch the Men at Arms. Rather take more archers than these guys. Generally they are too slow and too weak to do much in battle. I would rather take 2 units of 12 archers - maybe give them musicians if you have some poits to spare. I have found that my archers often out perform themselves and take down much more than their points value. Dwarven troll slayers and anything unarmoured are prime targets for your archers.

I would also reduce both your spell casters to level 1. As an offensive weapon Bret magic usually doesn't do much so the points spent on making the damsels level 2 is a waste. If you can put both damsels on horseback and hide them in your units.

I don't have much experience with Errant knights so I can't comment on them, but if you want to use them as bait / fleeing and flanking troops I would suggest rather taking 2 units of Mounted Yeomen. They have the advantage of being fast cavalry and the ability to shoot which can make them very annoying to face. Having dropped your Errant knights though, you will need to add another unit of Knights of the Realm to your list.

Lastly I would suggest taking your Lord out of the Grail Knigts unit. They don't need his help. Either stick him in the Realm Knights unit or possibly mount him on a Pegasus and use him with the Pegasus knights to harass the rear or your opponent. (please no gay jokes! ;))

MisterHeavy
28-07-2005, 14:12
Lord: Grail Vow, 0+ reroll armor kit
Grail Knights: x4 with full command

Grail Relique: 16 total models

Paladin with tress of isoulde
Paladin BSB with Warbanner
Damsel with dispell scroll and chalice of malfuer (lvl 2)
Knights of the Realm x6 with full command

KotR x9 with full command

Knights Errant x5 with musician and Cavalier
Knights Errant x5 with musician and Cavalier

Men @ Arms: 16 with full command
Bowmen Skirmishers: x10
Damsel on Foot: 2x dispell scrolls

Pegasus Knights: x3 with full command


Comments? Questions? Rotten Tomatoes?

Couple of comments

The KOTR unit of 6: is it getting joined by 3 characters? I'm a little nervous about that. It's a bit of the eggs-in-one-basket kind of thing. Consider spreading the combat characters out at least.

Knights Errant: IMO, at least one 9-strong unit of KEs with the Errantry banner is a must-have. Being cheaper than KotRs, as well as S6 and fearless on the turn they charge, they are very nice to have.

As said before, the banner is optional on the PKs. I would personally keep the musician, as you want to be able to flee if needed with those guys.

I too would ditch the MAA for more bowmen. A single unit of 20 skirmishers can actually accomplish something. 10 bowmen just aren't going to throw enough dice to cause any significant damage.

As for your BSB, consider dropping the warbanner and giving him a magic lance. Warbanner gives +1 combat res, but so does killing an extra enemy. I will sometimes run wyrmlance + virtue of the joust on him. And yes, you -can- give your BSB a magic lance. He doesn't need to have the option of a mundane weapon of the same type. As long as it's not a shield, or a 2-handed weapon, you're good to go.

Consider dropping your other paladin. You have 5 characters, which ties up a lot of points. The power of Brets is in the knights, and you'll need every one you can get your hands on. Just a suggestion.

I'd either go with 2 lv 2, or 2 lv 1 wizards. Lv2 is nice because they can throw 3 dice, and lore of life is quite nice after the update. If you're going defense only, drop the wiz level and buy your BSB a virtue or put it towards another unit of knights.

I have never played with Grail Knights, so I'm not sure how they'd function, but I would greatly recommend taking more than 4 of them. Remember that they die just as easily as regular knights, and they're sure to attract the fire of just about all the shooting & magic your opponent has to offer. 4 wounds later and your lord is all by himself.

For those 2 5-man KE units. Go ahead and field 6 in each if you can to get a rank bonus. Worth the points IMO.

Good luck, and welocme to Bretonnia :D

drgabe
08-08-2005, 12:25
Thanks all for the suggestions and ideas. A couple of things that I am doing while working on a new list. First off, Taking the banners out of the PK and KE's are a must. They are there to help CR with flank attacks.

Secondly, the KE's are meant to provide flanks and to pick off the rare lone character or skirmisher unit, but most to flee from charges. I hope they never have to take on a combat by themselves.

Thirdly, I will drop both mages to lvl 2, magic defense only for now. After reading last months WD article on Lore of Life, I have some ideas of maybe being more aggresive (since we usually use lots of terrian in our games).

Lastly, add more than one more to the GK is more risky than protection to me. Not to mention more expensive since I already have the models and dont wont to buy more!

Thanks all for some great ideas... I am off to work on the updated list and will come back for more help.

drgabe
10-08-2005, 03:27
Here is version 2.0 of the list... thanks for all of the advice and suggestions:

Lord (0+ save, re-roll; V. Joust, Gauntlet of the Duel)
Damsel (mounted, dispell scroll x2)
Knights of the Realm x7 (Full Command)

Paladin BSB (V. Empathy, Sword of Might)
Damsel (Dispell scroll)
KotR x7 (Champ, music)

Knights Errant x5 (champ, music)
Knights Errant x5 (champ, music)
Men at Arms x16 (music, stand)
Men at Arms x16 (music, stand)
Grail Relique x16 total models

Grail Knights x5 (full command)
Pegasus Kniths x3 (music, champ)

Paladin on Pegasus w/ V. Purity



Two units of commoner core with the relique and flanking Errant Knights. Two large units of Knights of the Realm, with the eggs in basket spread around more evenly this time. :) Still going with 5 grail knights at the moment, may have to change that in the future. Not sure how to arm a paladin on royal pegasus, but there he is.
Could play with the commands, particularly of the commoner core to get a few more points. LMK what you think!

Da Imp
10-08-2005, 08:08
I feel you may have too many units trying to get into combat. Personally I would still drop the 2 units of men at arms for 2 units of 12 archers, which should leave you with enough points for a magic weapon for the Paladin on pegasus.
But even so, it looks like a well balanced force although slightly combat heavy :)