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stashman
12-03-2007, 02:11
A warboss orc has this:

Bashas Bloodaxe: Frenzy, can't loose it
Guzzlas Battle Brew: Rolls subject to Stupidity


What over rules the other? Frenzy or Stupidity.

kruzkal
12-03-2007, 02:20
In the 7th edition Immune to Psychology does not includes Frenzy nor Stupidity. Therefore both rules apply.

stashman
12-03-2007, 02:35
In the 7th edition Immune to Psychology does not includes Frenzy nor Stupidity. Therefore both rules apply.


Okej? But here is an exampel: test for stupidity. failed. move 2 inch forward. now check for frenzy (after charges declared). what unit is within charge distance.

Hmm...

kruzkal
12-03-2007, 02:46
Beginning of the turn, check for Stupidity. Assume failed.

Charge part of Movement Phase, check for Frenzy range. Assume in range. Declare charge.

Compulsory part of Movement Phase, move the unit at half speed directly forward.

Move charger part of Movement Phase, move the remainder movement towards target.

monkeyboyalpha
12-03-2007, 02:52
A warboss orc has this:

Bashas Bloodaxe: Frenzy, can't loose it
Guzzlas Battle Brew: Rolls subject to Stupidity


What over rules the other? Frenzy or Stupidity.

Actualy both apply, but here is where is gets a tab complicated.

Stupidity tests are taken at the start of the turn (after Terror), from that point on you will be stupid for the remainder of the turn and all the usual penalties will apply to you.

Normaly, the next thing you can do with the stupid model is only to move him in the compulsary moves part of the phase, as described under stupidity. After that your stupidity will affect all other phases of the game, shooting, tragic magic, etc...

Now this is where the Frenzy causes a glitch, under the rules for stupidity "Units that failed their stupidity test cannot voluntarily declare charges, shoot and cannot cast spells for that turn", (page 52 pshychology)

Now when you frenzy you do not voluntarily declare charges, frenzied models automaticaly declare charges, so even though you are stupid you will still do your charge measurement in the charges phase, if you are within charge range of an enemy you will auto charge them and the stupidity will be lifted for the duration of the combat, then its back to business as usual...

If no enemies are in charge range you will simply be stupid until the start of the next turn.

Note, if you get charged in the enemy turn, your stupidity will be automaticaly lifted as the moment you enter close combat, via whatever means, the stupidity is lifted.

So, Frenzy and Stupidity isn't all bad, as long as the character in question isn't really needed for any other other phase than the combat phase, as falling under stupidity will mess up all other phases of the turn...



MBA

monkeyboyalpha
12-03-2007, 02:54
Poop, he beat me to it :confused: :D



MBA

kruzkal
12-03-2007, 02:57
Actually. It all depends on whether you consider Frenzy as inducing a compulsory charge, or a compulsory move. For example we interpreted when to move the chargers differently at the moment.

monkeyboyalpha
12-03-2007, 03:02
Page 52, Frenzy, para 2, just after the brackets...

"If so the frenzied unit must declare a charge against that enemy. The player has no choice in the matter, the unit will automaticaly make its charge move."

So, yeah, a frenzied model auto charges against an enemy in charge range.



MBA

T10
12-03-2007, 10:28
The compulsory movement (Stupidity) fouls up the charge move (Frenzy).

Frenzy triggers a charge when the subject unit can charge. In this case Stupidity limits the character's move to a half move and movement in a straight line. Finally, as a single US 1 model he will make this move in a random direction.

Frenzy does not provide a convenient way out for Stupid models.


A few comments:


Okej? But here is an exampel: test for stupidity. failed. move 2 inch forward. now check for frenzy (after charges declared). what unit is within charge distance.

Hmm...

Incorrect: You do not move the model twice. In this case it's either compulsory movement or charge.


Beginning of the turn, check for Stupidity. Assume failed.

Charge part of Movement Phase, check for Frenzy range. Assume in range. Declare charge.

Compulsory part of Movement Phase, move the unit at half speed directly forward.

Move charger part of Movement Phase, move the remainder movement towards target.

Incorrect. You do not move part of your movement as compulsory movement and then "the remaining" as a charge. When stupid your entire move is made at half speed, so moving forward half your movement uses up your entire move.

EDIT: This is conjecture. I assume the movement phase to be the primary time frame. A unit making a normal move (e.g. a Man moving 4") spends the entire phase moving. A charging unit or marching unit moves faster (M x 2). A Stupid unit moves more slowly (M x 1/2).



Actualy both apply, but here is where is gets a tab complicated.

Now when you frenzy you do not voluntarily declare charges, frenzied models automaticaly declare charges, so even though you are stupid you will still do your charge measurement in the charges phase, if you are within charge range of an enemy you will auto charge them and the stupidity will be lifted for the duration of the combat, then its back to business as usual...



So, yeah, a frenzied model auto charges against an enemy in charge range.


Essentially correct, except that Stupidity drastically limits your charge range.


Actually. It all depends on whether you consider Frenzy as inducing a compulsory charge, or a compulsory move. For example we interpreted when to move the chargers differently at the moment.

Frenzy is a compulsory charge declaration and the actual charge move is made at the same time as other charges.

-T10

Gorbad Ironclaw
12-03-2007, 10:51
As T10 says, Frenzy doesn't override the movement part of stupidity. You will only charge if you are in charge range when your frenzy, and charge range when your stupid is only those unit you would stumble into when you make your half M movement straight ahead.

Just like any other form of compulsory movement would restrict his ability to make frenzy charges as well.

kruzkal
12-03-2007, 10:56
That would be common sense. However, nowhere in the rule book does it say that once a unit has made a compulsory move, it may not resolve an already declared charge.

DeathlessDraich
12-03-2007, 11:14
pg 12 " During the movement phase, units can move up to their movement allowance in inches"

pg 32 Stupidity "Any enemy units encountered are automatically charged except the charger will move only at half its normal move rate..."

A unit subjected to Stupidity has a modified movement allowance and it cannot move more than this.

The rest has been explained by T10 and monkeyboy alpha.

stashman
13-03-2007, 02:41
What have I stired up!!!

Hope this will happen at a Tournamnet or a GT. Will certainly give headaches.

Negativemoney
13-03-2007, 12:19
DD and T10 are correct on this issue.